/tg/Station 13

defibrillator is basically worthless imo

got nerfed to hell and back

Good. Death shouldn't be inconsequential. You can still pretty consistently defib people that died accidentally, which is the most important.

Lumbermancer wrote:Good. Death shouldn't be inconsequential. You can still pretty consistently defib people that died accidentally, which is the most important.

>die
>ok i'll just be an ashwalker now

So much consequence. The argument doesn't really hold weight anymore.
I'd rather station crew come back as station crew than as a drone or a posibrain or whatever.

Lets make cloning take less than 10 minutes then.

Cheridan wrote:snib

But you can't have a cake and eat it too.

If you buff defibs, cloning would be rendered useless again. Don't you remember how it was when defibs were introduced? Or even after nerf, when people simply used healing patches on corpses to enable defib?

Killing anyone as an antag and making sure they remain dead was a challenge in itself. Also something paranoia something.

It takes like five, but getting your gear back and regaining your bearings on the round is part of the clone experience.

Defib kill should be faster though

Kor wrote:Lets make cloning take less than 10 minutes then.

I think I mentioned this before in coderbus, but I think what would be best is if we made defibs better again, by removing the brute damage limits and raising the time limit. And then just nix cloning.* Then you have a system that punishes murderboning (since those 20 victims just left lying out in the halls can be revived very quickly after the rampager's inevitable demise) and rewards having some subtlety. This is also even better as a player, since after 3 or however many minutes you can say "Welp it's too late for me now" and explore ghost role options instead of praying for the rest of the round for someone to find your body.

*(or make it quite prohibitive at least, like requiring resources instead of being free).

Cheridan wrote:

Kor wrote:Lets make cloning take less than 10 minutes then.

I think I mentioned this before in coderbus, but I think what would be best is if we made defibs better again, by removing the brute damage limits and raising the time limit. And then just nix cloning.* Then you have a system that punishes murderboning (since those 20 victims just left lying out in the halls can be revived very quickly after the rampager's inevitable demise) and rewards having some subtlety. This is also even better as a player, since after 3 or however many minutes you can say "Welp it's too late for me now" and explore ghost role options instead of praying for the rest of the round for someone to find your body.

*(or make it quite prohibitive at least, like requiring resources instead of being free).

tfw this is actually a great idea
It would be great if it was made well and aside from defibs it is very hard to revive a guy unless you borg them or people do crazy shit like use a magicarp from xenobio or use the strange reagent thing from chemistry or something
only problem is rip potato people but death is way too forgiving

ShadowDimentio wrote:It takes like five, but getting your gear back and regaining your bearings on the round is part of the clone experience.

Defib kill should be faster though

It takes 5 minutes of cloning, then you gotta go through cyro (also pretty damn slow), then gathering all your crap, then begging someone for mannitol, then going and eating a ton because cryo made you starving. If you're unlucky you need to go get a new ID and such as well.

Spending 10 minutes respawning/watching a black screen in a round that lasts on average 40 minutes is not a good part of the experience.

Kor wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:It takes like five, but getting your gear back and regaining your bearings on the round is part of the clone experience.

Defib kill should be faster though

It takes 5 minutes of cloning, then you gotta go through cyro (also pretty damn slow), then gathering all your crap, then begging someone for mannitol, then going and eating a ton because cryo made you starving. If you're unlucky you need to go get a new ID and such as well.

Spending 10 minutes respawning/watching a black screen in a round that lasts on average 40 minutes is not a good part of the experience.

I remember when I made LongBow tell me "Really?" after I robusted a medical doctor for using a morphine syringe in a gun to put me down so they could cryo me even though I was constantly asking for mannitol. (No the beakers in the cryotubes didn't have mannitol, I checked)

ShadowDimentio wrote:Getting your gear back and regaining your bearings on the round is part of the clone experience.

I like death being bad. It's fucking death, you DIED. Death being cheapened serves no good imo

Inb4 "but death is already free!" no dumbass death isn't if you want to come back as a secondary character that's cool but you should only be a main part of the round if you survive as a crewmember

No. Let's rephrase """punish murderboner""" to "crew is literally immortal" defibs are trash and should be kept niche.

Cheridan wrote:

Lumbermancer wrote:Good. Death shouldn't be inconsequential. You can still pretty consistently defib people that died accidentally, which is the most important.

>die
>ok i'll just be an ashwalker now

So much consequence. The argument doesn't really hold weight anymore.
I'd rather station crew come back as station crew than as a drone or a posibrain or whatever.

That's still a consequence, you've returned in a different role and you're previous ic interactions are moot.

Death has no consequence so let's never die! That will fix it!

Funny enough you're actually forced to murderbone because if you kill just one person they can easily return a la defibs. Now you gotta kill him and the doctor, but there's a witness so now you gotta kill them. Now sec knows so you gotta kill them! Now the assistant/bartender/chef/etc. wants to be a hero so now you gotta kill them! Now you can't trust anyone so you gotta kill the rest as well or hide in a locker for the rest of the round [so they can all come back and kill you]. Sometimes even fellow traitors will kill you, so you can't even trust the syndikey chat.

Friendly reminder cloning can be taken down considerably if you get RND to upgrade the machine [ Or just add 2u of REDACTED to cryo to turn the 10 minutes into 2-3 ]


I hate pseudo-extended rounds because traitors/whatever the antag is isn't doing anything. If I wanted to play extended I'd play a defense-only character on Basil where I know I can beat up people who interfere with muh workplace.

Kor wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:It takes like five, but getting your gear back and regaining your bearings on the round is part of the clone experience.

Defib kill should be faster though

It takes 5 minutes of cloning, then you gotta go through cyro (also pretty damn slow), then gathering all your crap, then begging someone for mannitol, then going and eating a ton because cryo made you starving. If you're unlucky you need to go get a new ID and such as well.

Spending 10 minutes respawning/watching a black screen in a round that lasts on average 40 minutes is not a good part of the experience.

you have been infected with the cheridan

Dying should suck. If dying doesn't suck, this is a sandbox for children and nothing matters and rounds degenerate to validhunting deathmatch.

Cloning used to get upgraded a lot more in the past but the R&D nerfs have made it quite rare from what I've seen since R&D isn't done as much.

About defibs, I think they're just fine now since they can still save someone who has just died. With old defibs it was so easy to bring back dead people with defib and some patches. Dying should be a punishment and spending up to 10 minutes recovering from it is a good punishment.

Or you can make rezadone and quickclone everyone

cloner drones.

finds bodies, scans DNA
inputs into cloner

IT'S A REALLY BAD IDEA

Better yet: Meat Wagon. Bot that patrols for corpses, scoops them up and delivers to kitchen

That's just called the fucking chef.

Chef isn't allowed to take bodies himself because of server rules.

Incomptinence wrote:Chef isn't allowed to take bodies himself because of server rules.

Yes he is? You're not allowed to drag people out of medbay the moment they die, but people who failed cloning/have their soul departed are perfectly acceptable to gib

Now that there are actual long term consequences to getting messed up in combat (losing limbs) maybe we can make defibs stronger again. You'll still have to do surgery on the person to get them fully functional.

Maybe I can take up robotics again or force craft apple and corn cobs into functional arms.

Make defib cause limbs to sometimes animate independently and crawl off the body.

duh duh duh duh snap snap

When goonmed is merged, you'll also need defibs to pull patients out of deep crit.

Good thing it won't be