/tg/Station 13

Is this a hot take? I dont even know at this point.

My reasoning:
We're not an erp server. Rule 8 exists, so its not like these books can even be interacted with beyond throwing them at people or reading them over comms, which is going to get you slam dunked into space at the very least. Additionally, there is some genuinely HORRID shit in there. Like, 'we need to remove this because its actually disgustingly hardcore/pedophelic/other illegal things' kind of stuff.

The idea of mass-wiping books doesnt settle well with me, much like the idea of wiping the artworks seeming unfair. But I dont see the need to have these types of works in game with how TG works and is adminned. I think the archives still exist? Or maybe just dont have them spawn round start? Ideas would be nice.

Theres also the problem of porn books being mis-categorized into the other sections but that can be tackled another day.
Anyways please discuss and be normal please thanks.

Curator who cares too much about stocking the shelves here, I'm for this. My more specific suggestions:

Don't delete anything from the archives. There's a lot of crap in there, sure, but that's still a lot of player contributions from years of gameplay. Leaving the archives active means downstreams can more easily access or purge it if they want to. This also means if someone must have smut for a gimmick, they can still print off a copy.

Rename the "Adult" shelves to "Restricted" instead. This ensures environmental storytelling like Tramstation's secluded reading nook still works; this name also allows people to shelve a lot more "appropriate" stuff on them (bomb manuals? Syndie references? really bad poetry? just smut again? the choice is yours). They should probably start out completely empty.

I'm going to assume it's still fine for players to acquire copies of "Adult" books since they're opt-in when it comes to accessing their content, unlike wandering into someone else's intense maints ERP, but it couldn't hurt to know whether or not the admin team cares about Rule 8 here.

I suppose someone could make the argument of like. Finding a book in a strictly adult sectioned area in the library is much less intrusive than some underaged loser reading it over comms for the billionth time because they think they're funny. I personally have no idea how the book archive even works though it seems really shitty to use which is probably why so few people play curator for the library

I agree with this, tg really isn’t the place for this kind of stuff. I personally think the books themselves need trimmed down and maybe a slight wipe. Though COwlbear makes a good point.

Where should Woody's Got Wood go, if not the adult section of the library?

Relevant: viewtopic.php?f=85&t=29218

Lots of interesting points brought up in above, including by people who were around when ERP was banned.
Headmin term at the time thought the adult section could stay because it was "funny".

Throwback to when I was playing AI and a mime started spamming a lewd Ai fanfiction from the library on the cameras that originated from the adult section of the library. Funnily enough I don't blame the book for this, I blame the mime for being a shitter

Why is this in the Ideas section? The last thread on this topic was in Policy Discussion, since it revolves around Rule 8.

This thread needs to be moved to the much more visible Policy Discussion sub-forum so that all interested parties can actually see it, rather than the seldom viewed Ideas forum.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:08 am Why is this in the Ideas section? The last thread on this topic was in Policy Discussion, since it revolves around Rule 8.

This thread needs to be moved to the much more visible Policy Discussion sub-forum so that all interested parties can actually see it, rather than the seldom viewed Ideas forum.

Because this isn't a policy thread. It's a code suggestion about removing the adult section from the bookshelves, not the books themselves.

Thunder11 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:23 am

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:08 am Why is this in the Ideas section? The last thread on this topic was in Policy Discussion, since it revolves around Rule 8.

This thread needs to be moved to the much more visible Policy Discussion sub-forum so that all interested parties can actually see it, rather than the seldom viewed Ideas forum.

Because this isn't a policy thread. It's a code suggestion about removing the adult section from the bookshelves, not the books themselves.

Are you saying that the thread is about strictly removing, at a code level, the "Adult" book-cases with books from the Adult section from spawning in the Library, and not about removing the Adult category from the Archives, and/or purging all Adult books from the codebase, and/or preventing new uploads of Adult books?

If so, I can agree with that, but if it's about the latter, then this needs to be moved into Policy Discussion, because it would involve going against the headmin decision in the other thread linked earlier by Melbert.

18+ server, books aren’t ERP, reading them over comms is banned.

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:10 am Relevant: viewtopic.php?f=85&t=29218

Lots of interesting points brought up in above, including by people who were around when ERP was banned.
Headmin term at the time thought the adult section could stay because it was "funny".

A lot of good counterpoints are made here, (along with a lot of points that are.... less than good,) but im still not convinced if the overall judgement was allowing it simply because "its funny." If anything that just makes me want to hear what the current headmins think about it, considering you made that post 2 years ago and the problems you cited then are still happening, (ie, the illegal and bad shit.)

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:33 pm 18+ server, books aren’t ERP, reading them over comms is banned.

