/tg/Station 13

Hide station orbit reports, crew doesn't not need to know the threat level. its irrelevant and 50% of the time it just lies to you.
I think honestly its more fun to not know the threat level then it is to know it certain orbits can cause the shuttle to be called aswell because your just counting down the threat and if its all gone you just claim ur "bored" and theres no "antags" i think LRP atleast would benefit more from having no orbit reports since those are more for a MRP setting.

I would love to hear you guys opinions and takes to this because i think i might be cooking something here.

Isn't this a coding change, not policy or config?

Anyway, if you ask me, the issue is more that Command is extremely lazy and just puts out an announcement about what the threat level is. When I play as Captain, I call a meeting to discuss the report with the rest of Command in the staff meeting room (And don't announce the details to the crew at large), or if it's an extreme report that I feel the crew in general should be informed of (Black orbit plus carp invasions plus some other bullshit), I call a general meeting with the entire crew in that situation. Basically, no one else is appropriately using the roleplay opportunity provided by station reports.

And as for the issue of people not wanting to play on a greenshift or a shift where all the antags have been valided... Well, whenever I bring up that assistant should just be disabled below like 50 pop, people say "Well if im forced to play a role I don't want to, I just wont play the game then". Similarly here, if people are on a greenshift, and they don't like greenshifts, they will just disconnect in a locker or "definitely not antag-rolling" suicide. If you disable reports, you're just trying to trick them into playing the game when they wouldn't want to play the game if they had all the information available - that isn't making the game better, it's just tricking people into playing until they get bored and ghost out because they realize there's no antags after 25 minutes.

Maybe you should focus more on making the game better so people want to play even if it's a greenshift, rather than trying to trick them into playing when they don't want to. Although I personally agree there's a LOT more to the game than just antagging, we have to accept that not everyone will feel that way, and this is a game people should be coming to play to have fun, you shouldn't need to trick people into playing it.

Yeah but you see 50% of the time the report just straight up lies aswell so your practically already gambling on information that already exists, it could say black orbit when its easily a greenshift or close to it so why would it be any different?

Ezel wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:43 pm Yeah but you see 50% of the time the report just straight up lies aswell so your practically already gambling on information that already exists, it could say black orbit when its easily a greenshift or close to it so why would it be any different?

Isn't that no longer the case as of this PR?

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/89150

I mean you could say the "low-end" threat report is so broad as to be nearly useless, but it's supposedly 100% accurate now.

i would pog out of my mind if the alert level wasn't automatically raised every round.

it should be a decision of command whether or not to raise crew readiness and give sec more powers to search and detain rather than it being a given. procedural roleplay!!

do it. threat reports suck and should never have been anything more than fluff text.

Orbit reports give a sense of round expectation that might not benefit us. I know that captains are free to keep that info under wraps, but there's no consequence really to sharing it?

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 1:33 am Orbit reports give a sense of round expectation that might not benefit us. I know that captains are free to keep that info under wraps, but there's no consequence really to sharing it?

the consequence is the crew reacting OOCly to the information. If its stated that the shift is a red star or black orbit, people will act very very differently to a blue star. If your goal as captain is to keep the station humming along smoothly for as long as you can then you dont want that

This is a config change, no_intercept_report blocks roundstart threat reports.
I think it could prob just be removed codeside, I'm not too fond of it. Vek's pr helped some imo you seem to be operating off a mix of old and new info.

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 1:33 am Orbit reports give a sense of round expectation that might not benefit us. I know that captains are free to keep that info under wraps, but there's no consequence really to sharing it?

it always get outed by another head if not the AI or somoene ordering to get into bridge its hard to not get the information ojt

Ezel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 6:03 am

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 1:33 am Orbit reports give a sense of round expectation that might not benefit us. I know that captains are free to keep that info under wraps, but there's no consequence really to sharing it?

it always get outed by another head if not the AI or somoene ordering to get into bridge its hard to not get the information ojt

Eh, again though, this is really just Command being incredibly lazy. When I roll Captain, I order the AI not to spread the report to the crew at large.

And if someone ordered the AI to let them in so they could grab the report... that means Command just left it sitting on the comms console. So, again, it's Command being lazy.

Maybe the solution to this is to rework the threat report on the code level to send an automated message to the Captain (or the acting Captain) via their PDA, instead of to the comms console, that way the AI doesn't get access to it.

