/tg/Station 13

These rules are a bit fast and loose, but this is our starter temporary "silipol" additions. Please post any feedback/changes you would like to see to better codify these as my wicked personal experiment continues.

-Crewsimov is still banned. Do not Crewsimov to circumvent the weakness of Nonhuman Heads.
-Laws that make Heads human will also be considered as circumventing the weakness of Nonhuman Heads.

The purpose of these is to ensure that people do not lame away the weakness inherent to being a Nonhuman Head. A big part of why I've been a proponent of all this is because I want to see NEW STORIES and NEW CONFLICT and just as we do not really allow Crewsimov FNR I want to keep the spice to the AI here as well.

The station trait for a random AI relaw will remain untouched, for those wondering.

What's the stance on non human heads changing the lawset to other lawsets besides crewsimov and altered asimov?

DrAmazing343 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 7:48 am -Crewsimov is still banned. Do not Crewsimov to circumvent the weakness of Nonhuman Heads.
-Laws that make Heads human will also be considered as circumventing the weakness of Nonhuman Heads.

That seems pretty explicit about not doing that, so I don't see how nonhumans for some reason get a pass.

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 8:22 am

DrAmazing343 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 7:48 am -my own snib-

-her own snab-

I'll keep it one-hundred here and say this is very snowflakey of me to put down, but it's all I could come up with on the spot. I will very gladly take suggestions on improvements— I want to work with you guys for what you want to see, and to hear what smarter folks than I think about it. This policy thread will hopefully actively shape the temporary silipol and worst comes worst, it's only gonna last two weeks anyhow.

Lacran wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 8:19 am What's the stance on non human heads changing the lawset to other lawsets besides crewsimov and altered asimov?

This, I'll likely just let the team takes the reins on ensuring the changes are in good-faith rather than trying to game around the conflicts that arise. I don't see a way to cleanly implement something explicitly barring this without clamping down on nonhumans changing laws ever.

I guess the simplest way to do it is to just have much higher standards for crew regarding altering asimov specific laws.

Something like:

"Crew cannot alter an asimov a.is laws if the main goal is to remove or redefine human bias to the benefit of non human crew. Crew must have a good reason to alter or remove asimov in other circumstances"

So we're just forbidding law changes based on the manifest being different, but this is also gonna require the standards to be temporarily higher for making other law changes like going to Paladin as those changes will be under greater scrutiny?

An example would be during a nukie war Dec swapping the a.i to paladin/corporate. This is fine because it's to get the a.i to protect the station against nukes, even if it's to the benefit of non human heads, which the a I would otherwise need to fight for the nukies.

If only it wasn’t so easy to just relaw the AI outside of upload. We could leave the policy as “the AI can totally kill you if you try to relaw it as nonhuman so don’t Get upset when it happens “ And we wouldn’t need this policy We could just let it play out all in character.

But we don’t live in that world and any nonhuman head of staff could just make an upload somewhere in a room with no cameras So this policy is required.

I’ve had mostly just fine experiences. Only one round in particular, which happened earlier today, have I seen any issues with a nonhuman research Director. It brought up a good question. Does the research Director have the right To change the AI laws to whatever they want as a non-antag? If the AI must obey their orders ( usually when they are a human and the ai is asimov) the ai must let them into upload. Unless there is a law one issue. So Does this right Mean that the research director is allowed to arbitrarily change the AI laws? or is their job more so that they are meant to be keeping the AI on Asimov Maintaining asimov? Question came up because it was like well. They are the research Director, so Do they have the character right to be doing this messing with the AI that they’re doing? Should I be arresting for them for this is as hos? they wound up not being an antagonist and they were just straight griefing the ai and borgs.

If only it wasn't so easy, indeed!

It's 100% okay to arrest people for lawing the AI to get around restrictions, though ideally admins will deal with it first and you won't have to do that legwork. If they don't feel free to fix the problem IC!

Research Directors are still subject to the silipol, and especially so nonhumans trying to get around their inherent weakness— it's super lame and against the spirit of this test. While adminning here and there for the past few days, I've only had one case where the Captain lawed that lizards were also human, and I was instantly on 'em and got two ahelps to get on 'em, as well. All was fine and the Captain fixed it, though it's good to see other players also working to keep the sovl there.

Please ahelp any time you see folks breaking this silipol. Despite a motd and newsbus announcement, it's still not entirely known, so I'm advising admins to keep punishments light, but hands firm on the matter. It's refreshing to see so few problems overall so far, though!

maint uploads are a scourge on the game idk why we have super fortress ai upload chamber but then you can just build a second one in the alley behind a 7/11 and upload your one human greentext law

bros... don't tell her about the upload in the back room of walmart

I love this, I've been having tons of fun. There's this inter-departmental dynamic that you just don't get as a lowly crewmember that as a head you can truly appreciate. And like, it's not that I dont have a backup human static to be head whenever I need it, I do, but my non-human static is simply more recognized than my human one, she has some history behind her, people know her and go "oh NO bluti's the head" as they fucking should

dendydoom wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 8:11 am maint uploads are a scourge on the game idk why we have super fortress ai upload chamber but then you can just build a second one in the alley behind a 7/11 and upload your one human greentext law

code solution requiring upload consoles to be within a certain radius of the core? At the very least it'd nail down the rough location of anyone fucking with the laws even if they do manage to slap a console together in a camera blindspot.

I'd prefer a code solution like ORM linkage where you have to manually link the AI to the console, with any roundstart/latejoin AI being automatically linked to the uploads. That way you can change AI units you made but it is harder to make a new console for pre-existing ones

Turns out players largely went with everything after a few slaps on wrists. Good job, /tg/!