/tg/Station 13

BYOND account: MatrixOne

Ban/note type (Server Ban/Discord Ban/Forum Ban/Note): Note
Ban/note duration: Note expires 2024-12-31 02:17:40
Ban/note reason: [Common] Selena Rohrmann hisses, "I had that cum on my face for 20 minutes"
Was spoken to about what may constitute toeing around rule 8, and they specified it was a joke due to being inked.
Time ban was placed: 2024-11-17 02:20:48
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 242389 but the fateful joke was said in round 242377

Why are you making this appeal? (Put an x in the boxes):
() - The ban/note is factually incorrect
(X) - The ban/note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
(X) - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?:
I believe there's an important distinction within rule 8 for jokes that are a part of the slapstick nature of ss13, and I have concerns about how the note was handled. The note was applied because someone in discord, post-round, posted my joke because they thought it was funny. Regardless, this prompted TBM to bwoink me. The bwoink went like this: There are a few concerns in how this was handled. The main one is that there was no one made uncomfortable by the joke, and in fact someone thought it was funny, that's why they posted it on the mannycord. So it was TBM's own judgment that prompted them to note me. In the past I was targeted by unprompted overenforcement by admins with no "victim" or demand for a bwoink, so this made me feel quite bad, especially since the logs were down and I told him about what happened in good faith, but he still felt the need to leave a note. It also didn't help that this note is for a shift where TMB's static was on the run from me as HoS, and I arrested and brigged him at one point, then he opens this ticket and handles it himself to punish me. There may also be other factors, such as that TBM has been dealing with a mirror of a mass rule 8 ban of suspicious individuals from Monkestation, and this may have gotten him to crack down on other rule 8 adjacent problems or be less lenient, as anyone would, considering the subject matter, but I still don't want to be treated more harshly as a result. My point with this paragraph is to explain why I have some concerns about objectivity and would like a third party, who wasn't involved in that shift, to look over the topic. Even if they reaffirm the note.

Now about rule 8, the shortest rule of all. The rule is there to protect people from being made uncomfortable and to get rid of ERP, but I believe the point of it is not to crack down on dick jokes and the like. Nothing about my joke was "erotic roleplay" as stated in the rule. There should be a very clear distinction between dumb non sequiturs, slapstick and silliness when it's all in good fun and everyone is in on the joke, and shit that makes people uncomfortable and makes their experience of the game worse, which should be cracked down on. This may be a difficult line to tread but it's not defined in the rule itself, which leads to cases of overenforcement like this one. Even the person who posted the screencap thought it was funny. So why?

For comparison, this is the emagged sec hailer text that's in the game and played often for the meme factor:
And lastly, TBM said I "went out of my way to say something sexually explicit." My character Selena is a toothy tomboy sort of character and it's in her nature to be dumb and silly on occasion, especially in response to dumb and silly events that are in ss13's nature, but it's never about being sexually explicit or weird. Jokes of Sel's caliber have been pretty standard on Manuel - here's the proof, posted with Dendydoom's permission:
So, if times have changed, then maybe this appeal can have us consider an expansion to rule 8 to make this line a bit clearer. In the end, I made this appeal because I'd feel better about the note - even if it were upheld - if another uninvolved party had a look and confirmed this was the general consensus on the topic, rather than just one person's judgment. I trust Timber and Jane's judgment. And I know I don't have a right to request their time and I should first talk to TBM, so I came up with a compromise: you said in the ticket that you placed the note to have a paper trail in case someone had repeated instances of such behavior. Well, this appeal is in itself a paper trail, so would you be willing to remove the note now? And by the way, I appreciate that you gave it an expiration date, a lot of admins don't do that. But it still remains on record, even if faded, and I'd like Selena to keep being her silly self without having to puritanize her language. I can't do that with a note like that on the record.

you don't need to puritanize your language, you just have to not make complete non-sequitur jokes that reference something so overtly sexual that they could be construed as an ERP reference to a looker-on. the person you were speaking to didn't set you up for the joke or do anything to indicate they were playing into it as a bit, you just threw it out there. that context is important - part of my headmin campaign itself last term was on loosening the reins of rule 8 to let people make more crass jokes without fear of the lash, provided that the 'joke' itself couldn't be construed as crankbait fulfilment on the jokers part. i think talking about having cum on your femstatics face entirely unprompted nudged past that line, but i also know you well enough to give you the benefit of the doubt that it was just a whiffed attempt at being off the cuff with your humor - which is why it was an expiring note with the duration of a little over a month.

