How would you revive Clock Cult?

[bingusdingus]

I kinda miss that old rustbucket Ratvar, and was wondering what ideas people had if they were to bring Clock Cult back.
It can be improving them as they were pre removal, with the weird base defense mode, or come up with a new idea to bring them in line with other conversion antags like Blood Cult. I think the latter would be fun because you could have Cult vs Cult (maybe with a heretic thrown in too) rounds where they would fight over territory, or a mutual sacrifice target, but also staying hidden from normal crew. I would try to keep it similar to Blood Cult, but maybe focusing on playing more defensively, and setting up traps. Like a different flavor of cult that can stand on its own, or do war with each other.

[Itseasytosee2me]

Yeah it would for sure be funny to go full circle and make it a blood cult reskin again

[Jacquerel]

For the purposes of this exercise it may be worth knowing that we have a standing requirement for conversion antagonists to have any hope of being merged into the game

No more conversion antagonists unless your antagonist:
…is easily understandable by a convertee who is new to the antagonist, and especially new to the game
…somehow fits criteria 1 without just being revs

This imposes one of the following restrictions (not necessarily all at once):

- Don't make a conversion gamemode at all
- Have the cult leaders (who opted into the antagonist at roundstart) be significantly complex with much simpler convertees
- Converted players are transformed into mobs with a simple purpose and an immediately understandable, limited set of abilities
- All players regardless of whether they were converted or part of the mode from the game start have both simple aims and simple mechanics

[bingusdingus]

I wasn't aware of the conversion antag stuff when I made this thread. It does make sense though, just makes the problem a bit more complicated.

[Lacran]

God damn that is a tough one.

Honestly, have only round start clockies be actual cultists, that play like a blend of aductor and wizard, but actually get weaker the when it's time to fight. The rest get converted into special clockwork golems that specialise into a few roles.

Stuff like a builder, a ranged type, a tank, a brawler etc. super simple stuff with the builder being most important for the actual game mode.

Instead of having random portals everywhere that people lemming into, I'd just portal everyone in at once after a timer rounds out. Let everyone attack together.

[kacperpl123pl]

Hmm how abaut cult that is more power based its 6 starting members they can't convert the crew but instead
they got a ton more options to drain power form the station not only hacked apcs
(1 plant minicogs that drain power form vending machines
2 ability to convert stolen power cells into power at there home base
3 megacog placed in the power storage units
4 very risky ability to cog SM engine itself making it so its gives half of it power to Clock cult
5 mini power sinks places all over maints that crew gota deal with
) Also incresse the max cappacity of stored power
Add new power based ability
(1 Very costly abbility that summons a addtional cult member
2 low cost diffrent types of traps
3 medium cost steam musket that uses main power to shoot
4 other fun stuff that i cant think abaut now
)
and also i would balance this by having war for ark happen 25 minutes into the shift
so the coggers could not steal infinite power and scale up
(round only ends when coggers win)
if crew wins they get lot of diffrent rewards form killing the ark
and the round continues as normal due to fact that coggers did not converted crew itself and so it wont end up deadpop
this is just quick idea i just had

[kacperpl123pl]

Hmm how abaut cult that is more power based its 6 starting members they can't convert the crew but instead
they got a ton more options to drain power form the station not only hacked apcs
(1 plant minicogs that drain power form vending machines
2 ability to convert stolen power cells into power at there home base
3 megacog placed in the power storage units
4 very risky ability to cog SM engine itself making it so its gives half of it power to Clock cult
5 mini power sinks places all over maints that crew gota deal with
) Also incresse the max cappacity of stored power
Add new power based ability
(1 Very costly abbility that summons a addtional cult member
2 low cost diffrent types of traps
3 medium cost steam musket that uses main power to shoot
4 other fun stuff that i cant think abaut now
)
and also i would balance this by having war for ark happen 25 minutes into the shift
so the coggers could not steal infinite power and scale up
(round only ends when coggers win)
if crew wins they get lot of diffrent rewards form killing the ark
and the round continues as normal due to fact that coggers did not converted crew itself and so it wont end up deadpop
this is just quick idea i just had

[ekaterina]

Doesn't not being able to convert the crew defeat the point of a conversion antag?

