/tg/Station 13

Would like to see some thought on raising the minimum threat floor to like 10, so you still have very calm shifts but there isn't a guaranteed green anymore. [Possibly LRP exclusive.]

bit of a bandaid solution but we need less uneventful rounds so I'm in

yes but 15-30 because yea

kieth4 wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 11:22 am Would like to see some thought on raising the minimum threat floor to like 10, so you still have very calm shifts but there isn't a guaranteed green anymore. [Possibly LRP exclusive.]

I think the better solution would be to scale threat with pop but that might be code and not config

I like this idea, but the one I prefer is to remove the greenshift alert and have the game always tell people it's at least a low threat round even if it's not.

People lose their goddamn minds on greenshifts and it removes the paranoia that's inherent in the game. Either we need to raise the threat floor or remove peoples' ability to know whether or not it's a greenshift.

Before giving my opinion I'll just point out that I'm pretty sure this is not a config option at present and thus is not something headmins can change themself.

Hard opposed. The majority of my best rounds are on single digit threat levels/pre-dynamic greenshifts/secret greenshifts. Greenshifts open the doors to a ton of opportunities for roleplay/construction projects/gimmicks/etc that require large groups people to commit to something for extended times. Most rounds its challenging to get more than 2 or 3 people to commit to a big project due to how short the round is expected to be and the high risk of everything devolving into chaos if its revs/cult/nukies. I understand that some people do not enjoy slower more chill rounds that green shifts provide but the vast majority of rounds are short and action packed already which a decent chunk of players would be happy to see a break from, from time to time, given how extremely rare true greenshifts are I don't see why there should be any pursuit for removing them entirely.

I don't think greenshifts should be impossible, but even just capping the threat limit at 15 I don't think solves our problem. I've spoken about this before, but if RNGesus gives you just traitors and heretics, the majority of the time nothing is going to happen. The fact that a vast majority of players given these roles will likely do nothing antagonistic unless given the opportunity by a bigger, more direct threat is a design flaw. Either need to empower lower-skill players with those antagonist roles without making the sweats overpowered, or we need to find a way to ensure a bigger threat will come later to give traitors/heretics an opportunity to get their job done without security breathing down their neck.

Of course, I do agree however that too many shifts recently are ultimately uneventful. I very much wish to see it change.

People absolutely need to have greenshifts that they don't know are greenshifts and that never add threat so that people can accidentally make their own problems and be shitters

green shifts should be as common as wizards should be and each greenshift should be heads or tails whether its announced or not

As is my obligation I implore for a fundamental rethinking of what dynamic is and how it should work.

Yeah sure whatever..

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 10:59 pm As is my obligation I implore for a fundamental rethinking of what dynamic is and how it should work.

What do you propose instead?

Capsandi wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 10:07 pm green shifts should be as common as wizards should be and each greenshift should be heads or tails whether its announced or not

Ooh strong disagree. As a Terry admin no-one likes green shifts

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 12:28 am

Capsandi wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 10:07 pm green shifts should be as common as wizards should be and each greenshift should be heads or tails whether its announced or not

Ooh strong disagree. As a Terry admin no-one likes green shifts

NamelessFairy wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:14 pm Before giving my opinion I'll just point out that I'm pretty sure this is not a config option at present and thus is not something headmins can change themself.

Hard opposed. The majority of my best rounds are on single digit threat levels/pre-dynamic greenshifts/secret greenshifts. Greenshifts open the doors to a ton of opportunities for roleplay/construction projects/gimmicks/etc that require large groups people to commit to something for extended times. Most rounds its challenging to get more than 2 or 3 people to commit to a big project due to how short the round is expected to be and the high risk of everything devolving into chaos if its revs/cult/nukies. I understand that some people do not enjoy slower more chill rounds that green shifts provide but the vast majority of rounds are short and action packed already which a decent chunk of players would be happy to see a break from, from time to time, given how extremely rare true greenshifts are I don't see why there should be any pursuit for removing them entirely.

The duality of men...

NamelessFairy wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:14 pm I understand that some people do not enjoy slower more chill rounds that green shifts provide

Greenshifts are usually some of the most chaotic and unbearable rounds I ever have. I haven't taken to feeling tempted to leave when I find out because "eww no antags boring", but because I know that I'm going to get griefed into the high heavens by bored shitters.

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 12:28 am

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 10:59 pm As is my obligation I implore for a fundamental rethinking of what dynamic is and how it should work.

What do you propose instead?

Well, truth be told, I don't really understand the virtue of dynamic in comparison to secret with the possible exception of "unique antag interaction."

