/tg/Station 13

You can look here for the whole story: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4454
Here's the relevant images: http://imgur.com/iqktVoo,WdmHy5Y#0
Here's the most relevant part if you don't want to read the wall of text:

Why you think you should be unbanned: I think it should be self-evident. First off, he is straight up lying on my ban reason. I did not admit to coming here "just to grief" at any point. Ever. I don't see how my attitude was terrible, other than disobeying a voice in my head (not a BWOINK, a voice in my head). I don't know this "many many things." I requested to see my notes about a month or two ago, and I had 3. Most of them relating to the permaban I had appealed. And forgive me for being cocky here, but I also don't understand the "we don't want you here" bit. As far as I know, just about everyone loves BLACK CLOWN. I used to be a shitter, but I have changed my ways. I think by "we" he means "I".
That's not even including his outrageous behavior in the round itself. He says we get a build round, then goes and gives the AI a law like that, not only lets him go bananas and fuck up the whole round, but lets a special snowflake drone take him. I admit trying to unleash the singularity against the word of the Gods (not the admins, the Gods) was a dumb idea. But is his behavior really excusable here? I am seriously thinking he should be deadminned, and I have never said that about any other admin. Ever. He says we are going to have a build round, sets it up, and then enables the AI to be a total nazi by giving it a rule that directly contradicts the the round type he had in mind. He makes a drone that breaks all the laws of drones and lets it save the rogue AI that was fucking the BUILD ROUND over. He permabans me for trying to retaliate against the rogue AI and drone after not BWOINKing me about it (word of God≠BWOINK). But possibly worst of all the straight up lies in my ban reason is what gets me. I mean, are you serious? Straight up lying? Jesus Christ man.

[02:54:02]ADMIN: HELP: Tuypo1/(Willy Kimple): there seems to be a drone talking to me - heard by 1 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.

[02:54:12]ADMIN: PM: Summoner99/(Drone Engineer Leader)->Tuypo1/(Willy Kimple): Not normal drone


[03:18:41]ADMIN: HELP: Alarmclock/(Rollo Kinsman): Summoner is the drone legit in replacing the clearly fucked up ai which we told him not to do? - heard by 1 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.

[03:18:53]ADMIN: PM: Summoner99/(Drone Engineer Leader)->Alarmclock/(Rollo Kinsman): It's not replacing the AI .

[03:18:59]ADMIN: PM: Alarmclock/(Rollo Kinsman)->Summoner99/(Drone Engineer Leader): It turned the ai back on

[03:19:10]ADMIN: PM: Summoner99/(Drone Engineer Leader)->Alarmclock/(Rollo Kinsman): It's just a card.

[03:19:18]ADMIN: PM: Alarmclock/(Rollo Kinsman)->Summoner99/(Drone Engineer Leader): Still has powers

[03:19:28]ADMIN: PM: Summoner99/(Drone Engineer Leader)->Alarmclock/(Rollo Kinsman): Subspace and ability to call shuttle



Turns out he was the drone and answering his own ahelps. Not stellar.

Holy shit I was not expecting that. I had a sneaking suspicions that he might have told the drone to take the AI, but I never expected he would BE the drone taking the AI.

Summoner's usually pretty great with these things. You really should've expected divine retribution (the extinguisher) for going against the gods' will (releasing the singularity), but the permaban might've been a little over-the-top.
Was the AI law "improve, maintain, repair" or something like that? I'm pretty sure flooding N2O isn't any of those.
Nothing says admins can't participate in their own events - naturally, they'd know how best to do it - but if you're answering ahelps about yourself too (inevitable, since most Basil rounds only have one admin on, at most), it might be best to pass the event role onto someone else.

Reading through that appeal the admin banned demon while being directly involved in the situation, I'd hope this guy gets deadminned, never dealt with him but from what I've seen in the logs it was really shit.

Releasing the singularity as a nonantag is pretty bad.

But Summoner giving themselves superdrone and permabanning someone who fucked with their event is worse. I hope the headmins take a good hard look at this. I don't think this is acceptable behavior for an admin.

He didn't even perma ban the guy for messing with their event, I mean yeah he broke the rule of /trying/ to release singuloth at 1 minute until shuttle arrives, but Summoner fucked his own event.

