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Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

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Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:25 am
by cultist-chan
As a bartender Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot up three people causing two to die. A two day ban has been implemented, one for each person killed.

I was under the impresson that ammetik wanted me to post a FNR about this.

Edit
I resolved this situation here's the logs, he killed both ammnestik and a sec officer.
Spoiler:
[21:04:24]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Charles Dunley(indieanajones) grabbed monkey (22) passively</font>
[21:04:28]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Julie Peaches(sweetsoulbrother) with The pellet</font>
[21:04:28]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Julie Peaches(sweetsoulbrother) with The pellet</font>
[21:04:29]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Warwick Stein(tiftik) with The pellet</font>
[21:04:29]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Warwick Stein(tiftik) with The pellet</font>
[21:04:29]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Warwick Stein(tiftik) with The pellet</font>
[21:04:29]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Julie Peaches(sweetsoulbrother) with The pellet</font>
[21:04:32]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Dmitrii Yanovich(verarch) punched Dmitrii Yanovich(verarch) </font>
[21:04:37]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Chad Parkinson(nitro2985) shot Kira Scott(spiraljacobs) with The electrode</font>
[21:04:40]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Jayden Rich(mazen30) shaked Geist Dangerous(srifenbyxp) </font>
[21:04:41]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Jacob Mugumble(mugumbe) shot Chad Parkinson(nitro2985) with The energy netting</font>
[21:04:41]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Jacob Mugumble(mugumbe) shot Chad Parkinson(nitro2985) with The energy netting</font>
[21:04:41]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Jacob Mugumble(mugumbe) shot Kira Scott(spiraljacobs) with The energy netting</font>
[21:04:41]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Jacob Mugumble(mugumbe) shot Kira Scott(spiraljacobs) with The energy netting</font>
[21:04:44]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>
[21:04:45]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>
[21:04:45]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>
[21:04:50]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Mason Miller(jackhunt) attacked alien drone </font>
[21:04:54]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Mason Miller(jackhunt) attacked alien drone </font>
[21:04:55]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Mason Miller(jackhunt) attacked alien drone </font>
[21:04:55]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Wrex Quasar(novaray) attacked alien drone with flamethrower(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[21:04:56]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Mason Miller(jackhunt) attacked alien drone </font>
[21:04:56]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Wrex Quasar(novaray) attacked alien drone with flamethrower(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[21:04:57]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Mason Miller(jackhunt) attacked alien drone </font>
[21:04:57]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Wrex Quasar(novaray) attacked alien drone with flamethrower(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[21:04:58]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Mason Miller(jackhunt) attacked alien drone </font>
[21:05:00]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Charles Dunley(indieanajones) grabbed monkey (610) passively</font>
[21:05:00]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Mason Miller(jackhunt) attacked alien drone </font>
[21:05:01]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Wrex Quasar(novaray) attacked alien drone with flamethrower(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[21:05:02]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Wrex Quasar(novaray) attacked alien drone with flamethrower(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[21:05:03]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Wrex Quasar(novaray) attacked alien drone with flamethrower(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[21:05:04]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Wrex Quasar(novaray) attacked alien drone with flamethrower(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[21:05:04]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>
[21:05:04]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>
[21:05:04]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>
[21:05:04]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>
[21:05:05]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>
[21:05:05]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>
[21:05:05]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Balanar Fringmich(forsakenme) shot Mr. Beret(amnestik) with The pellet</font>

[21:15:01]SAY: Ghost/ForsakenMe : I killed the officer with shotgun and incendiary slugs
[21:07:44]SAY: Ghost/ForsakenMe : I killed two people with my shotgun

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:30 am
by Scones
Do we use Singulo as an official source of information now, and one through which we handle ban requests?

EDIT: Could you at least link the relevant thread and posts?

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:37 am
by Saegrimr
This sounds like a terrible idea unless you went through proper log diving.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:42 am
by imblyings
I don't get it, did you make a ban request, did you handle the ban request, how was it resolved through singulo, what happened?

