/tg/Station 13

"""Well, if that's the best you can give right now, I'm sorry but I'll have to say no to overturning the permaban I put down, at least for now. But if you give this say... 4 months, assuming you don't get into trouble on another server, if you appeal again there's a pretty OK chance I'll end up overturning the ban."""

Admin name: Tax Fraud
BYOND account:[Jshilingthe15th]
Ban/note type (Check what applies):[Perma]
Server Ban[Y]
Note[N/A]
Forum Ban[N]
Discord Ban[N]

Ban/note length:[Inf]
Ban/note reason:["self-admitted they would meta grudge another player for having previously ruined their round in admin PM's"]
Time ban was placed:[2:20~ Pm]
Server you were playing on when banned:[Sybil]
Round ID in which ban was placed:[231673]

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):[To be unbanned]
The ban/note is factually incorrect[N]
The ban/note is not against the rules[Y]
The ban/note needs modification[Y]
The ban was unjustifiably harsh[Y]
I was permabanned and I want another chance[Y]

Why should this appeal be accepted?:[I was banned for saying I would meta grudge someone but I never did nor will I meta grudge them, I was banned for something I never did nor will do.]

So, two things.

One, the primary condition I gave you 4 months or so ago was that when you appealed again, you weren't doing anything to get yourself in trouble on another server, but if I take a glance over at your CentCom page you got two bans from Beestation. One for not following their roleplay standards which isn't super bad except for the part where you admit to having never read their rules after 100 hours on there, and the other for self-antagging as a golem. Both of those bans were within about 2 weeks of each other, and the last one was about 2.5 weeks before you made this appeal, and you didn't exactly address the fact that that happened in the appeal despite it again being the one big condition I put on this appeal.

Two, your appeal reason is literally the exact same thing you said last time.

So, between those things there's nothing that's showing me you actually changed how you play and that you won't actually start metagrudging someone while I'm not looking or just kill someone 4noraisin.

Gonna have to say no to appealing the ban again, this time you'll have to wait the usual 12 months to appeal again if you want to though since this one was meant to be a quick second chance on the grounds that you didn't actually metagrudge anyone, sorry!

Well it's been 4 days, I'm just gonna give this another day before I move this thread and lock it.

The main input I have on this appeal is as an incoming headmin is:

Ordinarily we don't insta permaban for metagrudging. Most of the entries in our notes database for a first instance of actually metagruding another player are mostly treated similar to FNR kills, on both Manuel and Terry.

Based on their note history and playtime, would would the level of punishment have been for actually metagruding someone instead of sassing you in the ticket with a threat to?

If they would have been banned for less time for actually doing the metagrudge, then I definitely think that's something to take into consideration.

Well to answer the question, if I were to have banned them after they had already gone through and killed someone for a metagrudge (whether or not they self admitted to it since it would've been relatively obvious from chat logs), I probably still would've permabanned them anyway. The new bans that Jshiling here got after being banned from TG kinda solidify to me that they don't really have an interest in whatever rules are set up and seem to just do whatever they want.

Going back to the CentCom page again, a month long silicon ban on Bee for trying to get their laws changed to hunt antags multiple times, an appearance ban for not following naming guidelines for the 5th time in 2 months (admittedly not that bad on its own but with everything else I'll add it helps paint the picture better), a 3 day ban for a bad kill on Monke followed by a full on ban for metacomming, NRP tiding, and lying in ahelps, and then after being banned from TG there's the two extra bans I mentioned earlier where again they told Bee's admins they literally did not read the rules in 100 hours of play.

Everything I can see from here both before and after their TG ban indicates that they don't care about the rules and probably will continue not to, so as I said before nothing I see gives me confidence that if they were allowed back on TG in the hypothetical of being banned for an actual metagrudge kill or the actual situation of being banned for saying they would, that they wouldn't just break the rules again anyway.

P.S, not sure how threating another player is sass towards me in particular, unless it's like a "I don't respect your authority" thing, but that's besides the point really

Calling it sass in the ticket is just me being polite.

I could have called it being a drooling knuckledragger with a distinct lack of social intelligence to tell someone that can ban you that you'll definitely break the rules. But that wouldn't be very becoming of a headmin. So sass it is.

Thanks for the longer form explanation of your justification behind the permaban duration.

Gonna keep this open a bit longer to see if any headmins/elects have an opinion, just due to it being the second denied perma appeal with no public headmin input so far. If not, it'll get the classic tgstation Fuck Around x Find Out stamp and we'll move it to resolved.

Doesn't look like any headmins/elects care so uh, stop getting banned from other servers and come back to re-appeal with a vouch or in 12 months. Whichever passes first.