rev_benji, Laz0r - metafriending

[J_Madison]

Your byond account: Akesson
Your character name: assumed control of others, doesn't matter.
Their character name: Benji Lafortune and Thomas Laser
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): rev_benji and Laz0r
Server and time: 02:42 Sybil 01/12/2015 GMT.
Logs and/or screenshots:

Near roundstart, Thomas Laser handing out armoury to Dante Smith freely.

Mid-round, Benji taking Dante away and being his personal buddy.

Description of what happened:
Was ghost, became gang.
Dante was given weapons freely by the HOS, Thomas Laser.
Dante was later killed, immediately his body was dragged off by 3 sec even though none of them had been there or knew about the fight that was occuring.
Dante was cloned, but later captured. Naked.
He was kept in the bar, nobody had seen this except gang members.
I leave for less than 1 minute. The result is somehow the HOS and several sec members are in the bar raiding EXACTLY where we kept Dante.
Benji Lafortune runs in, grabs dante, and effectively buddies him around afterward, uncuffing and taking him to medbay.

Why they should be banned:
Metagaming.
Metafriending, according to the rules isn't bannable.

So what is the line for metafriending?
Handing out guns freely?
Stopping what you're doing and going to wherever they scream help from when they do so?
Don't hear to see your friend for 20 seconds? Go search tooth and nail for them?

Come on, if this isn't metabudding what're the limits until you step in?

[Zilenan91]

So Benji runs in to save Dante in several fights he didn't even know were going on?

If that doesn't sound fishy then I don't know the meaning of the word.

Also what did Laz0r have to do with any of this, all he did was hand out guns to someone, which at the very most is a HoS ban if anyone cares enough, after that he was just doing his job.

[Laz0rgrunt]

Let me explain why you're wrong.
1. Dante at roundstart asked for guns to fight a supposed Wizard, and I was interested in providing, but the Captain declined. Benji gave the guns to Dante regardless and I soon after caught Dante and removed his guns.
2. Any involvement with me at the Bar was simply because I was called there.
3. Benji was handing guns out on assumption of there being a Wizard, as I said before, it was called out. Simply a mistake on his part.
4. I think I've played here long enough to know that meta-gaming in this sense is a very, very bad thing to do.

[onleavedontatme]

SAY: B.u.T.T.M.A.D./Atlanta-ned : ALERT: Unknown personnel in bar backroom. Stand down and release Dante Smith

There is a camera in there. Dunno bout the rest of it. Laser told me Rev stole the guns and handed them out.

[Doritos]

this thread was made mid-round

[J_Madison]

1. Caught dante and removed his guns. Incorrect he was armed with a taser, armour shield soon after.
2. We're talking about when we kidnapped Dante, not when you stunned me.
3. That's ridiculous, screaming wizard = guns now?
4. There's a clear line between real metagaming and suspected metagaming.

It's so easy to say "oh we're friendly" or "oh there was apparently a wizard" whilst handing out guns to your friend.

The report still stands. This is extreme lengths people treat eachother differently which is unfair to other players and uses out of game knowledge (he's my buddy) to make a decision.

[Doritos]

I and another assistant yelled about wizards, then told the HoS to hand out guns for the crew.

I was then arrested by him and had my guns taken away.

Then, since there were gangs about the captain implanted me, let me go and gave me a gun anyway.

And yes usually when there's a wizard running around you hand out guns??

I don't really care about this thread and Laz0r killed me one round so ban him plx.

[iamgoofball]

this thread was made mid-round

this is lies, escape shuttle had docked/was about to dock at CC in a minute, which by that point no one really gives a fuck since round's literally about to end anyways

[rev_benji]

I handed out no guns. I rescued dante because he had implanted me shortly after I joined the round and he seemed to be actively fighting gangs. He said "bar back room" over the radio, thats how I knew he was there. I gave him my stuff after I rescued and healed him because he had nothing and I didn't feel like fighting.

this thread is top kek

[J_Madison]

I and another assistant yelled about wizards, then told the HoS to hand out guns for the crew.