[Itseasytosee2me]

For the purposes of this exercise it may be worth knowing that we have a standing requirement for conversion antagonists to have any hope of being merged into the game

No more conversion antagonists unless your antagonist:
…is easily understandable by a convertee who is new to the antagonist, and especially new to the game
…somehow fits criteria 1 without just being revs

This imposes one of the following restrictions (not necessarily all at once):

- Don't make a conversion gamemode at all
- Have the cult leaders (who opted into the antagonist at roundstart) be significantly complex with much simpler convertees
- Converted players are transformed into mobs with a simple purpose and an immediately understandable, limited set of abilities
- All players regardless of whether they were converted or part of the mode from the game start have both simple aims and simple mechanics

Would blood cult not meet these standards if it was proposed today?
And also, a new player can hardly play the game normally before they get their bearings, wouldn't ANY addition to the antagonist whatsoever count as not easily understandable (unless it was some sort of passive effect that did not require understanding?)

[Jacquerel]

Would blood cult not meet these standards if it was proposed today?
And also, a new player can hardly play the game normally before they get their bearings, wouldn't ANY addition to the antagonist whatsoever count as not easily understandable (unless it was some sort of passive effect that did not require understanding?)

The chances that we'd merge blood cult if it wasn't already in the game with its many many years of total reworks and iteration are extremely slim yes.
As for the latter, it's fine to assume some base level of competence. I think the real aim is "if you need to read a wiki (or a wiki page transplanted into the game) it's too much".

[norsvenska]

idk why but i was thinking about this while driving not too long ago and it went something like this:
ratvar is dead (you can find him on lavaland) but there's a possibility he can be brought back
the lavaland ruin is modified to spawn all the time when indecipheres is the mining zone, he does not spawn on icebox (cult can still roll, though. i'll get to that later)
it also has a bronze beacon thing set up, which cannot be destroyed at the moment
on the station, three crewmembers are the initial cultists, they get some magic or whatever
they must construct something similar to a powersink, which very slowly sends power to the bronze beacon
after some amount of power is siphoned (half of the required amount, perhaps), an automated announcement is made about a strange load on the powernet, along with a general area the powersink is in
after it collects all the power it needs, it changes shape, and anyone in the cult can interact with it to be teleported to the lavaland ruin
another announcement is made and the beacon on lavaland gets a gps signal
the cultists must defend the beacon while it sends its energy into ratvar, until all the power is used up
then a SUPER COOL ANIMATION where ratvar pulls himself out of the ground as he regains his power plays, but not a cinematic. it's just his corpse playing the animation so you have to be there to see it. why? it's cooler. ratvar then leaps up from lavaland and spawns at the edge of the station (round has ended at this point, cinematic would show his arrival) and does his thing destroying shit
on icebox, the cultists must defend a relay which is actually just the beacon but changed so its description is more of sending power off of the moon rather than receiving power from the station. no cool animation for planetary stations, though
that's basically the gameplay loop i thought up

[bingusdingus]

I actually had a similar idea about something involving the remains of ratvar but not nearly as in depth as yours, and I like your powersink idea a lot, but I can see the issue for ice box. I enjoy the idea of a dead cult getting revived by some cultists that hide in plain sight and integrate back in to NT after ratvar was killed, waiting for a good opportunity to resurrect their dead god and enact their revenge for killing him in the first place (Canonically Ratvar was killed by a BSA strike from an NT station). Very cool and eldritch vibes that are thematic with SS13 and not just ripping something else off. I want more antags that are actual facets of the SS13 universe like Syndicate and Blood Cults not just some already established idea or concept but in SS13.

[ekaterina]

I like norsvenska's idea

[nianjiilical]

as someone who wasnt around for og clock cult, i think neo clockcult could go one of two ways

option a: make it essentially a slightly tweaked alternative to blood cult. same mechanics for the most part, with a few differences (replace the items they can make at altars, change blood runes to little constructed altars, one or two spell replacements) so that learning one more or less onboards you for the other. this would also make doublecult (cult vs cult) possible which i think is a fun idea

option b: start from scratch entirely with the flavorings of old clock cult but simpler mechanics. probably the more likely one to happen

if you asked me to design the latter, id say the easiest way to try and fulfill the modern requirement of 'easy to understand' would be to lean super hard into the angle of being an item and equipment-focused team antag, with every item and building having a very clear and defined purpose

ideasguy document, all names/numbers pulled out of my ass:

► Show Spoiler

-cultists have two resources, brass and essence. brass is just straight up normal brass as it exists, essence is an invisible resource used to timegate the cult and restrict item production. all cultists slowly gain essence over time up to a small cap so that they can start production, just enough for the most basic structures
-cultists start with three abilities: commune (same as bloodcult), ratvar's gift (converts iron into brass at a bad ratio (4:1), and donate essence (gives essence to another cultist by touching them)
-brass can now be used to build brass sigils, brass altars and brass presses. anybody can build them, but only cultists can 'enhance' them with essence to essentially bring them to life (alt click and wait a few seconds)
-altars and presses upgrade as they're used; whenever someone spends essence on them or donates essence directly, they gain that many upgrade points, and with enough points they get better at their jobs
-no refund if security wrecks your shit and only one of each can exist in a large radius, so clock cult is incentivized to protect and nurture bases

