/tg/Station 13

Pop ups. First, you had to just push enter to approve your candidature. It favored the autists who don't browse the internets while dead, and those that turn on macros for autoclicking (filthy hackers). Its warning sound was largely indistinct too. Now we have different prompt, you can't push enter anymore, you have to mouse click on "ok". It's less predicable, but problems remain.

So, here's what I postulate. Let all sorts of antags, including sentient monsters, ert and other meme events be on opt-in basis, just like normal antags. And then when antag is chosen randomly have a pop up for 10 seconds to confirm it, so the person can refuse the antag if he or she doesn't want it, or new antag can be chosen is the person is afk.

Lumbermancer wrote:Pop ups. First, you had to just push enter to approve your candidature. It favored the autists who don't browse the internets while dead, and those that turn on macros for autoclicking (filthy hackers). Its warning sound was largely indistinct too. Now we have different prompt, you can't push enter anymore, you have to mouse click on "ok". It's less predicable, but problems remain.

So, here's what I postulate. Let all sorts of antags, including sentient monsters, ert and other meme events be on opt-in basis, just like normal antags. And then when antag is chosen randomly have a pop up for 10 seconds to confirm it, so the person can refuse the antag if he or she doesn't want it, or new antag can be chosen is the person is afk.

Yeah I never really understood why not all role candidacies are handled like with xenos. You turn on the preference and get directly spawned in as soon as there is a viable mob to jump to.

Because we don't want 5000 different preference options that are literally newbie traps that exist mainly to keep them from actually getting to play xeno.

Why was this a needed change at all

Isnt low ping bias still a problem?

ShadowDimentio wrote:Why was this a needed change at all

typing anything while the byond popup appeared was accepted as a Yes, which meant you'd be getting a lot of roles you didn't intend to roll for.
with our own popups, they don't take the focus away from the current windows, allowing you to type fine.
Our custom ones also auto-close if the popup is based around a timed window (eg: 10 seconds to decide if you want to be Ian!) and that time runs out, this stops you being disappointed about clicking popups that had been open the entire time you'd been AFK.

Lumbermancer wrote:So, here's what I postulate. Let all sorts of antags, including sentient monsters, ert and other meme events be on opt-in basis, just like normal antags. And then when antag is chosen randomly have a pop up for 10 seconds to confirm it, so the person can refuse the antag if he or she doesn't want it, or new antag can be chosen is the person is afk.

This is how it should be.

MisterPerson wrote:Because we don't want 5000 different preference options that are literally newbie traps that exist mainly to keep them from actually getting to play xeno.

Come on guy, there are 18 antag options already, you think four or five more would make that big of a difference? You think Xeno is harder than shadowling or god's hand?

18 is already way too many. I don't mind them existing, I mind them defaulting off. There's no indication to new players that they need to do something to become an antag. Textbook newbie trap.

That's retarded reasoning. It's nothing obscure, it's a button in Preferences. If you can't expect a random person to figure this shit out, they shouldn't be playing this game anyways.

MisterPerson wrote:

Lumbermancer wrote:

MisterPerson wrote:Because we don't want 5000 different preference options that are literally newbie traps that exist mainly to keep them from actually getting to play xeno.

Come on guy, there are 18 antag options already, you think four or five more would make that big of a difference? You think Xeno is harder than shadowling or god's hand?

18 is already way too many. I don't mind them existing, I mind them defaulting off. There's no indication to new players that they need to do something to become an antag. Textbook newbie trap.

Yeah sure lets have it so that Pubbie McFirstGame's options default to having all antag options set to 'yes' by default and get bombarded with new rules before they even have a grasp of basic game mechanics so they can burst in the hall as blob/shoot their teammates in nuke/hatch in the bar as shadowling, promptly get fucking atomized because they have no idea what they're doing, and leave the game forever.

What are you fucking talking about

The antag system we have in place is perfect. Newbies get to play as a relatively uncomplicated crewmember up until they feel ready to try their hand at antag, and set it themselves. If they can't figure that out, they ask either in OOC, adminhelp, or IC how to cut it on, whereupon they get an answer.

Basically, if you're not good enough to know how to either set your antag to yes or ask how to do it, you shouldn't be fucking playing antag.

I think Head roles are disabled for new players on the server for the X period, right? Ain't Antag roles the same? If not, they should be. The more "difficult" ones. Problem solved.

I don't see why a final solution is needed for any of this. Iteratively improving on the system is working fine, and there are plenty of antag prompts where it's fine to have a pop up looking for interested players rather than the opposite. Can you imagine if someone wanted a holoparasite and it picked 5 people, all of whom didn't want it? They'd be waiting quite a while for someone to finally agree to play for them if the system was one of rejection and not acceptance.

That's a not even remotely realistic. Everyone who ghosts or suicides at around start is a powergamer and antag-fisher. You won't ever have problems getting parasite.

Well, I observe a fair bit, and I'm often not interested in these roles. I'm sure a number of people aren't. I do, however, keep my preferences for them for two reasons, (1) because I decide whether I want to or not at the time, and (2) so that I know how often these roles are coming up. I can then follow them or whatever.

Now, let's suppose that there are 20 ghosts. Of them, 15 have holoparasite toggled on. Of that, 7 are interested in playing as one, and 7 just want to watch. Of that 15, a number also aren't paying attention: they may have it open in a second screen, be having a bathroom break, having a conversation, whatever.

If the system just picks one out of the 15, it stands a good chance of selecting someone who wasn't interested. They may even be unaware they've been picked. So, either they select no immediately, or if they were afk the system waits 10 seconds to exit them from the holoparasite. They may even not notice the prompt and have wanted it, although this is perhaps less likely.

You then have to roll again. Still good chances of getting someone that didn't want it. It's not implausible that this could happen several times before holoparasite gets taken by someone that actually wanted it in the first place. Lots of people will want it, but plenty with holoparasite toggled on also won't.

This is why an opt-in toggle makes more sense. Everyone that wants one will click the button, and it therefore automatically filters out everyone that didn't want to be a holoparasite and everyone that wasn't paying attention. I can't see how your proposed system is in any way better, unless somehow pushing 'yes' on a prompt is some really bothersome task: you'll have to click 'yes' anyway, except this time you'll be pushed into the holoparasite whether you're sure about it or not.