Correct, books arent erp but they are still a form of erotic content, which tg definitely doesnt focus on. We are an 18+ server yeah. Im not breaking out pitchforks and screaming 'SANITIZE ALL REFERENCE OF BREASTS THEY WILL POISON THE MINDS OF OUR CHILDREN!' But straight up, literal porn seems to be a bit much in my opinion.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:32 am

Thunder11 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:23 am

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:08 am Why is this in the Ideas section? The last thread on this topic was in Policy Discussion, since it revolves around Rule 8.

This thread needs to be moved to the much more visible Policy Discussion sub-forum so that all interested parties can actually see it, rather than the seldom viewed Ideas forum.

Because this isn't a policy thread. It's a code suggestion about removing the adult section from the bookshelves, not the books themselves.

Are you saying that the thread is about strictly removing, at a code level, the "Adult" book-cases with books from the Adult section from spawning in the Library, and not about removing the Adult category from the Archives, and/or purging all Adult books from the codebase, and/or preventing new uploads of Adult books?

If so, I can agree with that, but if it's about the latter, then this needs to be moved into Policy Discussion, because it would involve going against the headmin decision in the other thread linked earlier by Melbert.

Honestly im just bad at using the fourms because im never here and thought ideas would be the proper place for it. Considering how Melbert's thread went im fine with having a smaller sample size at first before moving it to the policy section.

I continue to stand by what I said earlier. I would also like to suggest the following, in keeping with the spirit of the thread's current forum:

Give Curators better in-game curation tools. If I'm playing this job it's at least in part because I want to play with the book code, I would love to be able to make the job easier for myself and others like me. Let us re-title or re-categorize things. Maybe allow the curator to mark a book for potential database deletion if it's bad-but-not-ahelpable-bad, no admins are around, or it's otherwise just no longer suitable for the archives, like a duplicate copy or something the curator is resubmitting to fix formatting issues. I suggest marking for deletion since I believe the actual deed should require outside intervention so some griefer can't just fling the entire archives into the toilet. All of the above can be logged to make sure the curator in question is held accountable.

If something is miscategorized smut, and it's not so vile it's burning through the floor, simply let me move it to the Adult section of the archives so it's properly in containment and everyone can go about their day.

Revamp bookbag/shelf interactions a little. Currently bookbags have kind of a low capacity for a specialized container and only really work with flat surfaces. I'd love to be able to grab everything from a targeted shelf at once, or dump the contents of the bookbag onto a shelf. I'd also like to be able to change the order of books on a shelf without having to pull them out one at a time due to a single misclick (it's helpful for things like multi-part books or books that are responses to others). Maybe a way to hook a bookbag up to a library printer so printed books automatically get collected by the bag? This ties into the thread because if we end up with an entirely unpopulated shelf at roundstart, be it due to it once being a dedicated Adult section or anything else, it'd be nice to be able to quickly stock it.

Can shelves be renamed with a pen? Seems like a useful addition if not; if someone absolutely, positively must have a smut section then this gives them that power. I still think renaming Adult shelves to Restricted at roundstart is a good idea even if retitling is possible, mind you.

AyamePup wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:25 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:33 pm 18+ server, books aren’t ERP, reading them over comms is banned.

Correct, books arent erp but they are still a form of erotic content, which tg definitely doesnt focus on. We are an 18+ server yeah. Im not breaking out pitchforks and screaming 'SANITIZE ALL REFERENCE OF BREASTS THEY WILL POISON THE MINDS OF OUR CHILDREN!' But straight up, literal porn seems to be a bit much in my opinion.

Well, my opinion is that this is an over-sanitization. Rule 8 wasn't intended to remove ALL sexuality in any context from the servers, it was intended to stop ERPing and blatant shit like people reading WGW on the common channel. Time and time again people have told me I won't get bwoinked for like, making a dick joke once in a while, or blowing a kiss to a coworker in-game or something.

Smut, which is 100% opt-in and only found in the least used section of the station, the Library usually after you print it (And let be real here, you knew what "Lizard gangbangs 6" was before you cracked it open), falls within the bounds and scopes of the spirit of rule 8, in my opinion.

Miscategorized or malicious smut works are already against the rules, as well.

You can take my life but you can never take my lusty xeno maid 1 of 1 originalTM.
I think applying rule 8 to just, horny books you have to open to interact with is stupid. it's for people who are rping rape, sex, or harassing people. it's not for "there is booba in my library".
You can make that argument, but it is silly to use rule 8 for it. Just say what you want to say instead.

Admins can soft delete books if there's anything nasty, tho all the mins who try that burn out. I think it's correlated idk they're all based too maybe that's the trouble.
I think we need a player driven system or something to get something IN in the first place, but that's been a brainpoison of mine for a while.

Addendum: There's a common misconception that admins can actually delete books from the library. They can't. What they can do is hide books from display, which is referred to in some tools as "deletion".
Only people who can actually wipe a book are the guys with db access, and that tends to only happen when someone uploads like, child porn or truly heinous shit. We're never gonna expose actually removing entries, level of potential shittyness is too high.