/tg/Station 13

This is not kosher, in the same way that ghosting after being converted is not kosher, correct? Ayys don't get points for it, and it's kind of dickish. Some people are arguing they should have the right to ghost to avoid "nonconsensual RP." Thoughts?

I don't understand how this is even a point of discussion. Ghosting after being borged by a malf AI and ghosting when abducted should both be bannable offenses.

Why would you ghost out if you're going to get released in like 60 seconds anyway? Like, unless the abductors start emoting about anal probes or some weird shit, I think people should be able to man up and deal with being put in a situation where they're powerless for a minute or two

I'd rather abductors just be able to get points from catatonic/braindead people, as the neatest solution involving no headaches.

Ever since ayy's have been put in, I've yet to be kidnapped by one, but if people seriously ghost to make the ayys not win or get a greentext they should get a Ayy ban so they don't get to enjoy being one themselves in the future, and a stern talking to.

>unconsensual rp

lmao is this their shitty excuse for "i want to deny the greentext"

ban their ass

A combination of Ausops' and "Ban the big fat babies" sounds ideal.

Can we also add a thing where if people are gibbed it still counts for the purpose of their objective?

For context, we had a captain who rushed up to an ayyyyy with a baton, only to get baton-ed by the ayyyyyy first. He then proceeded to ghost before the ayyyyyys got the chance to disect him, and later popped up in OOC about how he can opt out of the game anytime he wants, how ayyyyyyy probes were considered nonconsensial (E)RP, and how ayyyyys were in the "magical realm" that he would choose not to participate.

I just told him that ghosting as a head or captain is punishable without proper reasons, and got on with the next round.

Abductors are the last thing you want to ghost out of anyway, since they give you free antag with silly objectives and of the few implants that kill you, I'm quite sure they can still be circumvented by a cloning backup. It's at least understandable with cult or sling or rev since sometimes you just don't want to fucking play or you'd be useless anyway but in these cases we should really be encouraging players to just ahelp it. Admins will happily offer control or ask for prayers to replace them.

killerx09 wrote:For context, we had a captain who rushed up to an ayyyyy with a baton, only to get baton-ed by the ayyyyyy first. He then proceeded to ghost before the ayyyyyys got the chance to disect him, and later popped up in OOC about how he can opt out of the game anytime he wants, how ayyyyyyy probes were considered nonconsensial (E)RP, and how ayyyyys were in the "magical realm" that he would choose not to participate.

I just told him that ghosting as a head or captain is punishable without proper reasons, and got on with the next round.

To be completely fair, the ayys in question were doing weird shit like forced sex changes -- but on the other hand, that's not really out of line with stuff you might expect to happen during an alien abduction. I feel like I've put more thought into this than it requires.

(This has been handled, for the record.)

imblyings wrote:I'd rather abductors just be able to get points from catatonic/braindead people, as the neatest solution involving no headaches.

Because some people just want to piss their knickers.

I don't even understand why you'd ghost unless you're that much of a prick. Abductors return you to the station, they literally have to to get points. Aside from just getting bad implant, the worst that can happen is they drop you somewhere you don't have access, or someplace that's lethal (like the atmos tanks) which I'd argue is worth an abductor ban if you're killing your abductees.

If the Abductors are wasting time or doing ERP emotes then just ahelp it and watch them get gibbed. If someone ghosts after being abducted ban them. It's that simple.

keep in mind there's a difference between "erp surgery" and "changing every visual aspect of someone so when you toss them back on station nobody knows who they are and are vomiting spiders"

one is creepy, one is a funny gimmick for abductors

You don't get to choose where they go. After you stuff em with a new organ and put em in the microwave they pop back on the arrivals shuttle.

Even better, that makes the old person seemingly disappear and get replaced with the new one.

Saegrimr wrote:You don't get to choose where they go. After you stuff em with a new organ and put em in the microwave they pop back on the arrivals shuttle.

Did this change? I guess last time I was abductor/got abducted they got sent back to where ever the teleporter was set, that was about six months ago and I never ever see abductors anymore. Just a perk to being a ligger I guess, nobody wants your liver.

They're not even main round antags so what's the big deal if someone ghosts when they get abducted? It doesn't ruin the round for anyone but themselves.

People shouldn't ghost when cuffed by sec either

Tsaricide wrote:They're not even main round antags so what's the big deal if someone ghosts when they get abducted? It doesn't ruin the round for anyone but themselves.

Specifically once it becomes a pattern of behaviour the abductors don't get any points for ghosted victims, so they can't complete their objectives. At least when you're sec and someone ghosts it just means no more problems for you.

Wouldn't the simplest solution give ayyliens a 180 byond tick timer after someone ghosts for it to not count for anything?

Or just make braindeads count. It'll give ayys an incentive to abduct a bunch of braindeads so they can observe the effects of their organs.

Zilenan91 wrote:Or just make braindeads count. It'll give ayys an incentive to abduct a bunch of braindeads so they can observe the effects of their organs.

last time i played abductor braindeads counted

They've never counted for points. You could always send htem and put organs in them, but they've never counted for points.

