/tg/Station 13

Why would you remove flying to Derelict?

It's an unused feature, that isn't being used or abused, isn't bloating the code, and is just taking out an option that hypothetically could be used to do cool stuff.

Like, ops could go to Derelict, then fly to the white ship, and have the white ship dock and pretend it's an admin event where they are going to do X-Y-Z. Or steal the medibot parts to put a medibot on their shuttle. All these actions are "prepwork", which has an opportunity cost, so it may look like they are getting it for free, but every minute spent doing that is a minute where Genetics is researching, science is researching, robotics is making beepskies, and so on, which would make it more difficult for the operatives to do their job. And if they show up really late, they can be given a 5 minute and 20 second time limit, as they are red-alerted and shuttle evacuated early.

So flying to the sattelite, breaking in and getting the board may look free, but it isn't. Flying to Derelict is an underused feature which wasn't being exploited, and removing it is pointless.

Secondly. Let's look at the stats as to how many Operatives actually buy the teleporter board, because I am betting that it will be very little.
If that is the case, you'll have just taken away more options as to what operatives can do, and pigeonhole them for no reason.

Here is the PR, by Kor, that removed the ability for Ops to go to these destinations: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13529

It seems like the only compelling reason as to why it was removed was due to the presence of a teleport board on one of the Satellite's.

What strikes me is that if that was the problem why not simply remove the board or move it to a harder to reach location instead of removing player choice from the Nuke Ops?

Steelpoint wrote:Here is the PR, by Kor, that removed the ability for Ops to go to these destinations: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13529

It seems like the only compelling reason as to why it was removed was due to the presence of a teleport board on one of the Satellite's.

What strikes me is that if that was the problem why not simply remove the board or move it to a harder to reach location instead of removing player choice from the Nuke Ops?

Removing the teleporter board from the derelict just makes exploring space for everyone else a bigger pain than it already is as well as making the drone shells that spawn on the derelict essentially useless.

nty

Put a special proximity anti nuke op mine in the derelict teleporter. Eh it's something.

If the Ops want to expend five minutes to get a teleport board then why not?

Why would you punish the ops for thinking outside the box?

It's not like it's a free grab, it still takes some effort to put the shit together, and I can tell you right now 99% of ops wouldn't have the patience to allow it to happen.

CosmicScientist wrote:

Kangaraptor wrote:Why would you punish the ops for thinking outside the box?

It's not like it's a free grab, it still takes some effort to put the shit together, and I can tell you right now 99% of ops wouldn't have the patience to allow it to happen.

One of the reasons on the PR is because the crew don't have the patience for Ops to show up later than the start of the round.

That would be a acceptable complaint if the server was hosting Nuke Ops 24/7, but we don't so its irrelevant.

CosmicScientist wrote:

Kangaraptor wrote:Why would you punish the ops for thinking outside the box?

It's not like it's a free grab, it still takes some effort to put the shit together, and I can tell you right now 99% of ops wouldn't have the patience to allow it to happen.

One of the reasons on the PR is because the crew don't have the patience for Ops to show up later than the start of the round.

That's a shit complaint and shouldn't be grounds for a PR.

Remove PR post-haste.

Ops taking derelict board is not thinking outside of the box, it is done so often that it is one of the main ways to enter the station.

Alls that ops flying to the sattelite or derelict does is extend the round while ops get lost on their own little space adventure.

CosmicScientist wrote: One of the reasons on the PR is because the crew don't have the patience for Ops to show up later than the start of the round.

That was not actually one of my reasons. Please dont attribute random PR comments to me.

Eh its fine by me.

It fits into a good balance philosophy. Nukeops thought outside the box and they were rewarded with not just one round, but months of a tactic that made them extremely difficult to stop (especially if they just camped out with a camera bug and just insta-gibbed the captain once he stepped on the bridge and then ops swoop in and yank the disk out of some maint. room that nobody else can track).