Oh is that the excuse? Call whatever you like and get guns?

I haven't seen that work on a normal round when others called it, so why this?

[J_Madison]

I handed out no guns. I rescued dante because he had implanted me shortly after I joined the round and he seemed to be actively fighting gangs. He said "bar back room" over the radio, thats how I knew he was there. I gave him my stuff after I rescued and healed him because he had nothing and I didn't feel like fighting.

this thread is top kek

he was naked and cuffed. Absolutely no way he had access to a radio

[rev_benji]

[Common] Dante Smith gibbers, "Bar back room"

I can post full logs if needed.

Maybe he used 'say ":i Bar back room"' that uses wall intercoms if you get close enough and works even if you're cuffed.

y so salt?

[onleavedontatme]

I do remember him yelling over the radio about Immo Late being a gang head in medbay.

So do other people according to the logs.

[02:28:49]ADMIN: HELP: LeadActorInFamilyGuyPorno/(Bernie Calzone): Hey quick question: How is Dante Smith able to yell out for help over radio while he's been freshly cloned, not equipped with a radio and not near an intercomm that's been turned on? What's he doing to do that? - heard by 1 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.

[02:29:50]ADMIN: PM: Shaps/(Phoebe Lotsu)->LeadActorInFamilyGuyPorno/(Bernie Calzone): no clue, maybe a nearby station bounced radio?

[02:30:14]ADMIN: PM: LeadActorInFamilyGuyPorno/(Bernie Calzone)->Shaps/(Phoebe Lotsu): I didn't see one at the time in the bar back room where we kept him

[02:30:58]ADMIN: PM: Shaps/(Phoebe Lotsu)->LeadActorInFamilyGuyPorno/(Bernie Calzone): no clue, I wasn't there to see it

[02:40:12]SAY: Ghost/LeadActorInFamilyGuyPorno : Hey Benji, when you saw me baton myself in the back bar room, did you see a Station Bounced Radio floating around?

[oranges]

If he was yelling over the radio then most surely it would be logged?

[J_Madison]

Doesn't match up to the fact you emptied the armoury and handed out weapons to someone on the grounds they shouted "wizard".

Continuing on that, it doesn't explain why you never came to the rescue of the two other sec officers that died, but magically came charging in for Dante?

[Zilenan91]

Afaik on every other map the bar back room doesn't have an intercom. Could be dream is different and Madison is mistaken.

[Doritos]

[Common] Dante Smith gibbers, "Bar back room"

I can post full logs if needed.

Maybe he used 'say ":i Bar back room"' that uses wall intercoms if you get close enough and works even if you're cuffed.

y so salt?

fuck dude don't give my secrets away now everyone will look out for this

[rev_benji]

I hesitated before posting that... but the plebs were so confused.

I never touched the armory. Only gun I handed out was an empty pistol I found on the ground when I gave dante all my stuff

edit: I wasn't paying that much attention to the game, I just happened to see everyone raising hell about dante when he was kidnapped. I didn't know about the other officers

edit again: I also gave away my ID, could have been someone else

[Cobby]

Are you telling me when it's a wizard round you don't distribute the guns before the wizard jaunts into armory?

That's not metafriending, that's smart.

The only 'crime' Laser did was trust 2 static namers that are typically helpful. He even went after the guns he gave out because he realized the calls are false.

[iamgoofball]

I'm linking this image for archival purposes. I believe it implies you two know a bit more about eachother than you should when it comes to ingame stuff.

How is it that you "guessed" he used the :i method to use the wall intercom? How did you know he used the wall intercom in the first place? We removed radio icons. You have no way of knowing he used the intercom.

The immediate reply about "spoiling my secrets" makes it really suspicious also. The reply to that about "letting the plebs know" is fucking insulting and you should just fuck off with that shit.

[rev_benji]

lol

I "guessed" using logical deduction
he was naked and cuffed
he said something on the radio
the only way to do that is be near an active radio or use :i

[peoplearestrange]

I'm linking this image for archival purposes. I believe it implies you two know a bit more about eachother than you should when it comes to ingame stuff.

