/tg/Station 13

Since it's been two weeks and HG has yet to end the test or acknowledge any feedback on the issue, I figured I'd just make a poll myself. How do you guys feel secborgs should be handled going forward?

Enabled with a low nerf. Maybe limit their shoot speed to the same as a swarmer without the cooling system upgrade.

I was thinking that they could have a slower taser of some sort

Quit being a baby and eat your harm batons.

Luke Cox wrote:I was thinking that they could have a slower taser of some sort

A taser would be too much in my opinion. Despite complaints about disabler spam, a disabler isn't a one-hit stun like a taser is, which gives you a chance to fight back like fire off an EMP shot or get lucky with a flash.

remove secborg, buff the hacked borgs that are currently useless.

>The poll is super split
>It's probably going to stay like that

Wew lads

It's just going to end with an admin running in shouting WELL SINCE THERE'S NO CONSENSUS MET THAN I'LL HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION! And then just doing what they want, fuck everyone else.

Limit secborgs to one?

"""""""""""""""""test""""""""""""""""

""""""""""""one week"""""""""""""

Codecuck Granny strikes again

The problem with having no secborgs is that other borgs are awful at preventing harm, unless it happens to be caused by another borg.

As it should be. Borgs shouldn't ever be able to detain people alone without great cost.

Why.

Because it sucks and it's not fun if secborgs kill all conflict in a round

i super enjoy the secborgs removal. antags have much more freedom without them running around and are able to do more antagonist things, which inevitably makes rounds more engaging. i really hope they stay disabled.

GeeElAge wrote:The problem with having no secborgs is that other borgs are awful at preventing harm, unless it happens to be caused by another borg.

as it should be.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

GeeElAge wrote:The problem with having no secborgs is that other borgs are awful at preventing harm, unless it happens to be caused by another borg.

as it should be.

Zilenan91 wrote:Because it sucks and it's not fun if secborgs kill all conflict in a round

Stop getting in a fight every round you easily baited valids seekers.

The secborgs are better players than you its like the scum of TG all stood up in defence of mindless death match.

Incomptinence wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

GeeElAge wrote:The problem with having no secborgs is that other borgs are awful at preventing harm, unless it happens to be caused by another borg.

as it should be.

Zilenan91 wrote:Because it sucks and it's not fun if secborgs kill all conflict in a round

Stop getting in a fight every round you easily baited valids seekers.

The secborgs are better players than you its like the scum of TG all stood up in defence of mindless death match.

nice meme friend, but this isn't a real argument, just straight up ad hominem

removal counts as a nerf too I guess

Adois big validseeker borgy

PKPenguin321 wrote: nice meme friend, but this isn't a real argument, just straight up ad hominem

Only resorting to insults because trying to talk my viewpoint over to you has proven futile.

Since not everyone has been job banned from silicones maybe the fault lies with you.

Everybody who voted "no," how would you feel if there was some sort of sec borg that had no stuns or zipties at all?

It would literally be handcuffs on wheels

Incomptinence wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote: nice meme friend, but this isn't a real argument, just straight up ad hominem

Only resorting to insults because trying to talk my viewpoint over to you has proven futile.

Since not everyone has been job banned from silicones maybe the fault lies with you.

literally every single post you've made in this thread has been ad hominem at some group or another. you've not even attempted to speak a viewpoint. i think you just need to take some deep breaths and calm down my friend.

That's the sorta thing we need a server poll for, not a forum one.

PKPenguin321 wrote: literally every single post you've made in this thread has been ad hominem at some group or another. you've not even attempted to speak a viewpoint. i think you just need to take some deep breaths and calm down my friend.

If being civil with this anti synthetics movement worked to any degree I would still be civil.

Disable it permanently and add another no-AI test week on top of it

Luke Cox wrote:Everybody who voted "no," how would you feel if there was some sort of sec borg that had no stuns or zipties at all?

Well, I'm not sure what the point would be. Here's a list of what sec cyborgs get, with the stuns and zipties crossed out.