Oh good morning to all,

Guess I need to explain what happened before people from start pitchforking. @Kor, I have to answer the own ahelps on Basil because I'm the only admin on for verrrry long stretches of time but in that round we did had HBL and Niknak jumping in and out of that round but neither were staying there as they had things to do as HBL had to eat and Niknak was log-hunting.

--The Round:
The round was said to be a build event aka extended pretty much, the AI and borg was given a law that said to do things for the 'best interests of themselves and the station' so that they could participate. While the crew were building their super-forts in Arrivials I started construction on the 'secondary station' underneath the AI Sat. I'm going to skip the hour or so of the silent construct and get to the point where the AI gets rogue. The AI apparently flooded n20 and the station proceeded to dunk the AI and blow the borgs, that happens and that's in-game related things since the AI went nuts. At this time the borg got blown but was blown up while assisting in the second station construction so he was left in a dark hallway for a bit. That's when the 'special drone' was spawned just to give the MMI something to do instead of suiciding in the hallway, you can ask the borg player this but all I did was talking about 'doctor' and 'fixy' and roamed the same three hallways on the new station for a large amount of time. The time we left the station was when we left the second station on the look for a doctor to look at the patient papers we wrote up in the new medical bay and to examine the MMI. We walked around the station convincing 'doctors' and 'fixys' to come to the new home to make things, after convincing some people to go to the teleporter and visiting the second station we went to arrivals and saw the fort with a glass case surrounding the intellicard and asked for the AI Lady to come with us to make power on the new station. Rollo declined and wished to go see the new station first and so we took him to the new station and told him we can go get the AI now for power. We went back to Arrivals, took the intellicard, teleported back to the second station and placed the intellicard on the CE Chair. We then got chased around second station a bit before dying due to the space carp outside the second stations external airlocks, that is where the AI card and MMI lasted for the rest of the round (The rest of the round was about 11-14 minute, I'm unsure about this one since they were laying there for a bit before the shuttle was called.)

--The Singularity Issue:
Some crew members suggested at four minutes that they should just start the singularity engine and release it, I whispered to the ones and told them to not do that. BLACK CLOWN declined and continued walking and started wiring up the singularity. As they were finishing wiring it he got killed by a magical extinguisher.

--The Ban:
This one I agree was a bit too much, I asked #adminbus about banning and such and the reason was given to me by an admin and cleared. When I get a chance I'm unbanning Adminbane for the mix-up between players.

Are you incapable of asking someone in the admin irc to handle adminhelps that you are involved with? You make it clear that you were in the irc at the time.

I'm still a little mystified at what exactly occurred in regards to spawning yourself as a special drone to pick up an AI that apparently murdered people. Is this just normal and I'm crazy for having a problem with it?

Oh and there's also ban requests you could make, just because you're an admin doesn't mean you can't make one too.

I think the big distinction here is that it's entirely possible his drone wasn't bound by the drone laws, in which case the real issue here is Summoner handling his own adminhelps.

I want an explanation about the content of my ban reason.
When did I admit to coming here just to grief?
Other than this occasion, how do I have a terrible attitude?
What are these many many things?
Who is this "we" person who doesn't want me here anymore?

I was the scientist in that round. I was trying to test my theories on bomb mixing, there was nothing that explained to me what was going on. When I do toxins on basil, I just knock out a window in front of the mass driver because it's safer and easier to just walk them out with a spacesuit. Until the AI and it's borg decided to replace the window, locking me out on very little oxygen in my tank and the borg completely ignored me screaming at him to let me in, and the AI basically telling me "I don't have to listen to you, nah, nah." Then the AI starts flooding and killing people. I had just enough air to make it to the AI with the one bomb I had, so I tried to make it count and also get into the core where there would be air (I hit zero at this point on my tank), the AI turned it's lasers on me in the core and began trying to murder everyone. The AI player acting like the crew totally ruined or instigated this is BS, I thought an antag subverted him, he was looking to be confrontational.

I don't think the AI did anything clearly over the ooc line, but they earned every bit of IC retaliation and they didn't deserve the snowflake drone saving them from their own stupidity.

I ahelped the AI because it seemed rouge (putting me in extreme danger, but more in a "I don't care" rather than a active shock all the doors right now) but kinda unusual but didn't want to get banned for trying to take it out, and the only response I got from summoner was "cool" with zero explanation or answer to my question.

When I ghosted, I saw the drone actively working around the station to repair the cyborg that was blown for being rouge and basically breaking all rules about being a drone. The drone kept trying to help out the AI even after it decided it had a liscense2griff and trying to assist the borg fighting the crew.