How is it that you "guessed" he used the :i method to use the wall intercom? How did you know he used the wall intercom in the first place? We removed radio icons. You have no way of knowing he used the intercom.

The immediate reply about "spoiling my secrets" makes it really suspicious also. The reply to that about "letting the plebs know" is fucking insulting and you should just fuck off with that shit.

Goofball your are missing the point here, the issue is not that they are friends, its that they used that friendship to gain and unfair advantage.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Bar Backroom on Dream has an intercom, usable with :i from at least three spaces that can be accessed.

I was the AI from that round, trying to recall what I saw fwiw:
Dante shouts wizard in maint, can't track him
HoS asks the captain if he can hand out lasers. I'm Asimov so I immediately jump down the HoS' throat not to do that. Captain says no, I pan over to the brig
Dante Smith is there, receiving guns as depicted in the first screenshot
It becomes immediately obvious that there is in fact, no wizard, and Dante now has most of the armory on his person(?)
I chide the HoS and command for being dummies
A few minutes later, gang tags start going up across the station
Dante is apprehended, relieved of his armory(?) and dragged around the brig until someone implants him, arms him and tosses him out
At some point, he dies and gets cloned. As soon as he pops out, a gangster starts trying to convert him. Dante screams about the gang head.
I fuck around with some other bullcrap and hear Dante screaming again, this time in the bar backroom, which is where this happens:

SAY: B.u.T.T.M.A.D./Atlanta-ned : ALERT: Unknown personnel in bar backroom. Stand down and release Dante Smith

For the (?) parts, I'm not clear on who had the armory. I was under the impression that it was Dante, but it may have been someone else.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

This looks to me like an idiot warden believing a shitter about a fake wizard, followed by security making a tactical move to secure a valuable resource (Namely a robust dude) from a suspected ganghead's clutches

[J_Madison]

This looks to me like an idiot warden believing a shitter about a fake wizard, followed by security making a tactical move to secure a valuable resource (Namely a robust dude) from a suspected ganghead's clutches

The catch is that it wasn't the Warden but the HOS, and the HOS is someone known to be friends and highly cooperates with a group of players proven by logs and previous rounds.

[Cobby]

I'm linking this image for archival purposes. I believe it implies you two know a bit more about eachother than you should when it comes to ingame stuff.

How is it that you "guessed" he used the :i method to use the wall intercom? How did you know he used the wall intercom in the first place? We removed radio icons. You have no way of knowing he used the intercom.

The immediate reply about "spoiling my secrets" makes it really suspicious also. The reply to that about "letting the plebs know" is fucking insulting and you should just fuck off with that shit.

Is this a memepost?

The :i method is the ONLY way he could have communicated. There was no radio as people were very quick to point out because 'HE MUST BE METAGAMing11!!' and now that he gives you a reasonable guess as to what Dante did it now becomes 'HE MUST OF KNOWN HOW HE DID IT BECAUSE HE METAGAMING11!!!'? That looks more suspicious than anything in this thread.

This looks to me like an idiot warden believing a shitter about a fake wizard, followed by security making a tactical move to secure a valuable resource (Namely a robust dude) from a suspected ganghead's clutches

The catch is that it wasn't the Warden but the HOS, and the HOS is someone known to be friends and highly cooperates with a group of players proven by logs and previous rounds.

Just because the same people are involved across multiple rounds, that doesn't mean metafriending. That's just a result from static names.

There's also the case of "hot picks" for team conversion modes. I can assure you that if Grey McRandom and Dante were both ready for [de]convert, I would convert Dante first because I know how robust he is compared to some guy I've never seen. Again, that's not metafriending, that's a benefit [or a curse if you're unrobust I guess] of having a static name.

[FamilyManPornoMan]

Hi, I actually have the log from this round if anyone cares.

http://puu.sh/lHHP9/0f6f1d1f02.htm

[imblyings]

Nothing is going to come from this thread.