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:53 am
by Amnestik
Cut them some slack and give them the benefit of the doubt, instead of looking for problems to try to pick with them.

http://www.singulo.io/tg/res/44943.html#q45194

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:59 am
by Saegrimr
Pardon me for not wanting to trudge through singulo to look for a ban request handled anonymously in a completely unrelated thread.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:02 am
by Scones
Saegrimr wrote:Pardon me for not wanting to trudge through singulo to look for a ban request handled anonymously in a completely unrelated thread.
A thread with no information given, especially. Ausops initial question is still what I'd like answered.
imblyings wrote:I don't get it, did you make a ban request, did you handle the ban request, how was it resolved through singulo, what happened?
I think we need to set some sort of precedent on singulo stuff for FNR, if this is going to go through - Do we consider them official? Can I now make ban requests anonymously on Singulo if an admin will handle them>

Triple edit for supportbus logs that sort things out a bit, but my own question yet stands
Spoiler:
<cultistchan> I made a mistake
<cultistchan> I corrected it
<Ausops> oh you are in this irc nice
<Ausops> what was the thread anyway
<cultistchan> talked to kor about it
<Ausops> did you make a ban request or did someone else make it
<cultistchan> they were complaining I didn't investigate it correctly
<cultistchan> I re-investigated it and they were correct
<Ausops> kor our lord and saviour
<Ausops> but I'm asking what was with the ban request thread
<cultistchan> I posted it due to the fact that he didn't post one
<Ausops> who?
<cultistchan> amnestik
<Ausops> did he say he wanted to post one or did he ask you to post one in his stead?
<Ausops> mind you, I'm not ripping into you right now, I'm trying to gather what happened
<cultistchan> I didn't know whether I was right about it until I made that post. I didn't want to make an FNR thread and then get BTFO if I was wrong. I don't want a reputation as somebody who cries wolf. â–¶Operative 07/07/15 (Tue) 05:14:54 ID: d6f1da No.45202>>45204 >>45198 Thanks for clearing this up for me, by the way.
<cultistchan> thats what he said
<Ausops> oh I see
<cultistchan> so essentially he was upset about it on singilo
<cultistchan> I was browsing
<cultistchan> saw his complaint
<cultistchan> looked at the logs
<cultistchan> saw the problem
<cultistchan> set a ban for 2 days as suggested by kor
<Ausops> yeah if you want to help out a player like this it's fine but there's no real need to make (a rather vague) thread on the ban request forum
<cultistchan> put up a FNR so the person can appeal if neccessary or explain their side
<Ausops> admins will set bans on players after some time has passed all the time
<Ausops> obviously investigate well beforehand but if it's pretty clear cut, they can come and appeal by themselves
<cultistchan> I'm not the best admin but I'm trying to make sure everyone has a voice and not be a dick... If I see I messed up I'm going to fix it
<Ausops> or if you really wanted to make a ban request thread for it
<Ausops> at least follow the format kinda
<cultistchan> I'll delete the fnr ban request
<Ausops> say that someone on singulo wanted to make one but couldn't
<Ausops> just update it
<Ausops> list the ban reasons etc
<Ausops> because this entire irc conversation came from none of the things you just explained to me being in the thread
<Ausops> deleting it right now would just make things look even more suspicious
<cultistchan> alright. I'll update it.
<iamgoofball> cultistchan: Alright, so you saw shit in the logs, it actually happened?
<cultistchan> yep
<cultistchan> also
<cultistchan> my attack logs aren't working correctly
<cultistchan> so this is relying off the public logs

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:10 am
by imblyings
Pointing this out is more for their benefit than anyone elses. A FNR thread with a lack of information leads to all sorts of suspicion and wild conclusions, none of which CC can afford right now. Anyway, I asked CC what happened, then asked them to put into the thread what they told me, which is what I wanted.

Ban requests can be made on singulo sure, but admins have no obligation to look into them if the requests don't come with a date and time, and admins certainly don't have an obligation to dive through a sea of chelp to actually find posts regarding ban requests. I mean there are plenty of ways to actually alert an admin to bad things, if they choose to anonymously post their ban requests on singulo, it's their own fault if nothing happens.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:12 am
by cultist-chan
imblyings wrote:Pointing this out is more for their benefit than anyone elses. A FNR thread with a lack of information leads to all sorts of suspicion and wild conclusions, none of which CC can afford right now. Anyway, I asked CC what happened, then asked them to put into the thread what they told me, which is what I wanted.

