/tg/Station 13

As it stands, cyborg augmentations are great and all but the benefit of having them is rarely worth the effort you have to go through of having another person waste all that time on something they don't benefit from. Maybe we should re-implement self-surgery, it was rad. Maybe.

Who removed this shit, anyway?

Or add self sugery machine at a cost of some silver gold and diamond idk
Maybe bio 5 engineering 6

Ezel wrote:Or add self sugery machine at a cost of some silver gold and diamond idk
Maybe bio 5 engineering 6

This is the correct answer. That, or expand surgery and make a dedicated surgeon job for medbay.

Luke Cox wrote:make a dedicated surgeon job for medbay.

Ah yes, the Librarian of medbay.
Maybe as a gimmicky title but really, just ask anybody. You know, that communication thing nobody does unless its harmyelling.

I should probably make a shitpost here about how this is the 1000th thread on the Ideas subforum and it deserves some kind of prize like BEING FUCKING IMPLEMENTED.

i think self surgery is dumb but would not be opposed to an AutoAugmentor machine that would require research and construction

Self Surgery is great and people should be able to do it more because surgery currently relies on MDs not only existing in the first place but also not being braindead because they got randomly assigned to be an MD

In other words, the MD job sucks because literally its only use is with its access, not that MD players can know more about fixing people than anyone else can.

>Go to science for implantation surgery
>Get told to fuck off
>Go to robitcs
>All the roboticists have fucked off with their mechs
>Go to medbay
>All the MDs are braindead/dead/fucking one another

I just want a robot arm you fucking normies

>go to medbay as shaft miner to get legion heart implanted in me for those robust heals
>get somebody to perform surgery on me
>removes my heart and kills me instead on accident

tfw

>roboticist offers me cool robot arms
>actually is tricked into believing him
>while I wasn't paying attention, he borgs me
>im killed 2 minutes later by a security officer for following law two orders to help a prisoner
>mfw

DemonFiren wrote:Who removed this shit, anyway?

a very salty mrperson who somehow swayed cheridan and other maintainers to the dark side, causing them to deny and attempt at a revert

Luke Cox wrote:This is the correct answer.

You know Luke, you're always very confident with your statements, even when they're kinda iffy.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

DemonFiren wrote:Who removed this shit, anyway?

a very salty mrperson who somehow swayed cheridan and other maintainers to the dark side, causing them to deny an attempt at a revert

christ i feel like an eight year old listening to his grampa tell him stories about the war

tell me stories about the war, grampa

take a seat, sonny, and let me tell you about the rise and fall of a man named paprika...

Topham wrote:

Luke Cox wrote:This is the correct answer.

You know Luke, you're always very confident with your statements, even when they're kinda iffy.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

DemonFiren wrote:Who removed this shit, anyway?

a very salty mrperson who somehow swayed cheridan and other maintainers to the dark side, causing them to deny an attempt at a revert

christ i feel like an eight year old listening to his grampa tell him stories about the war

tell me stories about the war, grampa

I mean, I have literally never heard a single person say "self surgery sucks, let's remove it" and an auto-doc has been suggested many, many times

PKPenguin321 wrote:take a seat, sonny, and let me tell you about the rise and fall of a man named paprika...

i believe i was actually around during the fall of pap but the thing is i haven't been involved for shit until maybe a few months ago or so all the dramatic history that's happened seems distant and kinda interesting to me

Luke Cox wrote:I mean, I have literally never heard a single person say "self surgery sucks, let's remove it" and an auto-doc has been suggested many, many times

I mean, I agree with what you're saying, but it irks me a bit to see you make claims that your opinion is correct. I do believe that self-surgery should be re-added somehow, but I will openly admit to being wrong if someone argues otherwise.

I'm not trying to attack you as a person, I'm just pointing out something that's bothered me from what I've seen. I feel like closemindedness tends to attract more closemindedness, and openmindedness tends to attract more openmindedness.