And for shifts where there is no acting captain, you make it so it gets sent to the first person to put the spare ID into their PDA.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 9:05 am

Ezel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 6:03 am

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 1:33 am Orbit reports give a sense of round expectation that might not benefit us. I know that captains are free to keep that info under wraps, but there's no consequence really to sharing it?

it always get outed by another head if not the AI or somoene ordering to get into bridge its hard to not get the information ojt

Eh, again though, this is really just Command being incredibly lazy. When I roll Captain, I order the AI not to spread the report to the crew at large.

And if someone ordered the AI to let them in so they could grab the report... that means Command just left it sitting on the comms console. So, again, it's Command being lazy.

Maybe the solution to this is to rework the threat report on the code level to send an automated message to the Captain (or the acting Captain) via their PDA, instead of to the comms console, that way the AI doesn't get access to it.

And for shifts where there is no acting captain, you make it so it gets sent to the first person to put the spare ID into their PDA.

Eitherway ai isn't the only offender its usually all of command, orbit level is metaknowledge they shouldn't get its way more intresting to keep the threat level amount unknown that way security never know if they have to expect half the station syndicate or a small part of it, they can subttact threat off it depending what antags spawn and then call the shuttle cuz theyre "bored". this is how it atleast is on LRP. idk how it is on mrp

Quick edit:The new term would allows us to setup server spefific configs i think for mrp pace this is fine, but terry it just goes to the point where crew speedrun/suicide in the round depending orbit level so i think we could atleast extempt it from terry

Ezel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 9:33 am

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 9:05 am

Ezel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 6:03 am

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 1:33 am Orbit reports give a sense of round expectation that might not benefit us. I know that captains are free to keep that info under wraps, but there's no consequence really to sharing it?

it always get outed by another head if not the AI or somoene ordering to get into bridge its hard to not get the information ojt

Eh, again though, this is really just Command being incredibly lazy. When I roll Captain, I order the AI not to spread the report to the crew at large.

And if someone ordered the AI to let them in so they could grab the report... that means Command just left it sitting on the comms console. So, again, it's Command being lazy.

Maybe the solution to this is to rework the threat report on the code level to send an automated message to the Captain (or the acting Captain) via their PDA, instead of to the comms console, that way the AI doesn't get access to it.

And for shifts where there is no acting captain, you make it so it gets sent to the first person to put the spare ID into their PDA.

Eitherway ai isn't the only offender its usually all of command, orbit level is metaknowledge they shouldn't get its way more intresting to keep the threat level amount unknown that way security never know if they have to expect half the station syndicate or a small part of it, they can subttact threat off it depending what antags spawn and then call the shuttle cuz theyre "bored". this is how it atleast is on LRP. idk how it is on mrp

Quick edit:The new term would allows us to setup server spefific configs i think for mrp pace this is fine, but terry it just goes to the point where crew speedrun/suicide in the round depending orbit level so i think we could atleast extempt it from terry

Well, I mean, again, this is kind of the same thing I said before, where basically what this means is that we have a good thing that people want to interact with (antags), and they don't want to bother playing the game if they don't get to interact with antags. So hiding the report only accomplishes tricking people who wouldn't want to play the game if they knew the threat level into playing the game when they otherwise would not, if they had all of the information.

You can make the argument that it's fine for LRP but should be different on MRP, but frankly, I'm the ONLY person who actually takes advantage of the roleplay opportunity provided by threat reports to host command or general meetings using them on MRP. So I think we can come to the conclusion that the people have spoken, and even MRP players don't want to bother about it, and just want to know the threat level so they can know if a shift is worth investing their time and mental energy into. Because at the end of the day this is a game people are playing to have fun, not an art piece where people play the best actor.

And if you think it should be otherwise, well, maybe you should go add your support to Scriptis' HRP server project somehow, or sign up for Captain yourself on MRP and be the change you want to see. I don't think removing threat reports is the right call, I think it just makes the game worse for a lot of people for whom antags are the main focus of the game, which appears to be 100% of Terry and 80% of Manuel, AKA the lion's share of our playerbase.

Well, I mean, again, this is kind of the same thing I said before, where basically what this means is that we have a good thing that people want to interact with (antags), and they don't want to bother playing the game if they don't get to interact with antags. So hiding the report only accomplishes tricking people who wouldn't want to play the game if they knew the threat level into playing the game when they otherwise would not, if they had all of the information.

You can make the argument that it's fine for LRP but should be different on MRP, but frankly, I'm the ONLY person who actually takes advantage of the roleplay opportunity provided by threat reports to host command or general meetings using them on MRP. So I think we can come to the conclusion that the people have spoken, and even MRP players don't want to bother about it, and just want to know the threat level so they can know if a shift is worth investing their time and mental energy into. Because at the end of the day this is a game people are playing to have fun, not an art piece where people play the best actor.