Zipties
Baton
Disabler
Sechailer
Laser


AIs are given by default a lawset that is about preventing harm and expected to use it most of the time, and since security cyborgs are the only module that allows the AI to actually contain people and move them around however it wants without harming them, they are popular. That much isn't just a "player issue", that's a coded thing, signed with policy.

Cyborgs, meanwhile, are not subject to the same buffs and counters as the rest of the crew. While it would seem like this adds more nuance to combat situations, what it really ends up doing is shutting down a number of otherwise viable options in a non-fun manner. It restricts gameplay instead of expanding it, when it comes to the overall "antag vs security" section of the game.

I was considering suggesting a borg that was more geared towards actually preventing people from harming one another rather than doing sec's job for them. A "peacekeeper" borg with items like an energy bola launcher, sleep toxin injector, etc. No cuffs/zipties or hard stuns.

Luke Cox wrote:I was considering suggesting a borg that was more geared towards actually preventing people from harming one another rather than doing sec's job for them. A "peacekeeper" borg with items like an energy bola launcher, sleep toxin injector, etc. No cuffs/zipties or hard stuns.

A energy bola launcher is a nice idea, though its clear the headmins don't want any type of borg that can detain, and there probably won't be a server poll at this rate.

To actually stop harm you need hard stuns. Literally gotten yelled at for moving to bodyblock lasers rather than just mindlessly stunning in the past.

Without going into detail, the secborg removal was amazing, I hope it's permanent.

No player should ever feel like the mere presence of something is an instant round-over if it gets near you without a rare hard-counter.

TheWulfe wrote:Without going into detail, the secborg removal was amazing, I hope it's permanent.

unanimous headmin decision says that it is

Wizards everywhere are thankful that they aren't getting turbofucked by legions of secborgs

2 TCs for an EMP Kit. No, we cant do anything about Secborgs. This is another pro greytide / antag decision and a kick i the nuts of all Silicons.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

TheWulfe wrote:Without going into detail, the secborg removal was amazing, I hope it's permanent.

unanimous headmin decision says that it is

So, the votes we cast are again overridden by the votes that two thirds of us didn't cast.

Nice.

FranzKrake wrote:2 TCs for an EMP Kit. No, we cant do anything about Secborgs. This is another pro greytide / antag decision and a kick i the nuts of all Silicons.

Ah yes the mandatory EMP kit that you absolutely must buy or else get dunked by secborgs. I am so glad that there is so much variety in borg counterplay.

I hope some day you come to see through your salt and realize that the game betters from ridding itself of secborgs.

What if the secborg was just a glorified beepsky, hell keep secborgs disabled and see how a law-slaved player-controlled securitron works.

1g88a wrote:What if the secborg was just a glorified beepsky, hell keep secborgs disabled and see how a law-slaved player-controlled securitron works.

Great then they will start calling beepsky INVIIIIINCIIIIBLE!

Ah yes the mandatory EMP kit that you absolutely must buy or else get dunked by secborgs. I am so glad that there is so much variety in borg counterplay.

I hope some day you come to see through your salt and realize that the game betters from ridding itself of secborgs.

wow security stuns me with a taser and i just lose unless i have adrenals? WOOOOOOOOOOWWWW BUGGED GAMEEEEEE

half of the fucking things in the game are this way, WOW I GOT CORNERED BY SEC AND I DIDN'T BUY A GUN SO I JUST LOSE WOOOOOOWWW

WOW I WASN'T WEARING SUNGLASSES AND SOMEONE FLASHED ME AND NOW I'M A REV WOWWWW NERF PLEASEEEEE

There's multiple ways to deal with a Human Security Officer.

Your options are far more constrained against a Silicon Security Cyborg.

your options are exactly the same against a human security officer, that is

1. stun it and kill it
2. die
3. run

both can be outran, both can't really deal with obstacles and the secborg has an incredibly easy to acquire instahardcounter for nearly every antag for this exact reason

if you don't buy adrenals and die to a stun, you are told to git gud, but if you die to a stun from a secborg because you didn't buy a 2tc throwaway item you can throw a temper tantrum and get it removed from the game

nice

Cik wrote:a 2tc throwaway item

Don't you fucking shit on the EMP flashlight that thing is GODLY, if you plan to be a murderprick to the point where silicons are going to be up your ass WHY DON'T YOU HAVE ONE?

