/tg/Station 13

Okay, so. Hear me out on this. I have done extensive testing both on the /tg/ servers and on my own private one. I have come to the conclusion that there is literally no reason, why they -shouldn't- be roundstart.

I guess I'll just list race features.

- Come equipped with a plasmasuit, the suit can handle space and acts as an EVA suit with built in fire extinguishers (comes with helmet light). They also start with pure plasma internals.
- Cannot breathe oxygen. Oxygen is highly toxic to them.
- Oxygen ignites them outside a suit. Causing massive burn damage and death.
- Purpleplasmaskeletons.
- The same as all other species other than the above.
(Not including the RP side of things)

So. Comments, questions?


EDIT: I forgot to mention liquid plasma heals them fairly rapidly.
EDIT: The poll now ends in a week, if the result is more against than for, then the plasmamen will remain admin only.

I like the idea, especially if the suit can be punctured and spray plasma everywhere before the pressure inside drops and the oxygen outside gets in and turns the plasmaman and suit into a walking pipebomb.

Can we please have that? I don't think there are enough violent gibbings.

If we were going to add in a new alien species that breaths a non-oxygen atmosphere then there would have to be somewhere on the station that used their normal air as a sort of break room for them.

Stan_Studnick wrote:I like the idea, especially if the suit can be punctured and spray plasma everywhere before the pressure inside drops and the oxygen outside gets in and turns the plasmaman and suit into a walking pipebomb.

Can we please have that? I don't think there are enough violent gibbings.

This is not in the current code and is unlikely to be added.

Don't you think it is a bit of a balance issue to allow starting with a space suit?

Sorry on the late reply, I just got home from work.

Steelpoint wrote:If we were going to add in a new alien species that breaths a non-oxygen atmosphere then there would have to be somewhere on the station that used their normal air as a sort of break room for them.

It could be an engineering construction protect. There is no real -need- for a break area for purplespessskeletons.

Wyzack wrote:Don't you think it is a bit of a balance issue to allow starting with a space suit?

Not really. Because removal of the suit means death. No way to wear armour. I believe it also slows you somewhat as an EVA suit would. So really. No, I don't forsee any balance issue besides maybe plasmapeople being a tad weak.

The idea is interesting but honestly I think it might be too disruptive.

The only implementation method that I can see as being effective is if either Plasmapeople are a unique job of sorts that limits their numbers or they are stranded on a planet as per the 'Migrants' suggestion.

Steelpoint wrote:The idea is interesting but honestly I think it might be too disruptive.

The only implementation method that I can see as being effective is if either Plasmapeople are a unique job of sorts that limits their numbers or they are stranded on a planet as per the 'Migrants' suggestion.

Define disruptive for me please.



Also, as they are currently. They -can- act as any job, effectively as well might I add. (well...besides Sec).


What is the unique job that you have in mind?

Nope, no more races

Considering they're spaceworthy at roundstart, I wouldn't mind them having their own kind of satellite thing separated from the main station (like the AI chamber). But then they're just snowflakier assistants.
How about we finally make that space explorer job, but make it so plasmamen do the space exploring? Iunno.

PKPenguin321 wrote:Considering they're spaceworthy at roundstart, I wouldn't mind them having their own kind of satellite thing separated from the main station (like the AI chamber). But then they're just snowflakier assistants.
How about we finally make that space explorer job, but make it so plasmamen do the space exploring? Iunno.

Seems like a little much for the map to physically change for plasmamen. (Also note that plasmamen are unable to be head roles thanks to not being human.) On the job idea, being a plasmaman with the only purpose being to explore, feels a little, wasteful (Not even considering the RP potential).

A round start race needs to be slightly worse than humans to keep things competitive. Given the circumstances any race that could be designed that fits that moniker would be so stylistically similar to lizards that it would be hard to justify their inclusion as a round start race.

There really can't be any benefits to playing a round start mutant race, even benefits that cover drawbacks like the space suit. Hell even having the ability to set yourself on fire on command can be weaponized pretty easily.

Also stylistically I just don't see plasmamen as a tgstation culture thing. It's a bit too silly to be something that's entrenched as "a normal everyday thing" for me.

three jobs (not races) start within viewing distance of a hardsuit, miner, engi, atmos. Not to mention the captain.
Not sure why this would be bad.

What's to stop them from quickly removing it, catching someone on fire via shoving, and then putting it back on though?