Would it be feasible to let abductors put ghosts/observers into braindead bodies? Maybe it's not quite as simple as just changing how abductors earn points, but I think it would lead to more interesting situations in game.

Konork wrote:Would it be feasible to let abductors put ghosts/observers into braindead bodies? Maybe it's not quite as simple as just changing how abductors earn points, but I think it would lead to more interesting situations in game.

Check to see if the mob's ckey is null and if so, snag a ghost? Would be interesting for sure.

Might also result in them abducting a locker full of braindead clones and shitting a torrent of identical semi-antags onto the station from deadchat. Fund it.

Cheimon wrote:

Tsaricide wrote:They're not even main round antags so what's the big deal if someone ghosts when they get abducted? It doesn't ruin the round for anyone but themselves.

Specifically once it becomes a pattern of behaviour the abductors don't get any points for ghosted victims, so they can't complete their objectives. At least when you're sec and someone ghosts it just means no more problems for you.

But they're side antags so their green text means nothing.

Tsaricide wrote:But they're side antags so their green text means nothing.

That wont stop them from releasing the singularity.

But they're side antags so their green text means nothing.

I really have no clue what you're saying here. Why they greentext means nothing because they're side antags?

Tsaricide wrote:But they're side antags so their green text means nothing.

Doesn't stop crew from validing them every chance they get. Antag is antag, green-text is green-text.

I mean, greentext doesn't mean anything more to a main antag than a side antag. It's an entirely vague concept. It doesn't mean more to a traitor than it does to an abductor. If you're saying greentext should never be an argument for policy changes around antags, fair enough, but I think most people would disagree.

Making catatonics and braindeads work for abductors presents two problems: first, abductors will get a bunch of monkeymen from genetics, so they can win without experiencing danger, and second, braindeads don't fight back, removing any tension from abduction visits.

If you're enough of a salty baby to ghost out of spite when being abducted to deny them points, and THEN claim it was 'nonconsensial rp (what even???)', you probably don't need to be playing at all.

Just ban people who do it and point-n-laugh at anyone who tries to appeal it. We already punish people who ghost/suicide directly after being converted, so why not these people?

Horrifically bad sportsmanship. Shit like this makes me not want to play more than the sporadic amount that i show up currently.

Honestly, ghosting should be removed because it does two things bad:

a) allows people to 'spectate' when the round isn't going the way they want, allowing them to stay connected and enjoy the game even if it means dicking over antags that might be trying to convert them (cults, malf, shadowling, ayylmaos)
b) is easily deflectable if an admin wants to ban someone: "you can't force me to play as an antag i don't like playing!"

Admins should never FORCE people to play, but if someone doesn't want to play, they can just close the game because it doesn't dick over antags that need conversion points like ayys.

I'm sure there's a reason we have kept ghosting/catatonic for all these years, but we have a big enough to playerbase to justify not just straight up allowing people to be like 'lol i want to spectate now fuck u haha xd'

Got converted to a mode you don't like? It's super easy to ahelp: "yo can you replace me, i hate playing X". Or even better, request a ban in that gamemode so you get automatically replaced.

>Trying to force people to play the game

CHRIST STOP THIS, WE LITERALLY CANNOT ENFORCE IT PEOPLE JUST DISCONNECT

oranges wrote:>Trying to force people to play the game

CHRIST STOP THIS, WE LITERALLY CANNOT ENFORCE IT PEOPLE JUST DISCONNECT

we can't stop them from NOT playing the game

but we CAN stop them from "lol gonna ghost to deny the greentexts and then roll event antag and play some more :^)"

oranges wrote:>Trying to force people to play the game

CHRIST STOP THIS, WE LITERALLY CANNOT ENFORCE IT PEOPLE JUST DISCONNECT

...so?

You don't lose anything by leaving the game if you're not having fun, there's no penalty unless you're in a command role mostly, and if you're an antag you usually get replaced if an admin sees you being braindead for too long and nothing is going on, so again the question is:

Why do we allow people, who don't want to get converted to antags like rev/cult/abuductee, to ghost and give a virtual middle finger to someone who put in the effort to capture them?

Sure you could say 'maybe they don't like playing that' but a large part of SS13 is the variety and circumstances rounds go through. If you don't like that, play a different game. That IS something we can enforce, instead of dumbing down the game to let people choose the exact little game experience they want to have by removing the lethality, danger, and every other dynamic aspect of the game's antag system. /tg/'s playerbase especially has lost the point of ss13 through the years, and that is 'playing the job you signed up for isn't the point of the game, it's the situations that come from that'. That's why we have jobs like bartender and chef that could be replaced by fucking vending machines for a smoother gameplay experience. The chef has a gibber and the bartender has a fucking shotgun.

You're shooting yourself in the foot either way. Let's make it a bloody mess.

tl;dr ghosting is a shit, archaic feature that should be used for debugging. nobody can straight up go catatonic at will and it ruins the gameplay when we have to balance shit around it like spectator antag opt-ins and ayy lmao points.