If this came across as anything insulting or unrelated or whatever, let me know, I'll gladly edit it out.

okay so thinking back some more im pretty sure self surgery was technically an ascended glitch. laying down is supposed to make you drop your items, but if you buckled to a bed it layed you down while keeping the items in your hands. surgery can only be done on lying people, meaning that since you're supposed to never be able to hold a tool and lie down at the same time, self surgery was supposed to be impossible. however, many people liked it, and it was accepted as a feature.

that didnt stop a salty mrperson from removing it, though. self surgery was still technically a glitch, and because of this, maintainers (maybe cheridan but i dont remember) merged the removal PR. goofball tried readding it at one point, but it was denied for readding a glitch to the game (they said they might allow it back if it was readded "properly").

i think it's bullshit. it worked fine even if it was a glitch. if anything it was more of a clash of mechanics than a glitch, in my opinion.

also i already added an auto self-implanter to the game but it's nuke ops only and really shouldn't be given to the crew since it makes self surgery way too fucking easy

PKPenguin321 wrote:okay so thinking back some more im pretty sure self surgery was technically an ascended glitch. laying down is supposed to make you drop your items, but if you buckled to a bed it layed you down while keeping the items in your hands. surgery can only be done on lying people, meaning that since you're supposed to never be able to hold a tool and lie down at the same time, self surgery was supposed to be impossible. however, many people liked it, and it was accepted as a feature.

that didnt stop a salty mrperson from removing it, though. self surgery was still technically a glitch, and because of this, maintainers (maybe cheridan but i dont remember) merged the removal PR. goofball tried readding it at one point, but it was denied for readding a glitch to the game (they said they might allow it back if it was readded "properly").

i think it's bullshit. it worked fine even if it was a glitch. if anything it was more of a clash of mechanics than a glitch, in my opinion.

also i already added an auto self-implanter to the game but it's nuke ops only and really shouldn't be given to the crew since it makes self surgery way too fucking easy

oh, the self-implanter was your doing? neat feature 10/10

would we have to rework lying down to make it so that you can grab items after you do lie down? is that how to do it "properly"?

The last time I asked robotics for full augs as shaft miner they literally told me "No, it takes too long and I don't enjoy doing it"

Automated self surgery machine like the mediocre movie promethius?

If you program it wrong or it gets tampered with it can rip you to pieces or something! Man I wish I could say it rips your heart out and you die but we don't have a proper organs/dismemberment system ugh.

I'd prefer to have the machine as an upgrade item which can be attached to a surgery table, like an automated machine arm. If it was a machine only science would build it and use it themselves. As an upgrade part MDs could get the part from R&D and attach it to their surgery table as well.

Incomptinence wrote:Automated self surgery machine like the mediocre movie promethius?

If you program it wrong or it gets tampered with it can rip you to pieces or something! Man I wish I could say it rips your heart out and you die but we don't have a proper organs/dismemberment system ugh.

There are organs, and removing them will kill you. Although that's about all they're good for.

Self Surgery machine would be great. This could easily be a default machine if someone just codes the part list to actually effect it's operation and usefulness [Like the cloner]

Part List:

Autodoctor Circuit Board
1 Manipulator, 2 Matter Bins, 1 Scanning Module
Full Set of Surgery tools [Or their Ghetto Counterparts]
1 Length of Wired
2 Beakers or Containers [Any size]

The machine would have 2 modes of operation: Manual or Programmed [Automatic]. Under Manual control, the Doctor/Roboticist would be able execute surgeries by clicking which tool he wants to use next and chosing what part of the body to target. Each step has a 10% failure rate in manual mode [Before part levels are taken into account]. If Ghetto Tools were used, the normal penalties apply plus the 10% failure rate.

By default, 2 prosthetic limbs/implants can be loaded in at a time, and used during a surgical step to attach or implant.

Saline-Glucose would be generated by the machine [For a power cost to the local APC] for use as a regenerative aid, other chemicals could be added to the machine and stored in the internal beakers for use during surgery [such as Morphine] but must be acquired externally [i.e. from medical/chemistry]

Part Upgrades:

Manipulator: Decreases the time needed for each surgery step with each Tier level. Also reduces the damage dealt by a failure.

Matter Bins: Increases the amount of Prosthetic/Implants the machine can hold, 1 per tier level [2 Bluespace bins = 8 items]

Scanning Module: Decreases the failure rate of each step. Also increases the number of actions that can be scripted in the queue at once[Default = 16 steps/2 full bone repair surgies, +8 steps per tier for 48 with Tri-Phasic]. [Possible upgrade: Allow simultaneous surgeries on different limbs?]

So how does this all work?

In Manual mode, it will function much like surgery does now, without having to constantly swap tools, instead just clicking a button.

In Automatic mode, it would function similar to how the Exosuit Fabricator does now. Each surgery step would be a queue able step. Pre-programmed surgeries would exist much like building a cyborg does now, click the 'add all' button and every step would be added into the queue and would execute once an occupant is inside. Even debraining could be an option, insert and MMI and add 'insert brain' step to automatically spit out an occupied MMI.

Emag-ing the machine would effectively turn it into a gibber, hacking up who ever is inside to an unrecognizable pile of gibs.