And if you think it should be otherwise, well, maybe you should go add your support to Scriptis' HRP server project somehow, or sign up for Captain yourself on MRP and be the change you want to see. I don't think removing threat reports is the right call, I think it just makes the game worse for a lot of people for whom antags are the main focus of the game, which appears to be 100% of Terry and 80% of Manuel, AKA the lion's share of our playerbase.

It will just be antag focused people just won't know the orbit level, orbit level affects player behaviour alot and i think personal opinion that its bad for the gameflow for LRP, MRP its whatever people are heled at a higher standard of people just suicide there, plus the tempo is slower for LRP i think its atleast worth the expiriment just to see how people react. thrrat levels will still be the same they just dont know how much threat is auctally in the game

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 3:16 am

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 1:33 am Orbit reports give a sense of round expectation that might not benefit us. I know that captains are free to keep that info under wraps, but there's no consequence really to sharing it?

the consequence is the crew reacting OOCly to the information. If its stated that the shift is a red star or black orbit, people will act very very differently to a blue star. If your goal as captain is to keep the station humming along smoothly for as long as you can then you dont want that

Lol, what?

If that’s what some of the crew elect to do, you warn them, or ban them. It’s sort of what the admins are around for. They aren’t being paid for it, they’re in the position mainly out of passion…right??

regie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 03, 2025 3:42 pm

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 3:16 am

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Wed Apr 02, 2025 1:33 am Orbit reports give a sense of round expectation that might not benefit us. I know that captains are free to keep that info under wraps, but there's no consequence really to sharing it?

the consequence is the crew reacting OOCly to the information. If its stated that the shift is a red star or black orbit, people will act very very differently to a blue star. If your goal as captain is to keep the station humming along smoothly for as long as you can then you dont want that

Lol, what?

If that’s what some of the crew elect to do, you warn them, or ban them. It’s sort of what the admins are around for. They aren’t being paid for it, they’re in the position mainly out of passion…right??

No rules are really being broken. Centcomm themselves professionally telling you that the station is in enemy / unknown space and you are likely to be attacked is good enough reason to take precautions. I don’t mean someone breaking into departments to powergame screaming about how many valids they are going to kill, but the more subtle reactions that players have when they know a round is likely to go to hell really fast

my april fools pr basically just removed orbit reports for the last few days and im honestly curious if its actually upset anyone

nianjiilical wrote: ↑Thu Apr 03, 2025 11:43 pm my april fools pr basically just removed orbit reports for the last few days and im honestly curious if its actually upset anyone

I've played a couple rounds of security, and the lack of any expectations regarding threat has been annoying. Although the spell casting PR was admittedly much more of a headache than the lack of a report.

Don't remove the shift divergency portion, it does the whole intel report thing way better, especially with station traits which are minor but are possible to leverage in your favor if you know about them.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:54 pm

Ezel wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:43 pm Yeah but you see 50% of the time the report just straight up lies aswell so your practically already gambling on information that already exists, it could say black orbit when its easily a greenshift or close to it so why would it be any different?

Isn't that no longer the case as of this PR?

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/89150

I mean you could say the "low-end" threat report is so broad as to be nearly useless, but it's supposedly 100% accurate now.

Oh hey, that's my PR.

I kept these because I like the feeling of tension that occurs when it's a high threat level and I like players being able to know when it's probably safe to take things a little easier, but I wanted it to be a little less granular so we'd get fewer people suiciding because it's not the threat level they want. I haven't heard anyone complaining about that recently, so I think it succeeded.

I don't care that much about keeping it in, but if you made me pick, I'd keep it. I feel like it's in a sweet spot now where the more hectic rounds are called out at a point where people can be ready for them while still giving folks less of a chance to guess immediately how crazy everything will be 5 minutes into the round.

My real dream solution would be somewhere between what we have now and the old threat reports that would give you potential threats with one guaranteed to be correct. It would roll threat, then pick from a list of potential antags that could spawn and put 2-3 of them on the report, with no guarantee that it would be accurate. For instance, if Malf AI can only spawn at high threat and it shows up on the report, you can safely assume it's going to be a busy round, but it's not guaranteed to do that.

We've had a chat about this one and do share some of the concerns regarding crew reactions or apathy when the command report comes in, which doesn't create the best of atmospheres, however at this time we would prefer not to remove this mechanic in reaction to recent events. Hopefully these will change over time, perhaps helped on by changes made elsewhere to dynamic to tighten up the experience a little.