How satisifed are you with NTstation/Nanobus?

Neerti · Post by **Neerti** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:45 am #11223

I'm not in charge of anything involving NTstation but I'd like to know how everyone thinks of how things are for the NTstation codebase/#Nanobus/Artyom/etc. How could they improve? What do you not like about them? What do you do like? Etc.

Please keep it civil, and I'd like to avoid '/tg/code vs nt-code' drama.

Nienhaus · Post by **Nienhaus** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:47 am #11224

7/10
I think some of the content could be better but that's just me. I don't find making meth in a bathtub that interesting.

Braindude · Post by **Braindude** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:49 am #11225

I am all of the satisfied.

Bluespace · Post by **Bluespace** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:57 am #11230

8/10, implementing cool stuff.

Post by **lumipharon** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:11 pm #11232

7/10, lots of nice changes, lots of new vanity shit. But we occasionally get some random shit (sometimes fair significant to gameplay/balance) merged without ever really getting discussed.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:12 pm #11233

9/10, but thats me nitpicking over seemingly silly things.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:53 pm #11250

6/10 great content, more open than /tg/, but suffers a serious lack of popularity which makes it undesirable to join over Sybil during off-peak times.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:31 pm #11264

lumipharon wrote:7/10, lots of nice changes, lots of new vanity shit. But we occasionally get some random shit (sometimes fair significant to gameplay/balance) merged without ever really getting discussed.

This, pretty much. I've got no real reason to be dissatisfied, but no real reason to be satisfied. I'm mostly satisfied with the level of community involvement, bar the tommy guns and some details about the gang weapons update.

MrSnapwalk · Post by **MrSnapwalk** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:39 pm #11294

8/10, /NT/station is filled with great contributors, great players, and absolutely horrible great ideas. The only problem I have is that some larger PRs are not tested properly, leading to Artyom's reputation as the "buggy server". Other than that, Nanobus gets a thumbs up from me!

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:55 pm #11297

We get lots of cool small stuff all the time, but I think there's an issue with larger additions or more practical ones. Some potentially good larger issues were turned down because people were scared, and I never saw anything about gang weapons until suddenly anyone who took a wrench to primary tool storage immediately had a 16 damage one-handed melee weapon.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:12 pm #11340

I've been self-nominating myself as head of balance whether people like it or not and I'd like to think I balanced the new weaponry content in a fair way.

I also buffed stun batons tell your friends

I'm in love with this server at the moment. It's pretty awesome.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:19 pm #11346

What are the damages now, then?

I seriously love the potential for NTStation, especially once the big things that we have approved - money and Hand of God - come through.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:26 pm #11352

Improvised concealed blade (switchblade) is piss ez to make and the construction itself will probably be changed but the real difficulty lies in the actual obtaining of the plasteel for the handle. The damage is 15 like a bucher's knife or null rod atm, it used to be 18.

Bats are 13 brute, 1 brute higher than stun batons and you can make them with a hacked autolathe or wooden planks.

A wielded spear/fire axe still shits on both of these weapons, of course.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:53 pm #11370

Isn't a wielded spear something like 12, though?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:58 am #11400

RR Buffed it to 18. It's a poor man's fire axe, which is 24 when wielded. Which is a poor man's esword, which is 30, which is a poor man's dual esword, which is like 34 iirc.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:04 am #11406

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:10 am #11408

Keep in mind all spacemen have *technically* 200 health, so while you can crit people fast with these weapons it doesn't exactly mean much in the end.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:35 am #11415

paprika wrote:Keep in mind all spacemen have *technically* 200 health, so while you can crit people fast with these weapons it doesn't exactly mean much in the end.

Yeah, but 100 of that health is being a punching bag.

Remie Richards · Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:12 pm

paprika wrote:RR Buffed it to 18

You say that like it wasn't a Year ago and existing in both /tg/ and NT.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:18 pm #11645

Regardless of your buffs being ancient the stigma that spears are shit will always remain. See: Psy's post.

danno · Post by **danno** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:26 pm #11652

i'm gonna buff spears
i'm gonna explore making them stackable

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:27 pm #11655

seems unnecessary, you should make cuffs stackable instead and create disposable zipties for sec borgies and shitcurity PMCs

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:09 pm #11675

paprika wrote:Regardless of your buffs being ancient the stigma that spears are shit will always remain. See: Psy's post.