I'm reaaaaally suprised that the admin not only made themselves a snowflake drone, but did nothing when their "side" took the first opportunity to run miles "off script" for the "event" by going on a murder spree but then handed out permabans when the other side responded.

Again, there was ZERO notifications about this or what the fuck was going on and he wasn't giving any real answer in adminhelps.

I'm also under the impression that handling your own adminhelps, much less permabanning them totally unjustifiably is or at least should be the admin equivalent of ban evading for players. If someone thinks permabans are reasonable because they got their feelings hurt, let them eat a permaban. Like, instant deadmin and come back and see us in a year.

You broke a window and your bobms were damaging a construction off the AI Sat that was built around the Toxins test site. I had Laws specifically statting I had to Observe and maintain the station, as well as act in my own and the station's best interests. Being one law, each had equal precedence.

I told you to go around to Departures where you could re-enter, you had plenty of oxygen to get there (and I know you did because you were equally as far away from the satellite as you were from Departures). The Borg got to a safe distance away from the station because it was minutes away from being blown, hence it's ignoring you. And I did not start flooding until after you detonated a bomb on my satellite and broke in, which is when I turned my turrets to lethal. You were the only person I killed in the entire round as I recall and only started to flood N20 when the crew decided to start breaking the cameras, AI control wires which went against my laws to maintain and observe.

I tried multiple times to de-escalate, offering to clean the N20 and pretend nothing happened but the crew wanted an excuse to validhunt.

I don't know what the drone was doing but it didn't have the Drone Lawset and I was grateful to it as the crew was just going to put me in a glass case to autism over.

You broke a window and your bobms were damaging a construction off the AI Sat that was built around the Toxins test site.

It your guys fault for building out there and not telling me. I just wanted to test my bombs, I had no idea until I died. The only thing I know is that you went full retard because I broke the window coming out of the mass driver so I could walk out bombs for testing, which is waaaay safer than using the mass driver. You guys were looking for an excuse to start shit.

I told you to go around to Departures where you could re-enter, you had plenty of oxygen to get there (and I know you did because you were equally as far away from the satellite as you were from Departures).

Locking me outside with >2 minutes left in the tank and refusing to help me come back in before building me out is a dick move, stop acting like your some victim. You guys choose to antagonize the crew, and paid for it. File a ban request if you disagree.

I was screaming LAW 1 LAW 2 at the borg over and over from outside the glass and he literally not respond once.

minutes away from being blown, hence it's ignoring you

It got blown BECAUSE it was ignoring me building a wall keeping me trapped in space. It calmly and happily took it's time pushing me out of the way, into space and to build me out, all the while not responding and two tile away from me. There was no real suspicious you were rouge until he locked me out. Pretending this was a noble effort to protect me from getting hurt by it being blown is laughable.

Anonmare wrote:You broke a window and your bobms were damaging a construction off the AI Sat that was built around the Toxins test site. I had Laws specifically statting I had to Observe and maintain the station, as well as act in my own and the station's best interests. Being one law, each had equal precedence.

Just seems like you were fishing to fuck the guy over, how do you not expect bombs to explode.. From the toxins test site?

We didn't lock you out, you don't have access to the External Airlocks outside the Toxins launcher which admittedly is something that needs to be brought up with metacide. I told the borg to ignore you regarding the window, I never told it to keep you in space and I don't recall seeing it trying to wall you in but I was busy trying to stop it being blown and damaging the station. I was not antagonising the crew, I was ignoring them, Asimov laws no longer applied to me so we had no obligation to protect you from harm but I did not at any point tell the borg to keep you out. The closest thing I told it was to use force if you re-broke the window but that's it. I never actively went out of my way to kill anyone, the N20 was to put the crew to sleep so we could repair the damage without having to worry, but then my borg got blown and the crew gloated about how they were going to destroy me, which is against my Ion Law as being destroyed is not in my interest.

And we didn't build the construction, as far as I know it was an admin construction but it still required my protection which I tried to inform people about over the radio but no one was seemingly paying attention.

Just seems like you were fishing to fuck the guy over, how do you not expect bombs to explode.. From the toxins test site?

I didn't know there was bomb-testing going on but once I did I told my borg to remove the bomb-making materials but I don't know if he managed to do it in time. He had a lot to do that round so I can't tell you his movements in their entirety.

