Admin complaint

[marqe]

BYOND account: Marqe_
Character name: Markky 'Marqe' Kough
The note itself: A marine shot them at round end, answered back and killed the marine. The marine initiating the FF apologized and wanted to take sole responsibility in the situation. Though, due to repeated pattern into similar behavior, and that the player does not recognize the rules, this is your very last warning when it comes to this situation. If you are being griefed: ahelp.
Time note was placed: 2024-08-19 12:59:50
Round ID in which note was placed: 29155
Your side of the story: I got hit with an adhesive grenade (refer to image 1) after which i got PBd with a shotgun (refer to image 2), so i thought that the guy that pbd me was doing it intentionally so i killed him with my claymore (refer to image 3), admin also stated that the person said sorry for the friendly fire, however i did not hear nor see any excuses from them. Some time ago another admin gibbed me for accidentally pbing a marine with the automatic shotgun after the round ended (refer to image 4), which seems really comical that when i shoot someone on accident, i get gibbed, however when i get shot, i can't even defend myself.
Why do you think it should be removed/reworded: i doubt it was fair in any case and i don't think i deserve that after such treatment.

image 1


image 2


image 3


image 4


extra evidence i wanted to mention because i thought it seemed funny


issue a ban for defending yourself after getting pb-d

[JeanManche]

Good evening,

Please, refer to the "Escalation" section of the rules. You will find it copy-pasted below:

► Show Spoiler

Escalation
The game mode is based on factions versus factions, as opposed to antagonist paranoia. Shenanigans must be kept harmless. If they end up with harm of same-team members, making their job severely more difficult or annoying (such as stealing essential gear), or depleting resources in ways that negatively affect the team, then they have crossed the line.

Legitimate conflicts do happen from time to time. This can mean a disagreement or even a brawl. The key to determining if they are valid or not is whether they are RP-fitting. If an action would realistically cause you to be executed, permanently imprisoned, or dishonorably discharged at best, then it’s probably not fitting in the context. Try to err on the side of caution and follow the chain of command when in doubt. Report it to the admins if your superior is being completely unreasonable.

Examples of non-fitting behavior: intent to kill a fellow marine (using guns, melee weapons or to keep attacking them after they’ve been downed), attacking a superior officer, starting a brawl in a combat zone, RPing to be mentally unstable or otherwise unfit for work or duty.

Murders or executions are unlikely to be legitimate.

Note: Battlefield executions and mutinies are not a thing in TGMC. If you have a problem with a player or with the command staff, try to find other means to solve it or ahelp.

I would like also you to read the Rule 1, Precedent 3:

► Show Spoiler

Escalation rules still apply after the round has ended, except for in EORD. End of Round Deathmatch (EORD) is the place for after the round combat.

In this case, this is a text-book rulebreak that you did literally on my screen.
The other player involved initiating the FF was handled and formally warned as they had no prior warnings nor notes regarding those kind of situations.
You in the other hand had prior warnings.

The other player apologized and asked to take responsibility to protect you from the consequences from your action. This is why I issued you a warning instead of a ban, considering the previous notes you have when it comes to similar situations. Especially when you could have just ahelped, get ahealed, and let the other player be the sole person being boinked.

Unless higher staff would say otherwise, the note stays. As written in the note, this is the last one before more deterrent actions would be taken. You were already warned in the past.

[marqe]

as i stated and as you can see in the screenshots of chat, i saw no apologies and i was considering it intentional, sorry that instead of ahelping while being killed i attacked him instead.

Stated rules also make no sense, as he literally was the one to break them, he attacked his superior, all i did was i fought back, i heard no "sorry" nor nothing, he didn't even take the shotgun off his hands, considering me guilty in this situation is just straight on idiotic. Neither do i see a log of an apology from you meaning you are either lying or he apologized to you instead of me.

[JeanManche]

The other player apologized and asked to take responsibility to protect you from the consequences from your action.

Apologies if this wasn't clear: the player apologized to me, during the ahelp for the situation they caused.

As for the rules making no sense:
You cannot antagonize, nor consider antagonism as IC issue on TGMC. This is to cut any griefing behavior and consider it both OOC and rulebreak.
On the opposite, if we would follow your point of view, we should allow players to antagonize and suffer IC consequences such as Military Police or popular judgement.
Those kind of consequences would bring more roundflow disruption which we try to avoid as this is a team deathmatch server.

In 3 months of playing on TGMC you collected 1 perma ban and 4 notes (including the one concerned by your complaint).
This is more than what players could get in years of playing on this server.

[marqe]

Weird to hear that especially considering the other players do get bwoinked for the weirdest stuff on the weirdest occasions, most of which is actually friendly fire. I don't see how me having warns excuses giving me a hard note while defending myself during an act of friendly fire, especially after the other party literally said that they are sorry and that was their fault. I don't know how you can talk about an actual ban in this case, at this point this happens so often that you'd have to ban a good amount of players of TGMC.

Really comical to see you saying all this and defending the other side when i got literally gibbed by another admin for a honest mistake in a familiar situation.

Also sorry, i was meant to say using them (rules) in this case makes no sense, as they literally were the first to break them.

[JeanManche]

When it comes to life, or when it comes to communities, what you do matters, not what the others do.
This complaint is about a situation between you, another player, and my ruling regarding said matter. This is not about X, Y, or Z person unrelated to the direct situation.
This direct situation is linked to you, you, and your history of notes. You were previously warned for this specific kind of behavior you are still doing. Meaning you do not understand the value of a warning, and there will not be another warning if you do another mistake about FFing intentionnally. At some point, we cannot eternally warn players for repeated rulebreak patterns.

If you want to make a formal complaint about the other admin, do so. But stay on subject here, please.

Unless you have additional inputs, I will await a headmin ruling on this complaint.

[marqe]

I do understand the value of warning, i didn't attack him out of my hate or grudge to that player, i was trying to defend myself, which is quite different than the other friendly fire incident, this is straight on defending myself and i do not see myself guilty here, sorry.

[Henriquekill9576]

As JeanManche stated above, your actions are your own, attempting to justify it by comparing it to a different situation is not going to fly here, you're free to make another complaint about the gibbing, but this one is about you killing another marine. You may not see yourself guilty, but rules are rules, the player's opinion does not override them.

Heres a section of our escalation rules:

Examples of non-fitting behavior: intent to kill a fellow marine (using guns, melee weapons or to keep attacking them after they’ve been downed), attacking a superior officer, starting a brawl in a combat zone, RPing to be mentally unstable or otherwise unfit for work or duty.

Murders or executions are unlikely to be legitimate.

Note: Battlefield executions and mutinies are not a thing in TGMC. If you have a problem with a player or with the command staff, try to find other means to solve it or ahelp.

Regardless of your reasoning, you still killed a marine when you could have ahelped. And since the other player apologized and asked to take responsibility, your potential ban was reduced to a warning and a note, the only way this complaint would be valid is if you either did not kill the marine or could not ahelp for some reason (no admins online for example). As such, I'll go ahead and deny this complaint.