Ban requests can be made on singulo sure, but admins have no obligation to look into them if the requests don't come with a date and time, and admins certainly don't have an obligation to dive through a sea of chelp to actually find posts regarding ban requests. I mean there are plenty of ways to actually alert an admin to bad things, if they choose to anonymously post their ban requests on singulo, it's their own fault if nothing happens.
Fix'd

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:16 am
by mrpain
So I can potentially make up baseless information on singulo and get people I don't like banned now? Neat.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:18 am
by Scones
mrpain wrote:So I can potentially make up baseless information on singulo and get people I don't like banned now? Neat.
If logs make it look like you're telling the truth, we can now evidently totally skip any questioning process and ban people with no context added to said logs

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:19 am
by imblyings
Any ban requests on singulo should be used as an indicator for things to be looked into further, and never as actionable evidence by itself.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:21 am
by cultist-chan
mrpain wrote:So I can potentially make up baseless information on singulo and get people I don't like banned now? Neat.
It means I'll try to look through logs if people claim something needs investigating. I'll listen to people if I can. I'm trying to not be shit. I fear I am failing.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:35 am
by mrpain
cultist-chan wrote:
mrpain wrote:So I can potentially make up baseless information on singulo and get people I don't like banned now? Neat.
It means I'll try to look through logs if people claim something needs investigating. I'll listen to people if I can. I'm trying to not be shit. I fear I am failing.
How about for the sake of transparency you tell the singulo chelp posters to take the initiative to make the ban request themselves? That system was already working fine.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:24 pm
by peoplearestrange
One of the main reasons for using the forums over singlo is that there is some sort of paper trail. Even resolved issues get stored.
If things are "resolved" on singlo then there is no trail, no publicly available record, once some time has passed, to proove what went down. It also gives no opportunity for someone to explain themselves if they don't visit singlo.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:37 pm
by Falamazeer
You silly sausages, You're missing another big glaring fault here, His ban appeal will now be utterly shat up with singulo and precedent talk.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:13 pm
by Amnestik
mrpain wrote:So I can potentially make up baseless information on singulo and get people I don't like banned now? Neat.
The information wasn't baseless. I quoted and linked the logs that showed him killing as a non-antag and that proved he wasn't an antagonist, which was contrary to what Corruptroulette had told me in PM.

I posted that on singulo to get opinions on whether it was worth following up or not, which I didn't believe it was at the time until I remembered I could check antagonists for that round in the public logs.

While I provided my side of the story as to what lead to the shooting, which was improper escalation (I think I punched him once or twice for emoting wiping his ass on a security officer's checkpoint window while the officer was still inside), I still expected that if I eventually made an FNR thread for it or if an admin decided to follow it up of their own volition (which was what happened) that they'd do their own investigation and reach their own conclusion.

As for the rest of this thread, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. This wasn't a ban made based on singulo rumours. It was an administrative mistake that was corrected with the help of public logs. Forsakenme would be far from the first time player to be banned while they're offline and asked to come and explain themselves in FNR.

I find this thread weird though, given it sounds like the guy was already banned. No ban request is necessary. If he doesn't already know about the ban, he'll find out when he tries to log in to the server. The ball's in his court to make an appeal if he feels the ban was unjustified.

Re: Forsakenme Fixed situation: Resolved through singilo

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:11 pm
by cultist-chan
Amnestik wrote:
mrpain wrote:So I can potentially make up baseless information on singulo and get people I don't like banned now? Neat.
The information wasn't baseless. I quoted and linked the logs that showed him killing as a non-antag and that proved he wasn't an antagonist, which was contrary to what Corruptroulette had told me in PM.

I posted that on singulo to get opinions on whether it was worth following up or not, which I didn't believe it was at the time until I remembered I could check antagonists for that round in the public logs.

While I provided my side of the story as to what lead to the shooting, which was improper escalation (I think I punched him once or twice for emoting wiping his ass on a security officer's checkpoint window while the officer was still inside), I still expected that if I eventually made an FNR thread for it or if an admin decided to follow it up of their own volition (which was what happened) that they'd do their own investigation and reach their own conclusion.

As for the rest of this thread, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. This wasn't a ban made based on singulo rumours. It was an administrative mistake that was corrected with the help of public logs. Forsakenme would be far from the first time player to be banned while they're offline and asked to come and explain themselves in FNR.

I find this thread weird though, given it sounds like the guy was already banned. No ban request is necessary. If he doesn't already know about the ban, he'll find out when he tries to log in to the server. The ball's in his court to make an appeal if he feels the ban was unjustified.
To be fair we have a bug with the .getserverlog that screwed me over. And yes I made a mistake and corrected it as soon as I figured out I made one. I figured the ban request post was neccesary due to it being made in singulio (which technically isn't the place for it.)
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