/tg/Station 13

BYOND account: Tapubulu

Ban/note type (Server Ban/Discord Ban/Forum Ban/Note): Server Ban

Ban/note duration: 1 day
Ban/note reason: Used a self defense ttv to blow up a non-ascended heretic and crit one other innocent bystander. Please don't use TTV's to blow up antags, since you run the risk of blowing up others in the process.
Time ban was placed: 2025-03-16 05:18:08
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 250262

Why are you making this appeal? (Put an x in the boxes):
() - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(x) - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?: I don't like appealing for a day ban, but I don't want this note on my history, and I think the ban was an over-reaction. I understand that a TTV shouldn't always be used for self defense, but in this instance, I was blinded and attacked by a rust heretic mid conversation. And while I would most certainly not use a TTV for self defense if I was in a heavily trafficked section of the station such as medical or the bar, I was in the lower science z-level, which had only been used by me for about the last 30 minutes prior to the explosion. So I didn't really have by-standers on my mind before I used my explosive, I've also got no idea why a random person was standing close enough to a heretic attack that they could be put into crit by my bomb. In any other situation, I would have tried to stun the heretic(unfortunately, I was blind, so I was a little more panicked than I usually would be in a fight). Self defense is allowed against violent antags, and heretics are about as violent as it gets. Had I known that I had an innocent near me, I'm sure the outcome would have been different, but once again, I was blind and suffering from the rust heretic ability and I had no way of knowing and thought I was alone.

Couple things about that:

One, you told me in the ticket that the TTV was first for a singularity hammer, then finally told me that it was for a Dragon (just in case). If by some scenario you used it on the dragon, you would've risked killing bystanders with it even if you were so meticulous about placing it. Dragons have good movement, so chances are it would've dodged you if you decided to suicide bomb it.

Two, If I didn't note/ban you over this, I fear that many others or yourself would take this as an example and say "Oh I didn't get noted/banned for this, maybe I should carry a self defense TTV more often"

The thing about using explosives on antags is that you are responsible for the splash damage it causes to innocents, doesn't matter that some rando decided to walk in when you're about to use it. You're responsible for the death of them, or many others that could've walked into blast range. This is why it shouldn't be a good "Self Defense" tool in many cases. In any rate, using an explosive and killing someone or multiple people will get you a ban in any rate.

It's better to accept getting sacked and have a chance at revival than to use an explosive that gibs you and others in the vicinity that renders you, the heretic and bystanders in an RR induced explosive. Sure, the organ removal is annoying, and there's a chance that parameds won't be using the vital signs computer to find your corpse, but hey, at least you can spare a few other inno's rounds and save yourself the ban. Least, that's how I see it.

viewtopic.php?p=609255#p609255

Self-defense explosives are restricted in use on all servers. You cannot just blow up parts of the station because an antag is violent, even on LRP. They're even more restricted on MRP due to the additional rules around dealing with antags and how antags can deal with the crew.

MAYBE an ascended heretic that's now posing itself as an existential threat to the station by running around turbo boning may justify deploying a self-defense bomb that catches other players as collateral damage. But you're still going to be held to account for every single statistic you create and have it compared to how proportionate those deaths were in line with the threat you bombed.

As for the ban duration and reason for banning?

Rule 1 Precedent 1: Do not facilitate player deaths for poor IC reasoning. Distributing bombs or other similarly destructive items can leave you responsible for how they are used if not cleared with an admin first. Each unjustified kill is normally met with a 24-hour ban.

You can be held responsible for how bombs you distribute get used. Unsurprisingly, with that being the case - you can also be held responsible for bombs you use yourself. And unjustified kills are normally met with a 24-hour ban per kill. It's codified in the rules.

And if I take a look at your response in the aftermath?
Au contraire, mon cherie. For 'tis your responsibility to make sure you don't blow other players up when deploying bombs against non-station-existential threats. When you are an antagonistic threat yourself by bombing, you may want to just take your dayban for rolling and smoking a heretic in your MLG highlight reel moment that you weren't recording.

I was looking in the wrong place and didn’t see that precedent, now that I’ve been made aware of it, yeah the ban is deserved.