[22:45] <Summoner99> oy hbl
[22:46] <Summoner99> Can I just permaban Adminbane or some shit?
[22:46] <Summoner99> Like hes total shitter always doing stupid shit but he just tried to build a singularity engine just to try to release it
[22:46] <Summoner99> In extended
[22:46] <Summoner99> The round that you saw with the construction
[22:46] <Summoner99> PRAYER: Adminbane/(BLACK CLOWN) (?) (PP) (VV) (SM) (FLW) (TP) (SC): do it i dont give a damn
[22:49] <Summoner99> Really shitty behavior.
[22:49] <hotelbravolima> Hm.
[22:49] <hotelbravolima> Yes.
[22:49] <hotelbravolima> Remove kebab permanently.
[22:50] <hotelbravolima> Admits he's a shitter here to grief, already permabanned and came back, bad attitude, go away.
[22:50] <hotelbravolima> I'll support you 5000 percent.
[22:51] <Summoner99> kk, his reasoning on ignoring me and trying to set up the singularity was "PRAYER: Adminbane/(BLACK CLOWN) (?) (PP) (VV) (SM) (FLW) (TP) (SC): playin favorites and shit"
[22:59] <hotelbravolima> gr8
[23:01] <Summoner99> Oh btw he raged quit after he got smashed for trying to release the singularity
[23:01] <Summoner99> His last words before the rage quit was: "IM GOING TO SINGULO AND MAKING A THREAD" or something like that
[23:01] <hotelbravolima> top kek
[23:01] <Summoner99> Anyway, hes banned and I'm heading to bed.
[23:01] <hotelbravolima> singulo will probably tell him he was being a fag
[23:01] <hotelbravolima> like when they got behind me about the shuttle console deletion thing
[23:01] <hotelbravolima> it happens on occasion
[23:01] <hotelbravolima> also yeah
[23:02] <hotelbravolima> I'll hover a bit on Bagil, good work


So apparently the "admits he's a griefer" comes from the way you presented the situation to HBL with certain lines taken out of context/with no mention of the rogue AI.

So the ban reason from HBL makes sense based on what he knew, but what he knew was just a tad incomplete and selective.

Don't see anything about "mixing up players" either.

Like I said, if it was a BWOINK I would've not, but in terms of IC, s voice in my head means the Gods are speaking to me. I was telling the Gods they're favouring the wrong person, I was not addressing the admins. And as you can see on Singulo, just about everyone is backing me up. I have discovered who the "we" are. Him, and HBL.
I'd still like to know how I'm apparently a "total shitter always doing stupid shit"

Anonmare wrote:We didn't lock you out, you don't have access to the External Airlocks outside the Toxins launcher

We didn't lock you out, but we locked you out.

Just admit it, dude. You got some beef with me and you wanted any reason you could to permaban me. It's obvious you're in the wrong here. No one but you and HBL (as far as I know) want me permabant, hence it getting lifted in such a short period of time.
As me and the others have said, this warrants a deadminning.

Demonbane wrote:and HBL.

Like I said, HBL didn't have all the information (judging by the logs I have anyway), so I don't think it's really fair to include him in this.

The way the situation was presented to him it made perfect sense to permaban.

Then its his own fault for making a judgement without all the facts. We dont allow rulebreakers to use ignorance of the rules as an excuse to avoid punishment, so why should admins get off the hook for allowing bans without looking into the situation first?

Alex Crimson wrote:Then its his own fault for making a judgement without all the facts. We dont allow rulebreakers to use ignorance of the rules as an excuse to avoid punishment, so why should admins get off the hook for allowing bans without looking into the situation first?

Exactly right. He didn't ask for any more details. He just said "yeah dude fuck em good job"

Alex Crimson wrote:Then its his own fault for making a judgement without all the facts. We dont allow rulebreakers to use ignorance of the rules as an excuse to avoid punishment, so why should admins get off the hook for allowing bans without looking into the situation first?

Admins are supposed to be able to trust each other. HBL trusting summoner's (totally fucked) judgement is entirely on summoner, and all the more reason he should not only be deadminned but eat a substantial ban.

rdght91 wrote:

Alex Crimson wrote:Then its his own fault for making a judgement without all the facts. We dont allow rulebreakers to use ignorance of the rules as an excuse to avoid punishment, so why should admins get off the hook for allowing bans without looking into the situation first?