If you have a personal crusade against someone you think is metafriending/metagaming, the trick is to not completely blow your load at the first morsel of evidence you think you have.

[imblyings]

something something new evidence, thread unlocked

[J_Madison]

The bar was lit on fire by the captain using a plasma canister that round. Power was completely out. There were no lights.

Thank you for the Puush logs. I'm now curious to why Benji did all of that for Dante, including giving him his ID and items, along with uncuffing and rescuing him.

I ask too, why Thomas Laser had opted to rescue Dante Smith over two sec officers that were being beaten to death, and had given them less weapons.

My statement still stands that though it's fine and I'm not against using the same name, but using it to gain unfair advantages or unfair treatment over others is not.

This thread is primarily about those that do that or enable that on others.



-
Oh and ausops. Don't mistake this for a crusade for a vendetta.
I've no qualms against players. And the evidence shown here and before has proven my point about overly friendly character relationships.

[imblyings]

>I ask too, why Thomas Laser had opted to rescue Dante Smith over two sec officers that were being beaten to death, and had given them less weapons.

You're in a firefight against ISIS, they have a swimming pool and cage ready for you, and you can either rescue two landwhales to fight for you or rescue superman to fight for you

As for >why Benji did all of that for Dante, including giving him his ID and items, along with uncuffing and rescuing him.

Admins will cut out friendships that go over the line, e.g. Chocolai, and I personally find it funny when people orbit Dante but unless Benji and Dante were on opposing gang sides or gang/loyalty implanted or acted like an antag/fought sec to assist Dante, helping Dante out did not break any rules. Being a well-known static name gives you a different playing experience, it's why Reed gets spared so often, it's why any officer will act differently when fighting against well known players, Oldman, Emily etc.

[J_Madison]

If what you're implying is you want me to bring evidence of meta comms or clear metagame orientated behaviour I will not be able to on the grounds it's far too easy to cover up metagaming and metafriend treatments on the basis of "role play".

Regardless, I've presented here the proof of a meta friendly relationship which affects the majority of players that are not involved. There's not only proof in gameplay but proof over logs too.

I am more concerned that by using a different name, you're able to gain an advantage over other players. As you said, using a name gives you the unfair advantage of being spared, or given free items. I don't think that's fair to treat players differently and have a double standard of treatment where players can't discriminate those names.

Players going so far as to raid departments when their metabuddy died, and watch MedBay while they're cloned is simply ridiculous and should warrant identity bans.

If being treated as a second class player is acceptable, and breaking normal gameplay on the grounds of player relationships formed out of round is acceptable, I don't want it. I don't think that should be acceptable unless rules specifically condone those relationships.

If changing how you play, act, and treat someone on the basis and grounds of a name and a playstyle is legal, state so please. The very definition of metagaming covers that changing how one plays because of pre-knowledge or relations with another player.

If /tg/ follows different conditions of metagaming, these are moot, and I'd suggest changing how it is defined as it wouldn't fit with more widely accepted descriptions and conditions for metagaming that I'm accustomed to from most other servers.

[imblyings]

The sole correct definition of metagaming that this server uses (and anywhere else tbh) is

The use of information obtained not through IC means. This server does not have enforced canon restricting what IC information is retained from each 'shift' other than players not being able to act on characters having been an antagonist in a prior round. As a result, character friendships that persist over multiple rounds do not violate the metagaming rule. Differences in how characters are treated are a consequence. Metagaming has more to do with using information obtained while observing in deadchat, as an example.

Changing how you act towards different characters has been a thing since I joined, and I'm sure since /tg/ started. It's happened to any notable static namer, from the previous server host to every circlejerk of familiar faces throughout the years. It is not possible and would be detrimental to the server, if we had to enforce each character interaction to ensure it did not differ from others. Players who have a static name, who find other static namers who they find enjoyable to play with, will treat each other differently. It's what humans do, nevermind just players from /tg/.

Like I've said many times, when players step over the line and do things like assist team antags despite being loyalty implanted, that's when admins get involved.