Now its not thinking out of the box, its standard procedure for teleport ops and while its not a big deal (tele-Ops rely on surprise and confusion, not backpacks full of ammo and goodies), it's also not a big deal to remove something that makes the tactic even easier while also delaying the nukeop assault for no particular reason (you're not going to make meaningful progress in your dept. during an op round, so having everyone sit around an extra 5 minutes on the pretense of an ordinary round isn't a good thing).

You bring up thinking outside the box but this cuts off every single option from those 2 z-levels to spite a single tactic which fell into the syndicate playbook. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face when it comes to syndicate interaction.

Okay, I'll bite.

What other options did those z-levels enable that wasn't stealing a teleporter board?

For the derelict the SWAT helmet/baton I guess but no ops ever realistically powergamed hard enough to go steal the swat helmet because of the armor values. So the teleboard was about it.

Takeguru wrote:Okay, I'll bite.

What other options did those z-levels enable that wasn't stealing a teleporter board?

Alternate space suits. I know mining always works for suits, but sometimes there are 3 miners at round start. This is especially important because Void jetpack+suit allows for high mobility without instant "call the shuttle its a syndi.
Derelict has all medbot parts. Sometimes people come back to the shuttle injured, that lets them get free healing. The white ship can just be used for fun as another space ship, and allows plenty of tactics by itself.
Derelict has a full plasma tank. Could be used for chaos purposes.

Lets also not forget, white ship has retro laser gun and med hardsuits.

Nuke op rounds will be better off without this.

Nuke ops using a teleporter is an extremely powerful tool, that should rightly cost the ops a considerable chunk of their tc's.
Hell, even WITH the high cost, as oldman said, a camera bug can be used to basically just wait for the opportune time to gangbang the captain without any real chance to do anything.

I don't even know why the derelict and sat got added as destinations for the nuke ship.
Manually flying into space to get a teleboard is thinking outside of the box.
Flying your ship to a pre-loaded destination and just picking it up is not.

I just found out that Ops can't fly to Mining.
What the FUCK Kor?

Why would the ops need to fly to the derelict

iamgoofball wrote:Why would the ops need to fly to the derelict

baton toolbox spacesuit(s) emp grenade camera console plasma

Remember, no fun allowed!

Helios wrote:I just found out that Ops can't fly to Mining.
What the FUCK Kor?

possible_destinations = "syndicate_away;syndicate_z5;syndicate_ne;syndicate_nw;syndicate_n;syndicate_se;syndicate_sw;syndicate_s"


>z5

Wasn't me

Also half my motivation for replacing the teleporter with a pod was to end telebombing, so I still don't really want to put them back.

Kor wrote:

Helios wrote:I just found out that Ops can't fly to Mining.
What the FUCK Kor?

possible_destinations = "syndicate_away;syndicate_z5;syndicate_ne;syndicate_nw;syndicate_n;syndicate_se;syndicate_sw;syndicate_s"


>z5

Wasn't me

So who took out flying to mining?

Could be a bug, but check git

Docking port is missing, likely accidently removed when asteroid was remapped in https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13574

Fix https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/14090

Kor wrote:Also half my motivation for replacing the teleporter with a pod was to end telebombing, so I still don't really want to put them back.

About that pod, could you please pressurize the pod hangar? Having to deal with all that spacewind is very annoying. It is also a major pain for syndicate reinforcements because they spawn without a suit. Also the syndicate outpost depressurises which is annoying.

CPTANT wrote:

Kor wrote:Also half my motivation for replacing the teleporter with a pod was to end telebombing, so I still don't really want to put them back.

About that pod, could you please pressurize the pod hangar? Having to deal with all that spacewind is very annoying. It is also a major pain for syndicate reinforcements because they spawn without a suit. Also the syndicate outpost depressurises which is annoying.

Fixed. Now a little walkway to enter the pod. If people still somehow depressurize it I'll look into other ways to fix it.