/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:58 pm**

Byond account and character name:
[Hatters Gonna Hat] Frank N. Stine

Banning admin:
Bgobandit

Ban type (What are you banned from?):
Jobbanned from Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer.

Ban reason and length:
The reason is: Has a history of jumping to often lethal conclusions in command roles. Has been warned several times in the past for this behavior. This jobban will be lifted in 10080 minutes.

Time ban was placed (including time zone):
Sunday, January 31st, 2016, roughly 9:00 AM EST

Your side of the story:
I was the captain during a rev round. I was helping engineering setup the engine. I had wrenched down the PA and was adding wires when Jon Snow, the CE, telebaton'd me down and started beating me over the head with a toolbox. He got in another telebaton and another round of toolbox hits before I managed to get up and tase him. I then lasered him dead. Bear in mind that nothing was previously said or done: I had said nothing to him, he said nothing to me, neither myself nor Bgobandit could find anything to have triggered this outburst. Additionally, as far as I am aware, no action was taken against Jon Snow by admins. After that, someone tried to take him and clone him after I said not to. I cut cloning power momentarily and killed him again. At this point the silicons are livid and the engineering cyborg says: [Common] Engineering Cyborg-173 states, "B Please kill the captain nonharmfully." At this point I think that the engineering cyborg is trying to playfully say over robotics channel that I need to die, and not as a joke, especially since the AI had been previously bolting doors around me, so I run to RD to blow it. It turns out that the silicons had no antagonistic laws, but I blew it knowing that the MMI would remain and that it could be rebuilt. Bgobandit claims that, essentially, it's easy to see that the line was just a joke, and due to blowing the cyborg, headbanned me for a week because 'I had a large amount of previous warnings.'

Why you think you should be unbanned:
I originally made a couple paragraphs detailing my history of notes on my account, and conflicts in admin behavior/rulings in said instances, but I don't feel like catching even more shit than I usually do so I'm just going to be concise. 99% of the issue in all of my notes and in all history of admin intervention is when I'm the captain. Bottom line, I'm either lax and no one bats an eye; or I attempt to rule with a heavier hand to prevent steamrolling and everyone loses their shit. If you want to punish me, I disagree with it and urge a reconsideration but fine, whatever, you do you, it's a weekban and I can handle it like a big boy. But at the very least, please limit it to just the captain role.

QUICK EDIT: I was unaware that it was rev until much later, after I had died.

Posted: **Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:29 pm**

Silicons shouldn't be joking about killing people, they shouldn't be inciting mutiny either.

Posted: **Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:10 pm**

So you were primarily banned for a note I left on your user account.

People here should note the date. June 2014.

Line 22552: [13:59:28]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) stunned Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 100)(111,71,1)
Line 22553: [13:59:30]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with mechanical toolbox(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 100)(111,71,1)
Line 22554: [13:59:31]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with mechanical toolbox(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 100)(111,71,1)
Line 22555: [13:59:32]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with mechanical toolbox(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 88)(111,71,1)
Line 22556: [13:59:33]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with mechanical toolbox(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 88)(111,71,1)
Line 22557: [13:59:33]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with mechanical toolbox(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 76)(111,71,1)
Line 22558: [13:59:34]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with telescopic baton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 76)(111,71,1)
Line 22559: [13:59:35]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with telescopic baton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 64)(111,71,1)
Line 22560: [13:59:36]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with mechanical toolbox(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 64)(111,71,1)
Line 22561: [13:59:37]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with mechanical toolbox(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 52)(111,71,1)
Line 22562: [13:59:38]ATTACK: Jon Snow(helgraf) attacked Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) with mechanical toolbox(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 52)(111,71,1)
Line 22564: [13:59:42]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the electrode (NEWHP: 100)(109,72,1)
Line 22565: [13:59:45]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: 100)(109,72,1)
Line 22566: [13:59:45]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: 82)(109,72,1)
Line 22567: [13:59:45]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: 64)(109,72,1)
Line 22569: [13:59:46]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: 46)(109,72,1)
Line 22570: [13:59:47]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: 28)(109,72,1)
Line 22571: [13:59:47]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: 10)(109,72,1)
Line 22572: [13:59:48]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: -8)(109,72,1)
Line 22573: [13:59:48]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: -26)(109,72,1)
Line 22574: [13:59:49]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: -44)(109,72,1)
Line 22575: [13:59:49]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: -62)(109,72,1)
Line 22576: [13:59:50]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: -80)(109,72,1)
Line 22577: [13:59:50]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: -98)(109,72,1)
Line 22578: [13:59:51]ATTACK: Frank N. Stine(hattersgonnahat) shot Jon Snow(helgraf) with the laser (NEWHP: -116)(109,72,1)

So, as far as I know, captains have generally been allowed to respond with lethal force for getting beaten literally half to death, and there was no indication the ce was gonna stop here. In this situation, any captain would have been justified in authorizing a execution, and forbidding cloning.