The front on which it fails is twofold

Mechanically

"Threat" is a budget for antags, right? It's a given number that dictates about how many bad guys we will see at the start of the round, and about how many bad guys will appear later, and its random. This is the crux of dynamic. But really, what is the advantage here? Is it really a benifit to the game to have variety in the amount of badguys that the crew faces on a given round? On paper sure, variety = good, but in practice does someone enjoy a round with 15 threat where they wouldn't enjoy a greenshift? A black star orbit is perhaps an interesting game state, but the more antagonists we have and the higher the threat goes the more the game becomes generally unplayable. The game can be balanced best when we have a ratio of antags to crew to be balanced around, with different antagonists bringing the variety in type of threat.
Instead of making gamemodes that contain of a thought out number of antags that work well together, dynamic generates a random number and gives us a heaping load of kitchen sink antags. While it is a mechanically more impressive system, I don't see the real advantage.

Thematically/Narratively

The events we play in space station 13 are supposed to be "that one shift where everything goes wrong" and is not supposed to represent a normal day aboard a nanotrasen station. This is why every round ends with survivors escaping in an emergency shuttle, or everyone in the station getting wiped out by a nuke/doomsday device/elder god.
Dynamic fails to capture the same fiction that secret did, as now it feels like any given round is just a mismash of whatever. When threat is too low, we so often get scenarios that end up with no reason to call the shuttle, which is antithetical to the gameplay loop. This is especially clear when antags get wiped/captured and there isn't even enough threat left over to cause any threatening random events. Conversely, playing a high threat shift where it just so happens that every enemy of nanotrasen decides that now is the time to attack is pretty fiction breaking. When I'm playing and I here over the radio that there is a revolution and heretics and traitors and malfunctioning AIs I just feel so out of it.

Going back to secret, but making tweaks to existing gamemodes and adding new ones seems like a valid option in my eyes.

Otherwise if we were going to rethink dynamic, I would want to be sure to hit three goals:
1. Make the amount and type of antagonists in any given round easy to balance around.
2. Make sure that the direct actions of antagonists have a really good chance of getting the shuttle called on any given round.
3. Make sure that on any given round people feel like they have the opportunity to roleplay, do their job, and explore the content of the game.

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 12:28 am

Capsandi wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 10:07 pm green shifts should be as common as wizards should be and each greenshift should be heads or tails whether its announced or not

Ooh strong disagree. As a Terry admin no-one likes green shifts

No i mean the glass cannon antag should be a pretty rare sight and greenshifts should be too.

As for secret, it wouldn't help bringing it back because the symptoms reported are due to a considerable amount of antag rolls going to usually ineffectual (progression)antags.
If secret decided a round was going to be traitors and or heretics it would be the same as dynamic rolling traitors and heretics currently. They wont cause a shuttle call on their own because they have no answer to batons meaning anything they buy before 45 minutes is just painting a big target on their ass. The issue with dynamic is that half of our antags are ineffective at being a threat and the other half are existential threats which require all crew focus on suppression. When you split those apart you get greenshifts from prog antags and war shifts from cult/ops/revs. When mixed its the same thing, except for some progression antags being dwarfed by revs/war ect
Ling is the only solo antag which can hold its own against a moderately prepared crew member before 55 minutes(med pop).
Its the antags which are failing dynamic.

NamelessFairy wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:14 pm Before giving my opinion I'll just point out that I'm pretty sure this is not a config option at present and thus is not something headmins can change themself.

Hard opposed. The majority of my best rounds are on single digit threat levels/pre-dynamic greenshifts/secret greenshifts. Greenshifts open the doors to a ton of opportunities for roleplay/construction projects/gimmicks/etc that require large groups people to commit to something for extended times. Most rounds its challenging to get more than 2 or 3 people to commit to a big project due to how short the round is expected to be and the high risk of everything devolving into chaos if its revs/cult/nukies. I understand that some people do not enjoy slower more chill rounds that green shifts provide but the vast majority of rounds are short and action packed already which a decent chunk of players would be happy to see a break from, from time to time, given how extremely rare true greenshifts are I don't see why there should be any pursuit for removing them entirely.

I 100% agree with you, but the way that the playerbase (specifically people on Sybil) act when there's no conflict means we can't have nice things. People will make their own idiot conflict one way or another, including by playfighting or otherwise acting like children. I have seen entire rounds of 40-50 people devolve into a fucking daycare as soon as the text says there's no threat to the station.

Capsandi wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 3:30 am When mixed its the same thing, except for some progression antags being dwarfed by revs/war ect

Well ya see, this is one of my major critiques of the dynamic gamemode. Some antags don't mix well, or don't mix well in high quantities, or don't mix well in low quantities. I would perfer a lighter touch in the design.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 2:17 amWell, truth be told, I don't really understand the virtue of dynamic in comparison to secret with the possible exception of "unique antag interaction."

Easy, the shift doesn't end in 5-20 minutes when all the antags die, so you can actually accomplish things beyond initial setups/starter job content.

Let me tell you how much I miss finishing the supermatter engine only for the shift to end.... and then we get a new shift.... so I set up the sm again, and oh wait, the shift ends again.... so I set up the sm again.... and the shift ends.

I don't, and neither does anyone else. That's why even the most mediocre dynamic greenshift is better than whatever the best old static ruleset was.

Let me condense my argument from earlier because I'm angry and I want to feed it into something.