-brass sigils are conversion runes, exactly the same mechanics as bloodcult conversion
-alternately, they could only need one cultist to activate, but take 10-15 seconds to convert
-only other difference is cultists get yellow soulstones and yellow/brass constructs (same wraith/artificer/juggernaut trio, just renamed/reflavored)

-brass altars are used to convert materials into brass, just insert materials and brass comes out
-by default they're better than using the ratvar's gift ability (iron and glass to brass at a 2:1 ratio)
-as they upgrade from being used, they eventually convert iron/glass at a 1:1 ratio and can turn plasteel, titanium and other rarer materials into 'holy brass'
-the brass press needs brass and holy brass to make items, and holy brass can build reinforced walls/airlocks/floors/other normal material things. cultists get a huge speed boost to building with brass/holy brass, but otherwise its just a very good material for building everything normal iron can

-the brass press is basically a fancy autolathe that accepts brass/holy brass/essence and produces clockcult items
-all of the powers and abilities of clock cult are in these items, and each should be very specialized and very obvious as to its role
-as the press upgrades it can build better things at cheaper costs, so protecting and building up a good press is important

ratvarian items:

cheap:
-integration cog: the cheapest item, slap it onto an apc for essence. whoever attaches it gets a small essence generation/cap boost (one cog per apc per cultist), and every other cultist gets a tiny gen/cap boost for each cog in existence. apcs can have up to 5 cogs, but after 2 they become more and more visually obvious (1 cog is only visible if you double examine, 5 cogs is basically just a clanking ratvar machine)
-brass tools: a swiss army knife that basically functions as a toolbelt that fits in bags, can't be used by non-cultists
-hateful manacles: handcuffs that are applied much faster by cultists, their version of shadow shackles
-ratvarian dagger: low tier melee weapon that, when alt clicking someone, stabs them in the throat and briefly mutes/stuns them long enough to cuff/remove headset, but has a lengthy cooldown. ratvar's fuu majin

moderate:
-ratvarian augmenter: clock cult's healing method, activate it in-hand to drain essence and be healed by the power of ratvar over time. if someone is dead/delimbed/in crit, using an augmenter on them fullheals them at the cost of breaking the augmenter (put it back in the press for a partial refund) and turning any super damaged organs/limbs into brass prosthetics, same as normal cybernetics but ratvarian
-clock undersuit: a jumpsuit/jumpskirt that provides an essence generation boost and slight armor values, ideal to hide under normal clothes
-eyes of ratvar: brass eyeballs you can shove directly into your skull. can be toggled between thermal, meson and sunglasses, but your eyes turn piss yellow ala bloodcult's glowing red eyes
-ancient spear: mid tier melee weapon that can be used inhand to fold it up and fit into your bag. when deployed has decent melee damage, great throw damage, and an extremely high chance to embed when thrown
-ratvarian bola: narsian bola but cooler
-cogscarab shells: used inhand like a positronic brain, allows ghosts to become cogscarabs. scarabs are small, weak support units that can ventcrawl, consume raw materials and tiny items, bring them back to the base to turn into brass, stab peoples ankles with little brass spikes, and self-destruct in a small explosion (think a pot/water bomb). notably scarabs do not count as cultists for using the sigil/summoning ratvar, they're purely supporters and nuisances

expensive:
-brass soldier modsuit: a brass modsuit. with all four parts deployed and active you basically get endgame tier armor with no slowdown, at the cost of slow essence drain and being extremely fucking loud (CLONG CLONG CLONG CLONG)
-brass battleaxe: ratvarian fireaxe. if you have an active modsuit it gains nodrop. suit + axe is the endgame Kill Everyone gear, basically
-brass cannon: a hand cannon that accepts holy brass and fires brass cannonballs. very unwieldy, needs two hands and manual reloading, but you get to shoot a cannon at security
-the ark beacon: a big, heavy machine that needs two hands to carry, and basically ratvar's version of the narsie summon rune. drop it on the floor, right click it to begin construction (alerts the whole crew), and after 45 second it becomes active. unlike narsie's rune its a 1x1 object that needs 8 adjacent cultists to activate, or maybe it needs enough essence idk

tl;dr cool artificer cult that uses powergamer items to stab everyone and become heavily augmented supersoldiers