Falamazeer wrote:three jobs (not races) start within viewing distance of a hardsuit, miner, engi, atmos. Not to mention the captain.
Not sure why this would be bad.

What's to stop them from quickly removing it, catching someone on fire via shoving, and then putting it back on though?

Glad somebody else shares the same point of view. Rule 1 (of not being a dick) would mean, taking off your suit to ignite people and putting it back on. Is a violation. Slipping them as a nonantag clown, and stealing their internals or suit. Also Rule 1. (As the plasmaman would quickly burn and die from having no suit.)


On the question of just chucking the suit back on. The suit has limited charges, nine if I remember correctly, on when it can put you out. Wasting them to ignite people as an antag (when you take double fire damage I believe). Is basically a waste of time, when compared to sleeppen, revolver. It's simply a shit move that'll get you lynched. Plus a beer bottle and a welder has the same end effect if you wanted to ignite people as a human or lizard, with far more damage.

oranges wrote:Nope, no more races

This entire thread needs to be locked.

Balance that requires direct admin intervention can be a slippery slope though, I'm glad that the suit can only put them out a few times, but a better method might be a cooldown that takes a few seconds to put it back on, Or maybe they should just stay on fire anyways and have to resist or extinguish just like their victim, but having taken more damage.

Because it isn't quite the same as a bottle and welder trick, bottles take a click, you can just keyboard right up to someone in a shoving match to make this happen.
Still, I say go for it, and if it winds up an abused mess I'm sure steps will be taken to fix it. you got my vote.

Not sure why people are against more 'snowflake races' We got humans, lizards, borgs, AI, Drones, PAI, etc etc
Having more options is always a good thing.

ThatSlyFox wrote:

oranges wrote:Nope, no more races

This entire thread needs to be locked.

This is a friendly discussion and a poll so I can get user feedback. There is no need to lock it, and it violates no forum rules. So hush and let people discuss.

Keep it admin only but how about adding "fresh" plasma men that can be created without admin shenanigans. Instead of plasma just causing toxin damage, make it so that prolonged expsoure to plasma can cause you to mutate into a "fresh plasmaman". Unlike their walking skeleton counterparts, fresh plasmamen still have chunks of dried, crispy flesh hanging to their plasma fused bones. They won't necessarily burst into flames when exposed to oxygen but they do constantly require internals pumping fresh plasma into their lungs. They also have the added drawback of walking VEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRYYYYYY SLOOOOOOWLLLLLLY. Like we're talking shuffling mindless zombie slow. They CAN however buff their speed back to normal for a period of time by injecting plasma into what little flesh they have left (patches work too but pills will just drop out of their ribcage).

made a quick front sprite for reference

Do the plasmamen cause damage to the environment if their suit is taken off? Like superheating the air around them or does it work similar to how burning monkeys/humans work?

Tokiko2 wrote:Do the plasmamen cause damage to the environment if their suit is taken off? Like superheating the air around them or does it work similar to how burning monkeys/humans work?

To my knowledge, they are just humans with special breathing datums and the ignition with oxygen.

Tokiko2 wrote:Do the plasmamen cause damage to the environment if their suit is taken off? Like superheating the air around them or does it work similar to how burning monkeys/humans work?

The code is exactly the same as a burning monkey or human but it procs more and cannot be put out. By procs more I mean it does double fire damage. They cause no damage to the environment around them, unless there is plasma in the air.

Jacough wrote:Keep it admin only but how about adding "fresh" plasma men that can be created without admin shenanigans. Instead of plasma just causing toxin damage, make it so that prolonged expsoure to plasma can cause you to mutate into a "fresh plasmaman". Unlike their walking skeleton counterparts, fresh plasmamen still have chunks of dried, crispy flesh hanging to their plasma fused bones. They won't necessarily burst into flames when exposed to oxygen but they do constantly require internals pumping fresh plasma into their lungs. They also have the added drawback of walking VEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRYYYYYY SLOOOOOOWLLLLLLY. Like we're talking shuffling mindless zombie slow. They CAN however buff their speed back to normal for a period of time by injecting plasma into what little flesh they have left (patches work too but pills will just drop out of their ribcage).

made a quick front sprite for reference

Hmm. Plausible idea, however people will force other players to become plasmamen for 'teh lulz'.

