/tg/Station 13

Nuke ops scale. Great. When there's a lot of crew, it only makes sense that flukes need proper numbers and equipment. They only scale up. That's some bullshit. Nuke ops don't really require that many people to fire as a roundtype, so often we see nuke ops in low-ish pop just streamroll through any opposition through sheer numbers and their 30 TCs. I suggest giving the ops either lower TCs in case of lowpop, or fewer members than five.

In extreme lowpop, task a single crewmember with arming the self-destruct.

Syndicate budget cuts FTW.

I thought the whole point of nuke op scaling was to balance lowp ops from rolling over everyone

Wyzack wrote:I thought the whole point of nuke op scaling was to balance lowp ops from rolling over everyone

I thought the point was to fix both lowpop and highpop winrates.

Scaling should be between 3 and 8 in my opinion.

http://ss13.eu/tgdb/tg/latest_stats.htm ... _emergency

>90% winrate at 20-29 players

>25% winrate at 50+ players

Nuke op scaling is non existent

One operative per ten players, maybe?

Too hard to code tbh.

Something like this will be in datum antags when/if finished properly.

But it's not exactly hard to code. Just look to see how its done with head revs.

Every time I hear about datum antags, it feels like getting envelopes with bits of a kidnapped person.

nuke ops should just get larger the bigger population the station has, so when we have 85 or so people they're 15 feet tall and can throw space boulders

Super Aggro Crag wrote:nuke ops should just get larger the bigger population the station has, so when we have 85 or so people they're 15 feet tall and can throw space boulders

when we have 15 people they can be stepped on like cockroaches

I don't know what half of you are on about but the core idea of Nuke Ops scaling (which I've been harping on about for months) is to only send in about two to three Ops at low pop while you send in six or seven Ops for high pop.

The idea here is to normalize the win rates somewhat instead of it being horribly skewed.

If we did it for revheads, I don't see how it can be hard to do for ops.

lumipharon wrote:If we did it for revheads, I don't see how it can be hard to do for ops.

Well the tricky bit is that for revheads we make three revheads, hand out jobs, then if station can't support all three remove one or two of them before they're ever made aware of the fact that they're revheads.

But with offstation antags we can't use that "temporary assignment" trick, because even if we removed those slots the affected players wouldn't have jobs. They could be given jobs, but they'd get the short end of the draw because most of the slots would have been taken in the initial draw they already missed because they were assigned offstation antag. There's some reworking to be done here, but antag selection should definitely stay ahead of job selection, or no one will play sec again.

Sec is already understaffed on all but the most populated rounds as is, definitely keep antag selection first so people can queue up for sec without worrying about being shafted out of an antag role.

You don't even have to worry about number of sec players or whatever. Just keep it damn simple.

If there are only 20 people playing, it can be nuke ops. Common sense and experience says there is unlikely to be more than 1 or maybe 2 if you're lucky sec players.
2 nuke ops vs 18 crew, most of whom won't have proper weapons, seems far fairer then 5 ops vs 15 crew, does it not?

Like seriously, just scale it directly off total player pop - 1 op per 10 dudes or whatever, and tc's scaled in a similar way. You can still buy more dudes in the uplink/declare war if you want more shit/dudes.

If you want an actual formula I think:

Ops=1+number of players/10

And rounded down would be a good formula

that means 3 ops at 20 players but also 3 ops at 29 players.

2 ops vs 27 crew is just a tad too little.

3 ops at 20-29 pop is fine
4 ops at 30-39 pop is fine
5 ops at 40-49 pop is fine
6 ops at 50-59 pop is fine

etc

CosmicScientist wrote:So maybe this then CPTANT?
Nuke Ops chosen at players >= 20:
players = input;
bonus_op = 1;
players_per_op = 10;

num_ops = ( (players - (players mod players_per_op)) / players_per_op) + bonus_op;

Yes that seems to be a correct implementation.

Something like that can also easily be adjusted if it turns out that ops are still too strong/weak in either high or low pop.