Admins are supposed to be able to trust each other. HBL trusting summoner's (totally fucked) judgement is entirely on summoner, and all the more reason he should not only be deadminned but eat a substantial ban.

Pretty much this. It'd be an enormous waste of time and energy to form a committee to investigate every ban.

And it's not ignorance of the rules, that comparison doesn't even make any sense.

But if you insist comparing it to IC actions for some reason we don't punish people for not being omniscient (like arresting the wrong guy based on some evidence or another that points to them). He made a good decision on bad information.

Well then, Summoner should indeed get deadminned and swallow a ban for his substantial cherrypicking when relaying the situation to HBL.

My point is that players are expected to read up on the rules before playing. Admins are expected to look into logs and message the players involved before banning. HBL did nothing that would normally be expected of an admin before they drop the "yeah, ban him" line. We do not allow players to get away with not reading the rules, so why would we allow admins to act the way HBL did? Im not saying he should be deadminned, but he should be told to handle things differently in the future and at least get the facts before jumping to "yeah go ahead and ban him".

If HBL had taken a few minutes to ask Summoner for more context, then this whole situation might have been avoided.

I wouldn't expect an extensive search for every ban, but at least a bit of peeking into the logs for a PERMABAN sounds reasonable to me.

Demonbane wrote:I wouldn't expect an extensive search for every ban, but at least a bit of peeking into the logs for a PERMABAN sounds reasonable to me.

summoner is a full game admin. If someone says in IRC "hey this guy released a singularity in extended just because" obviously the other admins will take their word for it and agree to a ban. Obviously in this case HBL did not know the true context, and that blame falls on summoner. we shouldn't have to cross check bans that game admins are placing since that would be a monumental waste of time 99% of the time.


The forums are always here for that 1%.

@Kor: This is the reason why I decided to talk to you in #adminbus and not in here about the logs from last night, I don't want HBL thrown under the bus he was just the secondary opinion. He's a fine admin and I just wanted his personal opinion and if he has anything related to the player that could also be tacked on there. The reasoning however seems more like it was meant for Alarmclock as I've heard that people say he admits to griefing before, I don't think he meant Adminbane/Demonbane. So that's where the mixing is up.

@Demonbane It's not cherrypicking as the AI & Event and all sorts are really irrelevant to the whole 'constructing a singularity engine to try to make a singularity to release it four minutes before the shuttle arrives.'. I might understand if the AI is alive and locked down the whole station that is flooded with plasma fires but that wasn't the case as the AI has been carded since the first dunk and only had a subspace. At the time of you doing the singularity engine thing both the AI and MMI were in space next to a bunch of carps with them going in and out of braindead states due to the long time spent out there. You and Alarmclock have both been shouting for the past ?? saying I have something against you guys and that I'm plotting your ban like a giant conspiracy but that isn't true. I do get annoyed with your hi-jinks and your behavior with the things you do but it's not a big 'hunt for the banning'. I will say though the permaban was a mistake fueled by my annoyance of the situation and the many many many things you do daily.

About the AI Card being taken: I took the AI card as it seemed to have sat there in a trophy case, alive, for the past hours and I brought it to the new station to be the 'chief engineer' of sorts. It wasn't hooked back up to an AI core and neither was the former borg I just kept them around and let them have someone to talk to and get to have some joy. I'm sorry for allowing players who wouldn't be allowed back into any real station job or position to be able to play and do something in the round.

Another Side thing: You must understand that I admin on Basil all day and night alone for hours, most of the time I'm on there is no other admins on that can come give secondary opinions or watch over every single event. It's not possible and that's why most of the time Basil is left adminless as the only few admins are Basil admins and very very few who come on at later hours.

The AI event is definitely related. By giving the AI that law you were directly contradicting the desired round type. By assisting the AI you were assisting an antag. This post is not related to my ban, this post is relating to YOUR behavior, not mine.
We did not know about the space carp, you did not know about my plans to get the AI back in the round. Do you honestly think BLACK CLOWN would let the AI languish in a trophy case for the rest of the round? It was in there for, what, 10 minutes? 5?
Once again, what are these "many many many" things I do daily? You haven't clarified yet, and that was part of the ban reason. I fucked up this time, I will admit it, but I did it out of annoyance over YOUR actions.
And you claim not to have anything against me but you say you're annoyed by "the many many many things you do daily."? That sounds like you have something against me, fam.