Problem with having plasmaman be a selectable race: You'd need to code a plasmaman spacesuit design for every department, which is lotsa sprites.

lmwevil wrote:Not really. Because removal of the suit means death. No way to wear armour. I believe it also slows you somewhat as an EVA suit would. So really. No, I don't forsee any balance issue besides maybe plasmapeople being a tad weak.

Only sec roles regularly wear armor, and I can't think of a circumstance in which your space suit is being removed where you've haven't already "lost." It's overwhelmingly common for people who get space suits to never take them off for the rest of the round, so I don't see "you must always wear a spacesuit" as much of a balancing factor for getting a guaranteed free spacesuit as every job. Even engineering and head roles have to worry about other people taking all the suits.

To put that short: The only role with unlimited space suit access is Cratelugger, either rank, and only if they can reliably pop those crates.

I'm getting the jist that the main issue we have is that the suit is space worthy. That can easily be fixed. There is no reason to totally scratch out the race for a simple object code edit. (However we leave them in a state of being unable to go into space if they had the need to with that change.)

If anyone's silly enough to play as these then I'm all for being able to light someone on fire by pushing them down and stealing their exosuit.

No, they should be brutally murdered whenever they appear.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 703#p27703

Let it be known I predicted this happening last year, and was accused of slippery sloping.

But no, it's a shitty idea. It will affect the gameplay and flow of the round too much.

0/10 slippery sloping again.

Sure, I think this sounds fun. Having different suit colours for different departments would be a lot of spriting, but it would be worth it to have a new race installed with all the new properties that could bring.

I'm slightly concerned about the whole 'setting people on fire' thing but I think that's more of a problem to do with fire setting alight every human it touches and less a problem with plasmamen specifically. For now I think they'd be a fun and potentially really entertaining new race, which could do everything as well as any other role (except security, command [in case of rev], and possibly a couple of other roles like miner and virologist, I don't know what their suits have for bio protection).

AFAIK all space suits have bio 100, so viro will probably work.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Problem with having plasmaman be a selectable race: You'd need to code a plasmaman spacesuit design for every department, which is lotsa sprites.

Good thing all those sprites have already been made.
Yup.
atleast 30 jobs have been sprited, specifically for plasmaskeles.

No, as in, we don't need 30 extra suit sprites to add to the dmi. It's so fucking painful sorting through files like suit.dm and energy.dm already because of how much shit's in there.

Edit: specifically because every time you exit a sprite's icon in dm, it reloads every image to see if they somehow changed, freezing the program or a few seconds.

Ok. Answer me this:

How do Plasmamen heal? You say liquid plasma rapidly heals them, is that all what heals them? How is it applied? Through space suit? Given the attitude of coders towards those, I doubt it.
Or are you saying the plasma vapors they breathe heal them as well?

Do they eat? If so, what and how? Not through the helmet that's for sure.

Should security execute all dangerous Plasmaman criminals on the spot? Clearly we can't perma or gulag them, since they have space suits.

And follow up question, what do you think would be the implications of potentially giving traitors a space suit from the get go?

Now consider all above, and ask yourself this:

What percentage of playerbase would pick plasmamen over humans and lizards that don't come with any cool mechanics? Would you be ok with Plasmamen being a majority on the station? Do you think it would change the feeling of the game if that was the case?

I think they should get some kinda membrane in either the shirt slot or as an actual property of the character. The membrane can be punctured easily by any object, even a punch. This allows them to remove the suit but at extreme risk and with no reason to do this besides to eat/get imprisoned. Perma can be modified to have a plasma-filled section so they can't just smash the glass and fuck off into space.

Modifying perma might get old when you get a plasmacriminal every round- though. Maybe if you give them an IV drip of something it maintains the membrane with that most likely being liquid plasma.

They have to wear suits that slow them way down, have to breath a rare gas that nobody trusts anybody with, have no AI protection, can't wear armor, can't wear disguises, can't even change their appearance (good luck finding a new plasmaman suit), they almost always die if they have their suit taken, and they are hard to heal.

But they are spaceworthy, which I guess means more than all of the above. Even though there is nothing even in space that's exceptionally noteworthy.

Also, plasmamen on /vg/ don't have any room with their atmospheric needs and they do just fine. We don't have to make any mapping changes for plasmamen. If your worried about them escaping perma, lock them in the small cells with the blastdoor shut. Or execute them since they aren't human and nobody cares about non-humans.

