/tg/Station 13

BYOND account: EnterTheJake

Ban/note type (Check what applies):antag ban
() - Server Ban: all
() - Note: a/n
() - Forum Ban: a/n
() - Discord Ban: a/n

Ban/note length: permanent
Ban/note reason: Banned from Roles: Abductor, Xenomorph, Blob, Blood Brother, Changeling, Cultist, Heretic, Hivemind Host, Malf AI, Space Ninja, Operative, Syndicate Mutineer, Revolutionary, Revenant, Head Revolutionary, Spider, Spy, Syndicate, Traitor, Wizard, Voidwalker permanently - Antag Ban - Two rounds in a row AFK shortly after round started and came back only after being given antagonist role. Seemed like clear cut antag rolling, though an appeal after some time would not be improper.
Time ban was placed: 2024-12-11 14:47:20
Server you were playing on when banned: manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: Round 245241

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
() - The ban/note is factually incorrect: n
() - The ban/note is not against the rules:
() - The ban/note needs modification: nope
(X) - The ban was unjustifiably harsh: yes
(X) - I was permabanned and I want another chance: a/n

Why should this appeal be accepted?:

So over the last month i've been approched by a few members of admin team, notably Xzero and Vekter, about how a lot of people attributed my way of playing as Antag rolling.

these conversations all seemed to have ended peacefully, (at least to me) As I tend to partecipate in rounds for a good 40 to 60 minutes before i decide it's time to call it quits, which to said admins seemed reasonable enough.

I tend to alt tab often while playing the game(Or any game really), either to do some work on the side or code for my prs, I prefer signing up as an engineer precisely because it allows me to take some free time for these activities. It's a chill job so long as power is operational and there are no breaches to fix.

Today I got caught in a couple of rounds which admittedly even to the least keen obvserver might look a bit suspicious.

On round 245240, i set up the super matter, the SMES, then scoured maintenence for cut wires, once I' was back to my post, since there wasn't much going on and we were like 9 people on station, I decided to go for lunch. at my return, 5-10 minutes before I returned, i rolled sleeper agent.

The very next round,245241 which is where the ban occured, I stuffed my character in a crate shortly after the beginning, reason is, I started a DM conversation with coder and ex-admin NecromancerAnne about a PR i was keenly interested on, If required I might share proof this conversation occured at the time the shift started.

But alas i rolled sleeper once again mid-conversation, and that's when Blitz bwoinked me, I don't have much to say about it, it looks bad, but wheter you believe me or not it was a result of happen stance, I never disconnected or go ssd at the start of the shifts, you can check my history over the few months for confirmation.

Still I think a short ban, or ammoniton was probably justified, I should have been more considerate after my previous admin intereactions .

What I did end up getting however was a permanent suspension, which seems so many levels of overkill to me, I don't recall ever leaving or being SSD at the start of a round save for this one, Yes sometimes I do take breaks, , but again I beg the admin team for a little of common sense here. There's plenty of downtime when we are less than 10 people on station, people often take breaks and I'm hardly alone in that regard.

Still, wheter you think my reasoning is solid or not; my last note for antag rolling was over 2 years ago, I've sank thousand of hours into the game since then, jumping straight to permanent ban just seems cruel.

Over the last couple of weeks I've made a genuine effort in being more active during rounds; I even got told by Xzero that I've made an improvement in this regard. it sucks that this effort got wasted, but maybe I need to seriously reconsider how I invest my time and mayhaps stop working on my PRs when I'm playing.

Again it's not a result of Malice, just a combination of crippling ADHD and a compulsion to multi task, I have a hard time focussing on just one thing at a time.

Blitz says she's seen this appeal and will get you a reply later on today.

Hey Jake,

So in the recent past you were talked to about engaging with the round more when you were a non-antagonist, and of course I've witnessed some myself of you actively playing "more than usual". However, a significant portion of the time I (and some community members in-game) have seen you in round has been you being either a super awesome antagonist or sitting in a room AFK/Alt+Tabbed. Now of course this wouldn't be as much of an issue if it wasn't ~20 minutes into a round. For context, the first round witnessed you were AFK 25 minutes in for 10+ minutes, someone in dchat had pointed it out, you sat through a rad storm only to come back less than 4 minutes after rolling sleeper agent, which sparked my interest in investigating further despite that being a very likely coincidence. The second round I joined 20 minutes in to check on you again and found you laying in a closed crate AFK for 3-5 minutes afterwards to which I promptly gave you sleeper agent to see how you'd react, and 30 seconds later you hopped out of the crate and began unloading tools / preparing for antagonist business. The two rounds I witnessed which lead me to apply the ban was highly coincidental and even if your intention wasn't necessarily to antag roll, it highlights a different matter which is basically adjacent/equivalent, and that being simply not playing the game or engaging in any rounds while having antagonist roles enabled and only beginning to actually play if you manage to roll. This behavior in general is frowned upon as it is basically the former with extra steps, and playing this way doesn't seem fair to those who are actively participating in the round who could be chosen for the role instead.