EDIT: Grammar.

Sorry. I could (and should) have taken more care with this.

I don't agree with the idea that this constitutes any kind of negligence. I was misled by a person I trusted and I made a decision. I'm absolutely certain you've been in the same place at some point in your life.

EDIT: Also, summoner, come to the conspiracy bus when you're able to talk with the the headmins and whatnot about like, stuff.

Hibbles wrote: I was misled by a person I trusted

This is the problem.


EDIT: Well obviously not the entire problem, but this is a huge part of it.

I think you should all take a look at what Operative has to say on the matter: http://www.singulo.io/tg/res/52029.html#52147

The AI law was added and even ion announced when the Command Report stating the event went off, the point of the law was to allow the borg and AI to be able to participate and be able to ignore if any human harm or such occurs on the station and it was up to them. The law was "You are the stations observer and maintainer, do what is best for you and the station. Ignore all other laws." and I didn't suspect the AI would abuse it the way it did. You guys were in the IC Escalation rights to dunk the AI and I didn't stop it or do any of the sorts. I simply gave the brain that was left destroyed in the new station and the AI card (which was given no access to the station other than subspace broadcaster) something to do which was to continue building the new station as assistants. They were never going to get new bodies, they were never in anyway be able to intervene or undo what the people on the main station did.

I will put out there that I absolutely dislike any situation where the player is stuck in the round but can not do anything with examples of a lockdowned batteryless borg in a closet to a player stuck behind girders naked. It puts them in a situation where they are stuck in the round and can not do anything as if they ghost they can't be revived.

You have still not answered my question. What are these "many many many things" I do daily?
And as I said, I did have plans to get him back into the round, which is why I wanted you to bugger off, aside from you breaking all the laws drones have.
You didn't know about my plans, I didn't know about the space carp. The AI law could have easily led to human harm and I'm amazed you didn't realize that. Telling an AI to make sure the station is harmed in a build round is absurd. It's obvious the station was going to be harmed. There is no room to build unless you make some room, or edit the area you already have.
You told them to harm humans if they messed with the station during a round where the point is to mess with the station.

This may be late, but I was observing this round. The bomb the scientist tested ONLY damaged the test site, it didn't even breach outside the test site's walls, the ministation was completely undamaged and so was its x3 reinforced wall padding.

Summoner, are we going to get a simple answer to:

1. why you broke a major, very clear, and very well established rule of don't handle your own adminhelps for a permaban.

2. why you misrepresented the facts to HBL. (This isn't up for debate, it's extremely clear to all the admins and users here you made up this guys "history." Stop fucking splitting hairs over the particulars of the round.)

rdght91 wrote:Summoner, are we going to get a simple answer to:

1. why you broke a major, very clear, and very well established rule of don't handle your own adminhelps for a permaban.

2. why you misrepresented the facts to HBL. (This isn't up for debate, it's extremely clear to all the admins and users here you made up this guys "history." Stop fucking splitting hairs over the particulars of the round.)

Exactly this. Independently they're pretty awful. But combined? That deserves a deadmin, bud.
Beating around the bush doesn't help, either.

Why was the drone even talking/stealing an AI? That violates it's laws.
If a person creates a snowflake drone for themselves without laws/restrictions, using it to mess with what players are doing, that is also pretty shitty.

Ayo I gotta say. I ahelped and didn't know this would happen. I mean I'll throw in my two cents, Summoner fucked up a good chunk but maybe it's the shitty neet life you admins live. Give him a break maybe have him take a ss13 vacation for a bit.

"I was the only admin online" was my excuse too. The difference is I was a brand new trialmin. You should know far better by now not to do this shit. It's not a coincidence that this is both an adminhelp you handled yourself and a completely biased overzealous and mishandled ban.

Normally this would be pretty bad but the way you're defending yourself suggests to me that this is your standard practice on basil which is far worse. I'll have to speak to kor when I get back later today.

this is still a thing that happened
if you cant conjure up an adequate excuse then at least own what you did instead of ignoring the thread

Yeah, I don't mean to be impatient but I feel as if this is kinda a big deal.

We're trying to get summoner in for a Big Important Talk but they're a little scarce on IRC. Hm.

Summoner 99 is to be deadminnged and may reapply through the trialmin process in one month[/quote]

Thanks fam.
I still wish he woulda shown up to tell us what the fuck he was thinking.

please don't' link my site to the forum