Well, space is access to most of the station, there's laser guns, EMP grenades, batons, a teleporter, an intelicard, a whole ship of goodies floating out there.

DemonFiren wrote:Well, space is access to most of the station, there's laser guns, EMP grenades, batons, a teleporter, an intelicard, a whole ship of goodies floating out there.

Wow.

Its fucking nothing.

Also, maint also has access to most the station.

DemonFiren wrote:Well, space is access to most of the station, there's laser guns, EMP grenades, batons, a teleporter, an intelicard, a whole ship of goodies floating out there.

Terrible logic, that's all space exploration RNG and is not a balance consideration.

Imagine a round where 60% of the station immediately fucked off to space at the start of the shift. Imagine getting anything done or finding an assassination target. It's the same reason the away portal is usually off.

That doesn't happen on /vg/ and they have even more stuff to loot in space than we do. Just because people can go to space doesn't mean they will.

Besides, have fun without a jetpack and no new source of internals.

So why is this a good idea again? I sounds like the plasma man are barely able to function as normal crew members. Also the number one method of assassination will be simply pulling of their suit.

lmwevil wrote:Hmm. Plausible idea, however people will force other players to become plasmamen for 'teh lulz'.

Deal with them the same way you'd deal with any other griefer, i.e. ban them. Lore wise, plasma may be invaluable in contributing to research and technology but it's also some pretty nasty shit that's extremely flammable and toxic. The ability to reduce people to near lifeless husks that basically need a ghetto life support set up consisting of internals full of poisonous gas and a supply of most likely dirty needles filled with extremely toxic substances to keep them functioning normally seems horrifically fitting.

Loonikus wrote:That doesn't happen on /vg/ and they have even more stuff to loot in space than we do. Just because people can go to space doesn't mean they will.

Besides, have fun without a jetpack and no new source of internals.

>Implying that powergaming on vg isn't instant-bannable

I'll try to answer as many posts as possible, I apologise for my absence from this thread.

Cheimon wrote:Sure, I think this sounds fun. Having different suit colours for different departments would be a lot of spriting, but it would be worth it to have a new race installed with all the new properties that could bring.

I'm slightly concerned about the whole 'setting people on fire' thing but I think that's more of a problem to do with fire setting alight every human it touches and less a problem with plasmamen specifically. For now I think they'd be a fun and potentially really entertaining new race, which could do everything as well as any other role (except security, command [in case of rev], and possibly a couple of other roles like miner and virologist, I don't know what their suits have for bio protection).

The igniting on touch with air could possibly be made to not ignite others. However I cannot give any definitive answers. Also their suits are EVA worthy and therefore have bio protection if I am not mistaken.

Lumbermancer wrote:Ok. Answer me this:

How do Plasmamen heal? You say liquid plasma rapidly heals them, is that all what heals them? How is it applied? Through space suit? Given the attitude of coders towards those, I doubt it.
Or are you saying the plasma vapors they breathe heal them as well?

Do they eat? If so, what and how? Not through the helmet that's for sure.

Should security execute all dangerous Plasmaman criminals on the spot? Clearly we can't perma or gulag them, since they have space suits.

And follow up question, what do you think would be the implications of potentially giving traitors a space suit from the get go?

Now consider all above, and ask yourself this:

What percentage of playerbase would pick plasmamen over humans and lizards that don't come with any cool mechanics? Would you be ok with Plasmamen being a majority on the station? Do you think it would change the feeling of the game if that was the case?

They can heal by patches, as they are applied regardless of having a space suit or not. Plasma from the dispenser in chemistry also heals, applied via patches. What they breathe has no healing property, it is just there to keep them living.

They do not eat, they are plasma skeletons.

I'll probably go about removing the spaceworthy nature of their suits. Considering the large number of implications it will cause as a lot of you have previously stated.


I feel the plasmamen will be overplayed, then drop to a very low medium. Similar to lizards.

CosmicScientist wrote:Why do they need a spacesuit? Surely an internals system can be done that isn't space worthy but keeps environmental gases from mixing with internal gases?

Why let them take off the suit immediately? If everyone believes they will cause grief or just win as an antag if they flip it on and off, why not give it several conscious clicks say on a right-click menu verb or alt+click maybe even using some sound effects to take it off?