I'm not sure why the gender of my character is relevant here. It's kind of shocking that you genuinely think Selena being silly is "crankbait fulfillment on my part," I can't really think of what else I can say except ask for an outside party to weigh in. I realize I'm not entitled to the headmins' time, but I was encouraged by Dramazing and Dendy to make an appeal to have more people reaffirm the line of rule 8. I think it'd be valuable not just for me, but in general. You didn't mention the compromise I brought up, so I suppose that's out of the question. It seems like you believe you were being lenient with the expiring note, but from my perspective this happened with no warning and was a medium intensity note when my other notes were minor. I really don't want to have a rule 8 note on my record, even a faded one. Would it be all right to ask for a headmin weigh-in in this case?

Unless something has changed recently, expired notes are outright deleted from your record.

We'll have a response to this shortly (within 24hrs/within the ability for all 3 headmins to type +1 or -1 or change this). It's not like it needs 5 hours or log diving or a complex ethics debate or anything. Responses being drafted up in headmin channels and when the response is agreed we'll drop it here.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

The rule at play here is simple. Rule 8.

8. Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed.

No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants.

But I'm also going to highlight another rule. Rule 9.

9. Players need to be the age of 18 or above.

This rule is for the benefit of and is meant to protect people who shouldn't be playing here due to the nature of the SS13 community [...]

Rule 9 means that /tg/station is an adult community exclusively for adults.

Not in the sense that people are adults acting like adults, there are still plenty of immature people around and age is no marker of maturity. But we can expect all people playing to be adults and as a general rule of thumb we should act like those around us are 18 or older. Jokes around mature topics are going to happen. We should approach rule enforcement from this perspective.

It's true that Rule 8 enforcement has changed and evolved. Penis inspection day would not fly in 2024. But we have to be sensible about things.

Rule 8's lane is protecting the people behind the screen from predators, perverts, horny-on-main weirdos and fetish freaks. It's about telling people if they're going to e-fuck while playing, do it in DMs and don't get caught metacomming, or go to one of the ERP servers. Rule 8 is not meant to crack down on adult jokes or puerile humour incorporating adult themes.

We don't need to be afraid of inappropriate jokes. We don't need to be afraid of dick jokes, or vagina jokes, or sploosh jokes, or cum jokes, or poop jokes.

As-is, I don't believe this is an issue that needs cracking down on. I also don't believe it's a Rule 8 issue. May just be a little cringe though. The question I ask myself when making this decision is whether the behaviour would be appropriate only on an ERP server. My answer has to be no.

And my co-headmins broadly agree.

It's just a cum joke. It doesn't look like it was sent in a creepy or erotic way. It doesn't even come close to toeing the line of even the least severe stuff Rule 8 is meant to prohibit. It is not ERP. It's just a dumb, childish one-liner. And dumb, childish one-liners aren't inherently against the rules.

While it's true that notes are records of admin conversations, is this incident something any future admin needs to know or should factor into their decision making or form the basis of a greater overall enforcement against this player? No, we don't think that it would be fair or proportionate for a classic dumb cum-on-my-face one-liner in response to a player being pied or inked or whatever to form the basis of any future admin interaction with this player.

Accordingly, we are asking TheBibleMelts to delete this note.

Timberpoes: Wrote it. I also refer to annoying tasks as "cock and ball" from the hit Wikipedia article on "cock and ball torture". Am I gonna get Rule 8 blasted the next time I say something is cock and ball? That sounds like it would be cock and ball to me.
DrAmazing: I’ve made the Banana Cream Pie cum joke before. We’re all adults here.
Burger: Agreed with Timber and DrAmazing, he doesn't think it touches Rule 8.

Note deleted. Appeal resolved.