Wiki was never updated. The guide to makeshift weapons still says they really aren't that good. Therefore, the stigma remains, because the wiki is eternally outdated.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:13 pm #11851

"Coders don't owe the players anything. Updating the wiki after they make changes isn't their responsibility. Stop being so fucking entitled."

danno · Post by **danno** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:48 pm #11858

it would be cool if someone willing would take over the changelog god knows i'm too fucking lazy

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:02 pm #11894

paprika wrote:"Coders don't owe the players anything. Updating the wiki after they make changes isn't their responsibility. Stop being so fucking entitled."

Edited the spear info on the wiki.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:11 pm #11898

4.5/10
I like some of the new content, but it rarely is "new content". It's all clothing, and sprite related items. Clothes, clothes, more clothes, and more clothes. Notable items like gang weaponry are one of my least liked things about the code. Giving people an easy way to access weapons 24/7 all day, everyday made it so everyone carries a weapon almost at all times. Sprite changes are interesting, but I almost notably like the old sprites for things like the taser. I think my biggest complaint is bugs. ALOT more bugs get in with PRs. I think it's a combo of things getting merged alot faster, maintainers not actually being adept enough at reviewing code to catch bad code, and stupid people. We had un-balanced tommy guns that traitors used to mop the floor with everyone. Un-balanced (which can be argued they were quickly balanced later) other weaponry. Broken poster sprites. OOC is still broken and it IS code related so that's never been fixed either. So much more bugs pop on NT code.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:26 pm #11907

gonna give it a 1/10, still banned

fix the ban bug and i'll give it another review

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:38 pm #11914

All bugs that surface are fixed within a day of updates. The problem is updates happen bi-weekly. This can be solved by having people religiously comb code for errors and relying on people to test their own shit but right now that's obviously not happening. The first one is, the maintainers catch obvious errors, but they don't personally go and test code, which is what the people who make the PRs should be doing. They also don't usually factor in game balance, at all, which is why most of goofball's shit gets merged.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:58 am #11966

Fair enough. Great response. Someone should really solve the great OOC mystery though. An uodate didn't fix it

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:54 am #11982

I can't help but feel like NTS lacks direction and focus.
Is there any concrete direction NTstation is going in? Is there a clear concept of what NTstation ought to be and do? Are there any planned features to make NTStation something other than TGstation with a fresh coat of paint? Do we want NTStation to be something other than TGS with a fresh coat of paint?

Where are we going and how are we going to get there?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:21 am #11989

Add shit that will get in 300x faster than on /tg/s and enjoy the bug filled ride until it eventually breaks down and we go back to pushing all our good shit to /tg/ p much. Artyom is basically a free test server (with an actual population) for all this new shit.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:55 am #12009

paprika wrote:"Coders don't owe the players anything. Updating the wiki after they make changes isn't their responsibility. Stop being so fucking entitled."

no im pretty sure its just laziness

Neerti · Post by **Neerti** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:23 am #12023

Due to the fact that anyone can submit code and nobody is under any obligation to code we can't really plan down the road as a whole, as everyone just wants to do their own thing probably.

Granted we can come up with ideas, but nobody's forced to code it, so making up a big roadmap with goals wouldn't really work on the project, and turning down PRs that go against an 'established plan of action' for the codebase would, at least to me, violate what NT is about.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:24 am #12024

Which is maid outfits and ballgags, all day, every day, 24/7, we never quit.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:57 am #12063

Psyentific wrote:I can't help but feel like NTS lacks direction and focus.
Is there any concrete direction NTstation is going in? Is there a clear concept of what NTstation ought to be and do? Are there any planned features to make NTStation something other than TGstation with a fresh coat of paint? Do we want NTStation to be something other than TGS with a fresh coat of paint?

Where are we going and how are we going to get there?