Though of course this appeal isn't about justification for the ban it is about harshness; The ban was given on the basis that it is not a permanent ban but rather a "permanent" one, which I did explain in the ticket the intention of the "permanent" ban. In this case, I didn't feel it would be proper to issue you a temporary ban and watch you ride out the storm by not playing altogether, but rather a permanent one to be looked at as a means to incentivize more engagement with rounds before allowing you the opportunity to roll antagonist again. Of course, nobody wants to see you unable to play antagonists forever, that was never the intention. Given the circumstances above I believed, and still believe, this is the right call.

I did suggest a couple months of showcasing improvement in gameplay and engagement in rounds before appealing, and that is still how I believe this situation would be best handled. I believe the ban should stay as it is and be appealed in a month or two when we can safely say "Yeah, he has improved".

BlitzArde wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 6:38 am Hey Jake,

Now of course this wouldn't be as much of an issue if it wasn't ~20 minutes into a round.

This is the part I'd like to focus on.

I don't recall ever doing that in recent (and by recent i mean literal months) history , I've made an habit to partecipate for the round for at least 40 minutes, my advise it to check the logs

The 2 rounds in question was a fuck up of mine, and I do agree they require an ammonition, but you are making it sound like it's a repeated pattern that's been going for months and it is just not.

Manuel shifts tend to drag for 2+ hours sometimes, especially on lowpop, i've gotten ahelped for quitting the round after more than an hour has passed, multiple times in fact.

You mentioned in our admin convos that my reputation as an antag or my contributions a a coder have nothing to do with it, I beg to differ, I can provide tangible proof there is a strong resentment from a group of players towards what I do.

Still I'm not against having to prove I can play the game for X amount of time without being an antag.

May I ask this to be shortened to a couple of weeks If I'm very active? Holidays are almost here, So I have time for a few more rounds.

To be fair, I've only heard good things about you being an antagonist. The only somewhat negative rep you've had that I've witnessed is related to the reason I applied the ban, which is about you AFKing all the time unless antagonist, and even so, it is not the main reason and that was just the incentive to investigate in the first place. It does seem like sometimes you only play enough to get admins off your case rather than because you enjoy playing, which would line up with you saying you play lowpop because it's chill and you can alt+tab to code/talk to others in long Discord conversations; Either way I felt as if you have a lot of excuses prepped and have this on your mind constantly because you want to ensure that you're in OK grounds to be AFK, and I'd personally rather you be in a spot where you're having fun playing the game instead of relying on antagonist roles to really get into it.

I feel like 2 weeks is a bit short considering the circumstances and feel like a *month* (keeping it as permanent but appeal in a month's time) at least is appropriate, and then lifting the ban if we see improvement. If you want a headmin to give their advice or stance on this that is totally your call!

I feel Like I said everything that needed saying, If you are not willing to scour logs or discord to confirm what I've said so be it, I'm not bothering the headmins for a month suspension.

In my individual view there is no magic length of time for round participation where you can now officially tab out or AFK and be fine to tab back in if you get antag.

That sole act of going inactive only to return to activity if you get antag will, at any point in the shift, risk provoking admin attention.

In my opinion you either need to stop playing just to tab out at some point and actually commit to disconnecting/ghosting when you're done playing; or just disable antags entirely so you're safe to dip in and out of shift participation without risk of picking up antag then looking like you're AFKing until you get antag.

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 9:31 pm In my individual view there is no magic length of time for round participation where you can now officially tab out or AFK and be fine to tab back in if you get antag.

That sole act of going inactive only to return to activity if you get antag will, at any point in the shift, risk provoking admin attention.

In my opinion you either need to stop playing just to tab out at some point and actually commit to disconnecting/ghosting when you're done playing; or just disable antags entirely so you're safe to dip in and out of shift participation without risk of picking up antag then looking like you're AFKing until you get antag.

I think this is a very reasonable suggestion, One I admittedly should have should thought way sooner.

This seems to be resolved.