Nice and well, but

Lati wrote:I'd prefer to have the machine as an upgrade item which can be attached to a surgery table, like an automated machine arm. If it was a machine only science would build it and use it themselves. As an upgrade part MDs could get the part from R&D and attach it to their surgery table as well.

Then control this thing via surgery computer.

I liked the concept of self-surgery because it's based on reality, and it also seems like something that would happen on SS13.

The only reason it was removed was due to people starting to realize you could use it to augment yourself, since prior to that there was little reason to preform surgery on yourself. It became a balance issue, that's why it was removed, it being a bug was just a flimsy excuse when the reason to remove it was solid enough.

Imo a simpler thing to do would be to reintroduce self surgery but impose a high rate of failure on each step that would deal brute damage to you, as well as disallow certain kinds of operations that would be impossible to perform on yourself.

Don't tell me its feasible for someone to hack their own arm off and attach a robotic limb by themselves.

Anything dealing with something on the arms, legs and chest should be kept that does not involve replacing limbs.

Just let people be able to remove their own brain.

if self-surgery comes back, it needs to come back with huge penalties to the failure rate.

the game already has too much "why would i risk actually communicating and cooperating with somebody else when i could just do everything myself"

I'd like it if you could hack an autodoc the old fashioned way to make it malfunction, but in a more "tears you apart because the safeties are off" sort of way. While emagging the machine makes it more "aggressive" and try to force people onto the surgery table, followed by de-braining and loading said brain into an MMI if it's stocked with one before spitting it out next to it.

I mean surely it's the epitomy of roleplay for a roboticist to silently sit near a surgery table and give you surgery while you're tabbed out because the entire thing is boring to go through.

It wouldn't need a robo to babysit if it's a self-surgery machine, else they could do the surgery themselves and not bother with the thing. But most robos won't give you surgery and good bloody luck convincing them to part with their precious minerals for you to print off the stuff you want to be implanted with.
And this is assuming a roboticist even exists, at least this way could maybe convince R&D to print off some cheap implants/robo-limbs and the machine board + stock parts to assemble it yourself.

That being said, I'd make the xeno removal surgery really risky to do with an autodoc for balance issues

Since it technically was a glitch, I think an auto-surgery machine is the best solution. However, if we do make it, the surgery should take just as long as it would by hand.

Saegrimr wrote:

Luke Cox wrote:make a dedicated surgeon job for medbay.

Ah yes, the Librarian of medbay.
Maybe as a gimmicky title but really, just ask anybody. You know, that communication thing nobody does unless its harmyelling.

I agree that surgery is too obscure right now to warrant a full profession. What I want to see is surgery used to treat some types of injuries like bullet wounds (removing bullets), esword/butcher cleaver/etc. cuts (cautery), etc. Gives medical shit to do and serves as an indirect buff to traitors.

Miauw wrote:if self-surgery comes back, it needs to come back with huge penalties to the failure rate.

the game already has too much "why would i risk actually communicating and cooperating with somebody else when i could just do everything myself"

you are right

self surgery machine is dumb and not needed, just reimplement old self surgery but with actual drawbacks

It needs to have massive penalties so that there's still incentive to have somebody else to do it. I'm talking massive blood loss, high failure rate, etc. This could pave the way for the expanded surgery that I mentioned in my last post (since you aren't completely screwed if you can't get somebody to do the surgery).

I'd be fine with self surgery having plenty of draw backs if it means having self surgery.

I mean, think about what performing surgery on yourself actually entails. It's really difficult, dangerous, and only done in desperate circumstances. Proper surgery should always be preferable to self-surgery. I know "muh realism" is a stupid justification for things, but it makes sense balance-wise too in this situation. The steps should take much longer, have a high failure chance, and cause quite a bit of bleeding and brute on failure. Surgery in general is a great system that encourages cooperation and requiring surgery to treat certain kinds of injuries would be a massive buff to medical (right now, it's cryo/sleeper and forget).

Self sugery drawbacks
1.You cant unbuckle or stop when you doing a step
2.AHH IM BLEEDING
3.ALOT TOOL SLIP UPS EVEN WORSE THEN GHETTO
4.slip ups cause damage
5.chance of extracting the wrong organs with the hemostat (extract my lungs! Woops there goes my heart!)

Or make it that once you've started self surgery that your essentially on a timer as you will now continually begin to bleed out. The bleeding will only stop once you've finished the surgery.

Meaning stoping every few seconds to check the wiki page will likely end up killing you or leaving you on death's door, you would need to know the steps off by heart (or at least be quick on checking the wiki page) to avoid dying end even then your going to run out of a lot of blood.