Then there's also why they need to breathe plasma? If a griefing/antag clown/mime slips them and takes their suit off, why not have their atmosphere be something like nitrogen? That gas that's in the station because it helps inhibit fire? Have the suit release the stuff into the tile so it washes away any oxygen from the plasmaperson? You could even have the suit need to re-pressurise with N2 from their tank to do the same again since it's dumped its internal load otherwise you have a walking, burning, crying spessthing that should be using *scream every two seconds that interrupts their cries for help much like punching people does or maybe that's just me going too far.

With uniforms, I'm a little surprised there's ones already sprited even though security solved this issue with armbands. Whilst they aren't the biggest sprite on someone, that doesn't mean a new type couldn't be made if we ever have an issue with special uniforms in future, such as multiple bands of colour on the ankles, wrists and shoulders.

If plasma is how they heal or otherwise survive, how do you coax R&D and Robotics with Chemistry and Medbay to share the plasma hauls from mining? They aren't the same department and it's not hard for someone to go "Hey there's ten sheets in there, thanks mining!" without thinking of the other recipients. I guess if they're made of plasma you can donate the "organs" of some poor braindead or at best catatonic plasmaperson in the corridor if medbay didn't even know they had a reason to grab plasma from mining.

As a final idea, if you don't want /tg/station to become /plasmaperson/station, then slap a cap on, an age limit or some other boundary to gate access.

Then separate the files out, surely they can be put into sub categories? If they aren't fixed for ease of use then things, not just extremely unique and uninterchangeable sprites for extremely unique races, will be a hassle to get sorted, right?

A long one! Okay let me start from the top. The spacesuit functionality of their suit is most likely going to be removed. Probably replaced to something similar to a biosuit.

So you mean similar to a ninja having to initialise the suit, standing still for the duration and blah blah. I actually really like the idea.

The gas they breathe is more just a fluff thing, even if the suit is torn off them they won't vent any of it to the outside world. Having the need to re-pressurise is also really neat and I love the idea of that functionality.

Good news is they are already sprited, so no need for stupid armbands.

Plasma the liquid you get from chemistry heals you(Stable Plasma), alongside the plasma that can be mined. However normal healing chemicals work just as well.

Generally the view of capping access to things is taken pretty harshly by the community. An age gap similar to command roles would be viable. However as I said, I very much doubt people would approve.

Jacough wrote:

lmwevil wrote: Snip.

Deal with them the same way you'd deal with any other griefer, i.e. ban them. Lore wise, plasma may be invaluable in contributing to research and technology but it's also some pretty nasty shit that's extremely flammable and toxic. The ability to reduce people to near lifeless husks that basically need a ghetto life support set up consisting of internals full of poisonous gas and a supply of most likely dirty needles filled with extremely toxic substances to keep them functioning normally seems horrifically fitting.

While it fits lorewise, and has that kinda grimdark vibe. I can foresee a lot of issues with it. However I have noted that down.








I think I've answered everything!


TL;DR: Plasmapeople suits will not be spaceworthy, probably similar to biosuits. They will likely have a pressurisation and a de-pressurisation verb, of course the latter will ignite them. However it will take time before the suit can be fully removed, it'd be very obvious to people around that they are taking it off. Patches of normal healing meds works. MINING AND CHEMISTRY PLASMA BOTH HEAL THEM. Patches would be the normal way to apply. Also they are plasma skeletons, therefore DO NOT EAT!



Keep the feedback coming guys!

I'm pretty sure that gaseous plasma creates liquid plasma in the body of anything that breathes it, which is why aliens slash open plasma tanks to regen plasma faster, and how plasma gas gives you toxins damage'

so since they breathe plasma, I'm pretty sure they'd be getting a constant supply of plasma and hence healing

The stable plasma in the chemistry vendor isn't the same thing as actual plasma. Liquid plasma is much rarer and generally you only get it after mining comes back with a shipment if they bother giving chemistry any.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:which is why aliens slash open plasma tanks to regen plasma faster

Suddenly, a lit Zippo becomes an alien's greatest enemy.

newfren wrote:The stable plasma in the chemistry vendor isn't the same thing as actual plasma. Liquid plasma is much rarer and generally you only get it after mining comes back with a shipment if they bother giving chemistry any.

Chemistry starts with three bars of real plasma, xenobio with two.

It's only 2 bars of plasma in chemistry on box at least - point being that's hardly going to be healing however many plasma men are on the station for long, especially considering Chemistry actually uses that stuff in useful recipes and viros want it for their viruses.