/tg/Station 13

Space cash is cool but really uselesss. It could add an interesting new RP topic if there would be more that can be done with it.

Coins in slot maschines are ok. But they schould also eat Bills. (I honestly have no idea what you can do with bills)

What other ideas are there?

Roll it up to snort (ingest) chems and/or use it as rolling paper for cigarette rollies.

Economy when

coins need to be stackable first tbh

Wyzack wrote:Economy when

When people actually feel like fucking around with cards, money, ATMs, and other bullshit when the shuttle is coming in ~30 minutes and their bank account resets.

Saegrimr wrote:

Wyzack wrote:Economy when

When people actually feel like fucking around with cards, money, ATMs, and other bullshit when the shuttle is coming in ~30 minutes and their bank account resets.

Hopefully never.

We could just do it like Paradise does it and make economy not that important but still used. Maybe even add some side antags revolving around getting as much money as possible in their bank account when they leave on the shuttle.

If you want an economy that's worth caring about, add departmental budgets for requisitioning lots of different types of equipment. Make that how you choose what different departments do each round, like what engine to set up, what armaments to shoot traitors with, what animals to kill and eat, that sort of thing.

Economy will never work on /tg/. Here's why. Story time.

Back in June of 2015, I decided I wanted to make an in-game economy. I thought of how much the game could be improved by making one. I set to work, and before long, I had a framework in place for IDs holding money and being transferred via ATMs - accounts at this point didn't exist, and all money was managed via ID cards. So, I made a pull request.
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10220

But I wasn't the only person who was interested in making an economy. Miauw, who was a maintainer at the time, was similarly interested in this concept. You have to realize - neither of us, at the time, knew that the other was making an economy for /tg/. So Miauw, not knowing that there was already an economy PR up, made his own economy and put it up on GitHub.
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10228

Even pudl was making an economy, but opted to stay out of the rush for it. A similar conundrum happened with Hand of God, when Remie, pudl, and I had all begun work on the gamemode simultaneously and decided to leave it to Remie to make (which, in my opinion, was a mistake, considering how half-baked the gamemode is today).

We soon realized - we had both made an economy PR and put it up on the exact same day (June 28, 2015). Of course, we realized that the only way to proceed would be a battle of the pull requests, and thus began what we, in good spirits, dubbed the Battle of Capitalism. Miauw's system focused primary on a central banking server where accounts were stored, and these accounts would store the digitized version of money. ID cards were not required - you just needed a PIN. This was different from mine, where you only needed and ID and an ATM to manipulate your money.

It went into a spiral of confusion from there. Miauw and I poked fun at one another and stole ideas from one another's pull requests. We both put up feedback threads and explained why the other sucked and why ours should be best. A lot of controversy started to spread throughout the forums, IRC channels, and even OOC, where large-scale discussions of the feasibility and requirement of an in-game economy would take place over the course of multiple rounds. It was a fun time, and is one of my fondest memories of /tg/ and Space Station 13 as a whole.

Over time, however, the negative sentiments started to outweigh the positive ones. Big names like Ricotez started to disagree with the idea, and a lot of others just offered suggestions of their own version of the economy. I'm not sure what it was, but the large majority of players seemed to want to stick to the old tried-and-true bartering system currently on the server. I lost motivation for the project, and Miauw seemed to as well. So many people just didn't want it compared to the vocal few who did. We eventually both realized that an economy wasn't feasible and closed our pull requests.

The point of telling you all this is to say this: we both put forth a lot of love and effort into these projects to make sure they were enjoyable, but it didn't please the server. The vast majority of people don't want an economy - maybe it's changed in the number of months since then, but I have no reason to believe it has when so little else has changed. Unless an economy was to be done flawlessly, seamlessly implemented and made everyone happy, even those who didn't want to use it, money won't happen. Ever.

This overall negativity toward an idea of an economy is even happening in this thread. Look above me at Lumbermancer's reply.

On a quick side note, there are tons of coins and cash monies in maint on most maps, so I feel like greyshirts could easily get an interround economy inflated faster than runescape, if you can remember back that far.

Xhuis wrote:Economy will never work on /tg/. Here's why. Story time.
Over time, however, the negative sentiments started to outweigh the positive ones. Big names like Ricotez started to disagree with the idea, and a lot of others just offered suggestions of their own version of the economy. I'm not sure what it was, but the large majority of players seemed to want to stick to the old tried-and-true bartering system currently on the server

This is why you need to merge changes fast, come up with a workable system, bang it in before anyone can complain and spend the next five months refining it and attaching it to the rest of the systems.

This protip brought to you by paprika's guide to nerfing security.

oranges wrote:

Xhuis wrote:Economy will never work on /tg/. Here's why. Story time.
Over time, however, the negative sentiments started to outweigh the positive ones. Big names like Ricotez started to disagree with the idea, and a lot of others just offered suggestions of their own version of the economy. I'm not sure what it was, but the large majority of players seemed to want to stick to the old tried-and-true bartering system currently on the server

This is why you need to merge changes fast, come up with a workable system, bang it in before anyone can complain and spend the next five months refining it and attaching it to the rest of the systems.

