/tg/Station 13

How much leeway should people who get demoted have to fuck with the person who demoted them, up to and including theft/murder? I can see both sides to this:

1. Theoretically -- THEORETICALLY -- the entire "IC consequences" system relies on there being an ability to demote people who are being shit, insubordinate, a burden on everyone else, etc. Unfortunately, this happens comparatively rarely because too many people see demotion as their head handing them a great big license to griff. Depending on the department, heads of staff may also be relatively undefended. One of the reasons I hate playing head of staff is because if I have to demote someone then I know I'm going to spend my entire round having to defend myself from their stunprod-and/or-illicit-access-based-griff. (They also tend to create more work for admins.)

2. That said, this is one of the few genuine sources of conflict that does not revolve around antags, and in extreme cases like mutiny make for some of the more interesting rounds. Do we really want to get rid of that?

So yeah, I'm not sure where I personally stand on this after thinking about it, no matter how annoying it is. Hence this topic.

Killing someone *just* for demoting you is too far in my opinion. Roughing them up and breaking their stuff is fine but don't kill the bugger. Unless you're an antag in which case do what the fuck you want

Anonmare wrote:Killing someone *just* for demoting you is too far in my opinion. Roughing them up and breaking their stuff is fine but don't kill the bugger. Unless you're an antag in which case do what the fuck you want

On the other hand, if you rough them up and break their stuff, that lets them escalate to murder.

If someone is being demoted then there's usually a damn good reason for it, usually due to said person being utterly not only incompetent but hostile and malicous.

Now you want to actually give a way for someone to IC escalate something to assault and murder by being maliciously incompetent?

Can I demote the OP?

When possible I always try to limit revenge of any sort, including for demotion, to material damage only, minimal theft and no bodies. Smashing the entire brig front with an axe, welding all the doors, that sort of thing.

You being a shit head gets you demoted, thus you justify that to be even MORE of a shit head?

Maybe demotions should just place you into the Gulag, save us all the trouble.

Steelpoint wrote:You being a shit head gets you demoted, thus you justify that to be even MORE of a shit head?

Maybe demotions should just place you into the Gulag, save us all the trouble.

I've seen demotions for 'Not doing R&D right', 'Using the labor camp on a traitor', and 'Because you're a faggot'

Adminhelp them for abusing their head authority and maybe they'll get a head jobban. Dealing with it IC gives the impression that FNR demotions are acceptable.

Thunder11 wrote:When possible I always try to limit revenge of any sort, including for demotion, to material damage only, minimal theft and no bodies. Smashing the entire brig front with an axe, welding all the doors, that sort of thing.

You're the reason why when I fire someone from sec its either firing them handcuffed out the mass driver or pressed against the bulk head for a death by firing squad

Depending if you were demoted for a valid reason or not. For instance, stripping all access from a random engineer and giving him a fucktarded name FNR? Valid as salad for the engineer, imho.

80% of people I demote instantly start to disarm/punch me as soon as I remove their cuffs.

Since I often play security I just throw them in the gulag for 500 points for assaulting an officer.

80% of those put in the gulag that way go braindead or suicide within a minute.

It takes like 20 minutes to get 500 points from the gulag. That's almost half of most rounds, so it's more appropriate to just gib people than gulag them.

Zilenan91 wrote:It takes like 20 minutes to get 500 points from the gulag. That's almost half of most rounds, so it's more appropriate to just gib people than gulag them.

If it takes you 20 minutes to fill 500 points its a bad case of doing it wrong.

If you breach a cave literally the entire gulag dies because there are no space suits and it isn't pressurized, so you have to go around all the caves and hope there isn't any gibtonite in your way, otherwise it's a slow, unavoidable death.

or you can just dig sand and get 1000 points super fast.

Also the OP is asking the wrong question.
It's all about context.

If you get demoted for no good reason (doing your job but in a way your head does like, for example a different cryo mix or whatever), would make getting some form of revenge on them A-ok.
If you're being a shit/not doing your job, and get demoted for it, if you decide that's valid reason to assault your head or whatever, then really you should be perma'd for being a massive shitter, if not banned for griefing/kill-baiting or whatever.

Zilenan91 wrote:It takes like 20 minutes to get 500 points from the gulag. That's almost half of most rounds, so it's more appropriate to just gib people than gulag them.

Dig 9 squares of rock --> Dig out sand.

Repeat.

If you aim your digging towards patches of iron then it'll take like... maybe 5 minutes.

Noone tell the sec officers this though they might use the gulag even less somehow.

I think you mean, "no one tell the shitlers", otherwise they might actually earn their freedom rather then just suiciding and saving sec a headache later.

Demotion in itself is a form of IC escalation, but I find being a shitter to the person who demoted you is in extremely bad taste and just terrible sportmanship. Especially if it's just a continuation of whatever you did that got you demoted in the first place, then it's a case of "durr my character is just so crazy".

The proper way to demote someone is to bait them into attacking you and then strip stun and space them.

~ShadowDimentio's EZ Guide to Dealing with Shitters~

1: Dumb Player Tier) If someone is being a shit, tell them to fuck off and stop being shit. Remove them from the area via disposals or stuns/cuffs if avaliable and needed. Do NOT steal their equipment unless you need it.

2: Greytider Tier) If they keep being a shit, beat them up until they run off and hopefully stop being shit. Security may throw a shitfit about this so witnesses should stay handy.

3: Hardcore Shitter Tier) If it continues, force them to stop by stealing 'confiscating' what they're using to be shit, be that their ID or equipment. Crit them if needed but take them to medbay after.

4: Buttblasted Powergamer Tier) If they come back after that, they've become shit beyond redemption. Permanently remove them from the round via your local airloack, incinerator, or gibber. Make sure no borgs are around to interfere.

Skip down the list as the shittiness scales up, but save the most severe punishments for those who most severely need it. Most shitters stop far before they must be forcefully ejected from the round via airlock.

Most importantly: Don't stoop to their level. You aren't the shitter, they are. If you fail and manage to fall at the hands of the shitter, being buttblasted is expected, but keep it to deadchat.

also you can just call security (or a secborg)

if they hurt you, call the cyborg valid police to clean them up

ez

Cik wrote:also you can just call security (or a secborg)

if they hurt you, call the cyborg valid police to clean them up

ez

When 2 sides are accusing the other of being shit, it's very hard for security to tell apart who is actually being shit and handle the case. Also cases like that usually result in sentences of 2 minutes or so for "assault".