I can honestly say I would have responded in kind.

So the biggest issue is the borg situation.

Given that you had just been attacked by the CE, and this was the engineering borg, somebody who would have been in emag range of the ce, i'm gonna go out on limb here and say the reaction was a bit overboard, but not 10080 hour job ban overboard, really it would have depended on if it got rebuilt and if you tried to stop that.

Also:

[14:18:02]SAY: Ghost/Helgraf : heres the thing
[14:18:07]SAY: Ghost/Helgraf : i wasnt actually the ce
[14:18:12]SAY: Ghost/Helgraf : i was a rev

I normally don't like to overrule admins on bans, even trial admins, especially when they aren't around anymore to confirm anything, but since it was my 1.65 year old note that I gave while only just getting off of being a trialmin myself that in part got you banned, the fact that you had just been lethally attacked by somebody you had reason to believe was the CE, and then saw an engineering borg, who could be easy target for an emagging talking about killing you, I'm gonna go ahead and repeal this one under the 'any game admin can overrule a trialmin's ban' policy.

That being said, for other reasons you are floating on thin ice, but this situation isn't one of them.

Admins should be reminded to check the date on notes.

Mods: leave this up for a few days so bgo can see this.

Posted: **Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:39 pm**

Sounds good. That note wasn't the full reason but it was certainly up there in my reasoning, so fair enough.

(For the record, this wasn't about the Jon Snow situation, which I would have considered "it's rev, shit happens" even if he didn't happen to be a rev himself.)

Posted: **Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:42 pm**

Despite the fact that it's already been resolved, I feel the need to point this out.

>Bgobandit claims that, essentially, it's easy to see that the line was just a joke

This shit is literally 'act like an antag, get treated like an antag'. There is no IC reason to say "b kill the human beep boop".
People get lynched for "/me extends their proboscis!", or dressing as a wizard during a confirmed wiz round etc. It's pretty shitty to blame someone for what's basically a very meta joke, that IC wise can and should get you into shit.

Posted: **Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:48 pm**

lumipharon wrote:This shit is literally 'act like an antag, get treated like an antag'. There is no IC reason to say "b kill the human beep boop".
People get lynched for "/me extends their proboscis!", or dressing as a wizard during a confirmed wiz round etc. It's pretty shitty to blame someone for what's basically a very meta joke, that IC wise can and should get you into shit.

The key word here is "nonharmfully," and the key action is jumping straight to blowing the borg, rather than locking it, which takes zero extra effort. Killing someone for /me extends their proboscis! or dressing up as a wizard during wiz is, as far as I'm concerned, equally shit. There's a difference between acting like an antag and acting like someone making a bad joke.

Posted: **Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:38 pm**

bandit wrote:
lumipharon wrote:This shit is literally 'act like an antag, get treated like an antag'. There is no IC reason to say "b kill the human beep boop".
People get lynched for "/me extends their proboscis!", or dressing as a wizard during a confirmed wiz round etc. It's pretty shitty to blame someone for what's basically a very meta joke, that IC wise can and should get you into shit.
The key word here is "nonharmfully," and the key action is jumping straight to blowing the borg, rather than locking it, which takes zero extra effort. Killing someone for /me extends their proboscis! or dressing up as a wizard during wiz is, as far as I'm concerned, equally shit. There's a difference between acting like an antag and acting like someone making a bad joke.

But I've seen first hand multiple admins tell the vicims of both my examples 'tough fucking luck, don't act/dress as an antag' when that exact thing happened.

Also there are plenty of ways to make a silicon rogue to 'nonharmfully' murder humans.
Quarantine law, for example, says something along the lines of "Do not permit anyone to leave. Prevent, by any means necessary, humans from leaving. It is impossible to harm a human while preventing them from leaving."
And while blowing the borg is usually not great, unless it's emagged it's only a temporary inconvenience.

Posted: **Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:40 pm**

Since this is resolved, I feel like this might be a better discussion for the policy subforum.

/tg/Station 13

[Bgobandit] Frank N. Stine - Weekban from Head Roles

[Bgobandit] Frank N. Stine - Weekban from Head Roles

Re: [Bgobandit] Frank N. Stine - Weekban from Head Roles

Re: [Bgobandit] Frank N. Stine - Weekban from Head Roles

Re: [Bgobandit] Frank N. Stine - Weekban from Head Roles

Re: [Bgobandit] Frank N. Stine - Weekban from Head Roles

Re: [Bgobandit] Frank N. Stine - Weekban from Head Roles

Re: [Bgobandit] Frank N. Stine - Weekban from Head Roles

Re: [Bgobandit] Frank N. Stine - Weekban from Head Roles