This protip brought to you by paprika's guide to nerfing security.

Or Goofball's guide to chemistry.

yeah. A real economie is maybe too much. But how about some more slot maschines that you can use the money you found for. (And slot maschines that eat bills!) Some public vendors to get cool clothing items. Some kind of casino at dorms. A pet store/vendor where youc an buy a cute little friend.
Every player starts with some bills in the air mask box. most wont use it but some can have fun doing simple task to get the other guys money in order to buy a pet or play in the casino.

I remember that PR war. I was oh so looking forward to one or the other getting merged. The opposition seems to be in two major camps for this, and as far as i can tell is nowhere near the majority.

1. ECONOMY RETARDED I DUN WANNA DEAL WITH IT MAKE IT ENTIRELY OPTIONAL

well okay then i guess we-

2. WHAT YOU DONT EVEN NEED TO USE IT FOR ANYTHING RELATED TO VALIDS IT IS OPTIONAL AND THEREFORE WORTHLESS REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE

Xhuis wrote: Even pudl was making an economy, but opted to stay out of the rush for it. A similar conundrum happened with Hand of God, when Remie, pudl, and I had all begun work on the gamemode simultaneously and decided to leave it to Remie to make (which, in my opinion, was a mistake, considering how half-baked the gamemode is today).

Please, you wouldn't have made it any better.
you'd have been known as the person to make TWO fucked up gamemodes, did you really want that?

The problem with money is always that botany can shit out 10s of thousands of credits for very little effort via the money tree.

The crew helps itself, it doesn't need to charge money for goods and services.

Vakulum wrote:Space cash is cool but really uselesss.

that's the entire joke
it's a South Park reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinewood_ ... outh_Park)

The only way an economy would work is if the currency had practical short term value.

If mining materials had more uses around the station I could totally see them becoming part of the bartering system.

Mineral coins already have value from the slot machines. Now all we need is more things that require coins. Like all vending machines on the station. Having fancy electronic accounts is too long term, to formal and its a step removed from the bartering process. It would work on an RP server but not TG.

Ideally, if someone needed something to eat someone in your department would toss you a few coins they acquired so you could grab something to eat. Conversion from coins to sheets could occur at machines around the station.

obviously there should be a nanotrasen gift shop that you can buy slightly more inferior products then you can buy from an uplink

Remie Richards wrote:pow

Going off topic here for a sec.

The main reason HoG was a failure in my eyes wasn't because of you, it was because of pressure to finish it and get it right out there. It's the same reason that slings were a flop; I wanted to get it out there because of how many people wanted it, and it probably would have been better if it actually got play testing (slings, I mean).

Anyway, back in topic. If you want to continue this talk to me in IRC.

I still stand by my original point on in economy, but I think Goof's stock market is a step in the right direction if we want to make a full-fledged economy. That is, if the players react favorably and don't shoot it down.

In order for the economy idea to be viable, it actually needs to both have a purpose and be used very frequently, else it's little more than a gimmick. If you can buy or sell station power through beaming it in/out, or maybe have a black market ship with traders drive by every once in a while, or maybe even feed into the syndie economy with that, you could come up with some really cool gameplay.

If it's just for buying soda out of vendors then no one will want it or care about it, it'll become bleeding all over again.

How to implement economy easily and interestingly:

Give Cargo the abillity to export stuff, give them a changing list of goods centcom is willing to pay cargo credits for.

Cargo now becomes a trade hub and actually has a reason for existing now besides ordering insulated gloves for cargo techs and declaring independence.

CPTANT wrote:How to implement economy easily and interestingly:

Give Cargo the abillity to export stuff, give them a changing list of goods centcom is willing to pay cargo credits for.

Cargo now becomes a trade hub and actually has a reason for existing now besides ordering insulated gloves for cargo techs and declaring independence.

This is all already live on the server actually and it's a ton of fun, I just wish that baked goods and stuff from the kitchen was worth more

newfren wrote:The problem with money is always that botany can shit out 10s of thousands of credits for very little effort via the money tree.

I assume it goes without saying that if cash was ever important, scarcity would be coded in. Either money tree cash wouldn't be worth anything or it'd just be removed, the reference isn't better than a full gameplay system.

Pointless to try to implement economy before you fix this:

Saegrimr wrote:

Wyzack wrote:Economy when

When people actually feel like fucking around with cards, money, ATMs, and other bullshit when the shuttle is coming in ~30 minutes and their bank account resets.

Or maybe if we add compelling late game content people will stay for longer rounds, and less readily call the shuttle

If we add any economy features in the future, it should revolve around the stock market we have in cargo right now.

Xhuis wrote:

Remie Richards wrote:pow

Going off topic here for a sec.

The main reason HoG was a failure in my eyes wasn't because of you, it was because of pressure to finish it and get it right out there. It's the same reason that slings were a flop; I wanted to get it out there because of how many people wanted it, and it probably would have been better if it actually got play testing (slings, I mean).

Anyway, back in topic. If you want to continue this talk to me in IRC.

Also off topic.

Apparently I interpreted your comment as a lot more loaded and barbed than it was intended to be.
I guess I withdraw what I said.