You can bonk people with it to DISABLE THEIR HEADSETS. Yet people still scream and cry that "Waaaa people still call out my position on the radio when i'm cuffing them!"

I tried that once and got EMP blinded and the dude booked it while I couldn't see

But yeah all arguing here is pointless because the people who once got dunked by a borg and never forgot about it have already won. The headmins don't give a shit how valid our arguments are, they probably got dunked once the same way and also hate secborgs so unless they have a massive change of heart it ain't happening.

"borg help us!"

I exist only to clean.

This is the future of no secborg.

yeah, i'm just going to run effective drone laws from this point on.

especially against sec, your options without secborg are literally nothing since they all have flash protection.

law one is essentially dead at this point because the only tool to work on it was removed

oh well

I would like to see what would happen if they are re-added but without a taser, so they have to use a stun baton. I don't know, just some food for thought.

Cik wrote:1. stun it and kill it
2. die
3. run

you are really oversimplifying this, though. humans have a lot of weaknesses and there are a lot of ways to stun them, and in a lot of cases the "kill it" part is more than just bashing them or whatever. have you forgotten what game this is? this is THE game for creative murder, but when it comes to borgs there is relatively no creativity involved.

you could, just off the top of my head:
1. place a water tile in maintenance, bait a sec officer into chasing you by holding out an esword or something, then throw him out a nearby airlock before he gets up (this can't be done to borgs)
2. shock a door, convince them to go through it, then when they get shocked by it grab them and slam them into the door repeatedly until crit or death (can't be done to borgs, and yes i have done this, it's not just a hypothetical)
3. be a doctor and when a sec officer comes for help you KO them with chems/poison them (can't be done to borgs)
4. get really lucky and stun an officer by knocking them down via a brute weapon (can't be done to borgs, they don't get knocked down or KOed)
5. disarm a sec officer of his baton and cuffs, stun him, and cuff him. then just do whatever you want with him (can't be done to borgs)
6. have an honorable fistfighting-only duel (can't be done with borgs)

hopefully you see my point by now friend

Just use the standard borg module if you want to stun harmful people

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Cik wrote:1. stun it and kill it
2. die
3. run

you are really oversimplifying this, though. humans have a lot of weaknesses and there are a lot of ways to stun them, and in a lot of cases the "kill it" part is more than just bashing them or whatever. have you forgotten what game this is? this is THE game for creative murder, but when it comes to borgs there is relatively no creativity involved.

you could, just off the top of my head:
1. place a water tile in maintenance, bait a sec officer into chasing you by holding out an esword or something, then throw him out a nearby airlock before he gets up (this can't be done to borgs)
2. shock a door, convince them to go through it, then when they get shocked by it grab them and slam them into the door repeatedly until crit or death (can't be done to borgs, and yes i have done this, it's not just a hypothetical)
3. be a doctor and when a sec officer comes for help you KO them with chems/poison them (can't be done to borgs)
4. get really lucky and stun an officer by knocking them down via a brute weapon (can't be done to borgs, they don't get knocked down or KOed)
5. disarm a sec officer of his baton and cuffs, stun him, and cuff him. then just do whatever you want with him (can't be done to borgs)
6. have an honorable fistfighting-only duel (can't be done with borgs)

hopefully you see my point by now friend

>secborg
>no counter

ion rifle: ranged multi-tile battery-draining instant death
EMP grenade: ranged multi-tile battery-draining instant death
flash: melee instant death
laser pointer: ranged annoyance/instant death
flashbang: full screen instant death
EMP flashlight; basically instant death

this isn't even mentioning non-traitor tools, like building a robotics console and maint and hitting the "explode" button on every borg on the station which will remove at least some of them permanently because no one will fin dthe brains. all antags can deal with borgs and relatively easily. this is tantamount that complaining that shadowlings take different tools to deal with than traitors. that's the point, dummy.

not to mention they are far from impossible to shoot the death. lure down corridor and put some revolver into them and they're toast.