I was scared of being abducted by ayys as a wee lad you have no idea how traumatic this shit is to me if I appear as ghosted it's because I threw my PC outta the window and then followed it like seriously

Ghosting is fine and should stay, I don't even get how someone can make a case to remove it.

iamgoofball wrote:

oranges wrote:>Trying to force people to play the game

CHRIST STOP THIS, WE LITERALLY CANNOT ENFORCE IT PEOPLE JUST DISCONNECT

we can't stop them from NOT playing the game

but we CAN stop them from "lol gonna ghost to deny the greentexts and then roll event antag and play some more :^)"

Is there any way to code in a little tidbit that prevents respawns if a person ghosted while alive? If they actually died or committed suicide, fine, but if they ghosted the game should actively prevent them from getting back into the round via drones, swarmers, xenos and any other spawn.

Davidchan wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:

oranges wrote:>Trying to force people to play the game

CHRIST STOP THIS, WE LITERALLY CANNOT ENFORCE IT PEOPLE JUST DISCONNECT

we can't stop them from NOT playing the game

but we CAN stop them from "lol gonna ghost to deny the greentexts and then roll event antag and play some more :^)"

Is there any way to code in a little tidbit that prevents respawns if a person ghosted while alive? If they actually died or committed suicide, fine, but if they ghosted the game should actively prevent them from getting back into the round via drones, swarmers, xenos and any other spawn.

No, because then sec will buckle-straightjacket-morphine-N2O traitors leaving the traitor's only options as ghost or disconnect
Which is shit, by the way. The valid hunting attitude should never go that far OOC.

If anything abductor scoring should change. There is a difference between a catatonic humans and humaned monkeys right? If so just let them score brain dead and catonics.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Davidchan wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:

oranges wrote:>Trying to force people to play the game

CHRIST STOP THIS, WE LITERALLY CANNOT ENFORCE IT PEOPLE JUST DISCONNECT

we can't stop them from NOT playing the game

but we CAN stop them from "lol gonna ghost to deny the greentexts and then roll event antag and play some more :^)"

Is there any way to code in a little tidbit that prevents respawns if a person ghosted while alive? If they actually died or committed suicide, fine, but if they ghosted the game should actively prevent them from getting back into the round via drones, swarmers, xenos and any other spawn.

No, because then sec will buckle-straightjacket-morphine-N2O traitors leaving the traitor's only options as ghost or disconnect
Which is shit, by the way. The valid hunting attitude should never go that far OOC.

If the AI wasn't such a bitch about executions that wouldn't be a problem.

Malkevin wrote:If the AI didn't follow its laws, that wouldn't be a problem.

Fixed that for you.

Maybe if you ghost, someone else gets offered control of your body?

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Davidchan wrote:

iamgoofball wrote:

oranges wrote:>Trying to force people to play the game

CHRIST STOP THIS, WE LITERALLY CANNOT ENFORCE IT PEOPLE JUST DISCONNECT

we can't stop them from NOT playing the game

but we CAN stop them from "lol gonna ghost to deny the greentexts and then roll event antag and play some more :^)"

Is there any way to code in a little tidbit that prevents respawns if a person ghosted while alive? If they actually died or committed suicide, fine, but if they ghosted the game should actively prevent them from getting back into the round via drones, swarmers, xenos and any other spawn.

No, because then sec will buckle-straightjacket-morphine-N2O traitors leaving the traitor's only options as ghost or disconnect
Which is shit, by the way. The valid hunting attitude should never go that far OOC.

My god. The idea of not getting to play in the round anymore if you got caught by sec as the bad guy?

Dear god!

it's less that and more that it's borderline metagaming/grudging
ICly, sec doesnt know that if a traitor ghosts he could maybe potentially come back as a side antag if RNG shines on him.

Yeah, I'm 99% certain that your example is against the rules, leaving a person bucklecuffed and N2O'd, let alone how extreme that example is. This is /tg/ if sec thinks they have a valid they will kill said valid the first chance they get. Worst case scenario if they didn't want someone coming back as a side antag they'd borg said traitor or throw them in perma and keep a close eye on them. Putting someone in perpetual stasis definitely falls under Rule #1.

And if you don't like someone wasting your time and wasting 10-20 minutes of a round by doing such dickish behavior, then don't do it to Abductors or antags who need to capture people. It's the exact same principal, they put in some amount of effort to get you, they succeeded, and you're going to cheese it by ghosting on the spot? I'd be full support for Ding Dong Bannu.

Just let abductors score braindeads and catatonics like the first thing I thought when I heard they couldn't is that it could be abused and here it has been.

iamgoofball wrote:keep in mind there's a difference between "erp surgery" and "changing every visual aspect of someone so when you toss them back on station nobody knows who they are and are vomiting spiders"

one is creepy, one is a funny gimmick for abductors

A little creepyness isn't always bad for the game.

I get TG will never be a scary server or even codebase, but this is definitely one of the reasons. Horror involves being forcefully taken outside your comfort zone, not exactly possible if we create rules so everybody can stay in their safe space without getting triggered; smh fam.