What direction does /tg/station have? As far as I can tell it's still just people making new features and fixing bugs without any "goal".
Trying to put a direction on an open source project that anyone can contribute to would be counter-intuitive.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:00 pm #12073

^
I don't know what you expect, a development plan? This entire thing is based on the idea of you coming up with your own ideas and making them real.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:13 pm #12094

how about how about how about instead of us releasing a massive patch every odd moon with more bugs than features we instead release smaller more frequent commits to problems that are currently plaguing the server and sometimes add some new shit?
Because honestly how long has ooc been bugged for? 2-3 weeks?
yeah it's not very good to be honest.
5/10 because in addition the changelog hasn't been updated and we're forced to look at the github commit history which to be honest is one of the most user unfriendly things I've ever laid my eyes on.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:12 pm #12108

ColonicAcid wrote:how about how about how about instead of us releasing a massive patch every odd moon with more bugs than features we instead release smaller more frequent commits to problems that are currently plaguing the server and sometimes add some new shit?

The "massive patch every odd moon" thing is down to SoS. He updates when he updates.

ColonicAcid wrote: Because honestly how long has ooc been bugged for? 2-3 weeks?

No?

ColonicAcid wrote: 5/10 because in addition the changelog hasn't been updated and we're forced to look at the github commit history which to be honest is one of the most user unfriendly things I've ever laid my eyes on.

Still looking for someone willing to do that

Braindude · Post by **Braindude** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:40 pm #12115

danno wrote:
ColonicAcid wrote:how about how about how about instead of us releasing a massive patch every odd moon with more bugs than features we instead release smaller more frequent commits to problems that are currently plaguing the server and sometimes add some new shit?
The "massive patch every odd moon" thing is down to SoS. He updates when he updates.

ColonicAcid wrote: Because honestly how long has ooc been bugged for? 2-3 weeks?
No?

ColonicAcid wrote: 5/10 because in addition the changelog hasn't been updated and we're forced to look at the github commit history which to be honest is one of the most user unfriendly things I've ever laid my eyes on.
Still looking for someone willing to do that

I'm willing to do that if somebody tells me how.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:44 am #12238

yeah colonic i cant really understand why you would act like its our fault the servers dont update faster youve been here for a while

also braindude come on #nanobus and we can talk about it

Post by **lumipharon** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:50 am #12287

Yeah, PR's often get merged real fast/without (enough) testing. We can get rid of every bug before it hits live, but some of them are really damn obvious.

And things that can effect game balance (like adding new buildable guns etc) really should get discussed, even if briefly, before getting pulled.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:12 pm #12293

miggles wrote:yeah colonic i cant really understand why you would act like its our fault the servers dont update faster youve been here for a while

also braindude come on #nanobus and we can talk about it

No I'm not talking about that.

Coderbus puts out feature every month or 2 or so, okay that's fine, I can understand that. They have lots of time to test.
Every month we release a bucketload of features that don't have any real testing and they're kind of just thrown in the list and given a baptism by fire.
This is not a good way to conduct a code base. Tell me how many errors and runtimes do we get compared to /tg/station code?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:35 pm #12581

Zero, errors block the code from being compiled in the first place so again please know what you're talking about ok.

I fully agree with the balance thing though. There's obvious things that common sense can decide like not giving nuke ops 90-round 60 brute guns for 5tc but like, a lot of things are made without a deeper understanding for the long term affects on the rounds. I'm not going to go into another rant about balance but rest assured the balance on new feature merging is being improved significantly by all of our contributors.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:14 am #12618

After what happened with gang weapons, there will certainly be more effort put into ensuring balance is kept and reviewing PRs more thoroughly.
The gang PR was only merged because I was under the impression it was for mappers only and hadn't noticed the commit which made them buildable.

WeeYakk · Post by **WeeYakk** » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:01 am #12649

Of all the things ported over from /tg/ the carpet fix has yet to be ported. Get this, add a cowboy outfit, and never add anything else to the game ever and it'll be good.

E: 10/10

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:48 am #12777

Yeah we should really port the carpet fix.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:06 am #12792

OOC has been broken for almost 3 weeks now. Bugs are present and bountiful.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:46 am #12796

No OOC is great and I argue it is a feature. No new players accidentally spoiling the roundtype.

b-b-but muh talking about the game and/or non game related stuff with other players!!!
Try using the IRC channels for once. You can access them from your browser.
irc.rizon.net
#nanobus
#coderbus
#tgstation13

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:05 am #12800

You could argue it's a feature. But I will rebuff that until he can turn OOC off and on at will.

How satisifed are you with how things are right now?