/tg/Station 13

Does it even exist still? I only see roundabout references to it like some kind of ancient myth.

It makes feedback harder and less informed when we're all just speculating about the strength/weakness of certain antags.

http://ss13.eu/tgdb/tg/latest_stats.html

Yep. We STILL rely on Erro for stats.

On a related note, why don't we have more random end-of-round stats?

Thanks, shadowling stats are bugged though :\

I wouldn't trust that page, it's hard to say if it's still working, maybe erro can pop in and let us know

Erro is still around maintaining that page.

Oh wow rev has an 80% win rate. Why do we keep mindlessly nerfing security?

Oh and changelings have a 9% win rate in their own round that keep every ling alive and impersonate people objective must be nasty. In traitor chang where it is mostly a solo deal it is a 16% win rate that is almost double that is.

Traitors are doing about as well as double agents at 24% so ugh.
Wizard is down to 10% win rate thanks Miauw for cheer leading screwing them at every turn.

Gang has no stats but group antags seem to be strong across the board while solo antags and security which are reportedly balanced for the sake of each other CONTINUE TO SUFFER TOGETHER.

As always, drawing conclusions on solo antag objectives is rather pointless since most players either outright ignore them or just go nuts once they're done.

That never really changed though, success still goes up and down regardless.

As for the rev result I wouldn't allege security are not trying to avoid being brutally murdered.

Need more details on Revs, really. Sec's response to Revs seems to be to hold up in the Brig, calling the heads there, then they send a strike team to cargo to get more implants.

But, at what point are heads dying the most? Which heads die first? Usually the Captain and HoS, sometimes HoP survive for quite a while. The CE is a wildcard in my observations. The CMO and RD do not stand a chance, normally.

Perhaps Security behavior is too easy to predict? On confirmation of Revs, the heads that were not jumped and killed rush to the brig for safety, and Sec sends out a force to secure cargo, sometimes moving their operations there should the brig become unsafe. The hallways and unsecured departments become slaughter pits in minutes.

I would say Spears/Embedding account for the surge in Rev win rates. Before spears became a thing, the average Rev really didn't have any tools to effectively engage security. The rounds would boil down to 3-10 revs actually making weapons/committing sabotage/stealing equipment that could defeat security and 10-30 revs who just sit back and wait for the robust revs to stun/injure a Head/Security and then run in and help bash/loot them.

Now its pretty standard for a rev to just mass produce spears in tool storage and pretty soon the entire revolution is running around with melee weapons that can one-hit KO you or be thrown to do insane brute+embed+bleeding damage.

Not saying to nerf spears, but just laying out whats going on in Rev Rounds.

One of the more critical ways to help balance Revs is to go after Rev-seekers, make announcements after rounds, announce bans, etc. and make it clear that people who intentionally get rev'd will not be tolerated. I've gone on roundstart flashing sprees and its absurd how many people will just watch you flash several people and then basically walk up to you and wait for their turn, never reporting it on radio or by PDA, some even explicitly asking.

Rev will always be heavily weighted against Loyalists if the average crewmember wants to get flashed and won't report suspicious flashing under any circumstances.

Oldman puts out some good points. Especially on people willingly allowing themselves to be converted. It's annoying when people make no effort to even talk on the radio that people are being flashed/penned/whatever in conversion rounds. This is more of a administration issue than anything else.

Security relies more on individual competence to a degree that is somewhat unreasonable. There's only so much a Taser and Stun Baton can do when you have dozens of people attacking you.

Amusingly I'm pretty sure Rev had a 90% win rate a few weeks/month ago, last time I checked.

I could always toss some auto rifles in the armoury for fun. Since it did have a statistical impact on team antag win rates, in a positive manner. But that would generate a lot of salt.

Just punish people who make no effort to even call out when they're being reved or seeing it.

You could always try re-adding those bay pistols again, or at least an energy variant of them if people still aren't willing.

The pistols would require a overhaul/fix of how our stamina damage works since stamina damage does not pair well with ballistics, and making it energy bullets is also possibly fraught with problems to the point it's easier to just make the bay pistols a alt sprite for the taser.

I don't want to harp on but I do still think the rifles did help push some game modes towards a more even win rate (Nuke Ops, Cult and similar), and that they were balanced. But I'm digressing.

Knowing that someone flashing people randomly is brainwashing them is pretty meta as a regular crewmember tbh.

Rev deserves no favours administration wise either. The design is totally out of control naked assistants need to be devalued again.

TechnoAlchemist wrote:Knowing that someone flashing people randomly is brainwashing them is pretty meta as a regular crewmember tbh.

lining up to get flashed by graytide mc graysuit for no reason is also pretty meta.

Space stations are incredibly expensive and therefore in staffing them, NT spares no expense.

As Code Blue reports remind us, this is not our first encounter with the Syndicate/Changelings/Wizards/etc.

Ergo, NT has trained all its personnel on the warnings signs, tactics and abilities for the Syndicate/Changelings/Wizards/etc.

It's not meta to know that the Syndicate has been known to disguise mind control devices inside a flash, and that an assistant running around flashing everyone in sight, something that cannot be explained as rational behavior, should be interpreted as a probable threat.


On a related note, this issue remains as bad as ever. It was never this bad a few years ago but now you can have 60+ person rounds where you get 40+ revs and yet not a single person will report flashing. My own experience as a revhead/idiot stealing a flash is that almost nobody reports it because they "know" they'll be converted soon and tipping off security only increases the chance of sec beating them later on. Admins also used to be a lot more vocal about players getting cozy with conversion antags.

As always, we can't see everything and reporting this kind of abuse is key.

Best way to catch them is to be the rev head, just note down everyone who flops like a fish then report them post round for double victory.

TechnoAlchemist wrote:Knowing that someone flashing people randomly is brainwashing them is pretty meta as a regular crewmember tbh.

One of the most hilarious things about Baystation12 is their detailed "Who can identify which traitor items" policy. They used to have a neat graphic with jobs on one axis and traitor items on another and then checkmarks as to which job can identify which items. It was hilarious and 100% impossible to memorize.

Now they just have a bunch of text descriptions which nobody in their right mind would even attempt to memorize. I'm not saying broad stroke rules about this are bad, but there comes a point where extra rules make things worse, not better. In this regard bay12 is way past that point and I really hope nobody is considering anything of the like at tgs.

I don't think anybody wants to enforce any type of intentional ignorance, unless you really want to roleplay that yourself. (by all means, go for it)

Players are allowed to know what all antags are, and what they are capable of. They're just not allowed to specifically prep against them in advance without confirmation.

Also shouldn't this be in another thread or have we kinda given up on the whole stats page thing?

Incomptinence wrote:Oh wow rev has an 80% win rate. Why do we keep mindlessly nerfing security?

Oh and changelings have a 9% win rate in their own round that keep every ling alive and impersonate people objective must be nasty. In traitor chang where it is mostly a solo deal it is a 16% win rate that is almost double that is.

Traitors are doing about as well as double agents at 24% so ugh.
Wizard is down to 10% win rate thanks Miauw for cheer leading screwing them at every turn.

Gang has no stats but group antags seem to be strong across the board while solo antags and security which are reportedly balanced for the sake of each other CONTINUE TO SUFFER TOGETHER.

Well the difference is solo antags are more inclined simply to have fun, fuck shit up, or both, not necessarily follow objectives.