We can't have greenshift because people don't want greenshift so we get 20 minute shuttle calls and people killing each other over nothing because they're bored.

I know that people play the game for different reasons but I can't help but think that's just objectively the wrong way to play.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:45 am Let me condense my argument from earlier because I'm angry and I want to feed it into something.

We can't have greenshift because people don't want greenshift so we get 20 minute shuttle calls and people killing each other over nothing because they're bored.

I know that people play the game for different reasons but I can't help but think that's just objectively the wrong way to play.

I like the occasional greenshift.

You're right that other people spaz out over them, but that doesn't mean everyone hates them.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:00 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:45 am Let me condense my argument from earlier because I'm angry and I want to feed it into something.

We can't have greenshift because people don't want greenshift so we get 20 minute shuttle calls and people killing each other over nothing because they're bored.

I know that people play the game for different reasons but I can't help but think that's just objectively the wrong way to play.

I like the occasional greenshift.

You're right that other people spaz out over them, but that doesn't mean everyone hates them.

Is it worth keeping them for the like 4 people who like them?

kieth4 wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:53 am

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:00 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:45 am Let me condense my argument from earlier because I'm angry and I want to feed it into something.

We can't have greenshift because people don't want greenshift so we get 20 minute shuttle calls and people killing each other over nothing because they're bored.

I know that people play the game for different reasons but I can't help but think that's just objectively the wrong way to play.

I like the occasional greenshift.

You're right that other people spaz out over them, but that doesn't mean everyone hates them.

Is it worth keeping them for the like 4 people who like them?

I mean, how often do they even happen? Like others have said, I think they're fine if they're rare, like wizard level rare.

Raising it would just be a bandaid from my (tbh limited) recent experience its because its not spending the threat it has, The big rounds dont feel as big because its not spending its threat. The small rounds still feel small and boring because it has no threat. Your getting more of the little and less of the big. Thats not including any antagonists who die so early (or goes pure stealth) that it doesn't matter. People call the shuttle early because antagonists are the things that drastically changes the round. A gimmick is still fun with antagonists, admins can easily push greenshifts to be more exciting (if they are even on the server/ not just afking to wait for tickets). Alot of people play the game specifically because antagonists add so much to a round that without them it can feel very empty, Engineers arent fixing a sabotaged SM they just sit around. Theres only so many times you can make a super SM or a rage cage or something similar before it gets boring. Antags or the creative work of admins or passionate players that spice it up and not everyone is creative all the time.

Where are the people getting the impression that the rounds are rolling too low exactly? Is there any stats to back up the claim that dynamic isn't spending the points it has?

I think almost every round I've played for months has had antagonists in it roundstart, it's just all slowburn antagonists until midround. They either die, or they go off at around that point but typically something else has showed up to take over the station's attention, like dragon or blob. Alternatively, it's the big name team antags like nukies, cult or revs when the pop is high enough.

Are you sure you're all not just assuming dynamic isn't injecting enough antagonists because none of the ones we have roundstart can really start doing anything for about 30 minutes?

the main issue isnt that there is too little threat and just that we arent spending enough of it

when it rolls traitors you usually only see 3 or so roundstart traitors and often one of those gets caught early and another is a player too new to do enough to cause a shuttle call. this leaves 1/60 players as someone capable of moving the round to a natural end so we are left with numerous doctors and engis and security staff lazing around waiting for this one person to create job content for all of them.

we need a code solution rather than a policy one

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 3:45 am

NamelessFairy wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:14 pm Before giving my opinion I'll just point out that I'm pretty sure this is not a config option at present and thus is not something headmins can change themself.

Hard opposed. The majority of my best rounds are on single digit threat levels/pre-dynamic greenshifts/secret greenshifts. Greenshifts open the doors to a ton of opportunities for roleplay/construction projects/gimmicks/etc that require large groups people to commit to something for extended times. Most rounds its challenging to get more than 2 or 3 people to commit to a big project due to how short the round is expected to be and the high risk of everything devolving into chaos if its revs/cult/nukies. I understand that some people do not enjoy slower more chill rounds that green shifts provide but the vast majority of rounds are short and action packed already which a decent chunk of players would be happy to see a break from, from time to time, given how extremely rare true greenshifts are I don't see why there should be any pursuit for removing them entirely.

I 100% agree with you, but the way that the playerbase (specifically people on Sybil) act when there's no conflict means we can't have nice things. People will make their own idiot conflict one way or another, including by playfighting or otherwise acting like children. I have seen entire rounds of 40-50 people devolve into a fucking daycare as soon as the text says there's no threat to the station.

Think you’re wrong about the reason this happens. I don’t think it’s because people see the greenshift text — if you recall, it didn’t always exist yet this still happened. I think it’s simply due to the fact no action is happening and people are growing antsy, and making action themselves since antags aren’t providing it, rather than a reaction to an announcement.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 6:11 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 3:45 am

NamelessFairy wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:14 pm Before giving my opinion I'll just point out that I'm pretty sure this is not a config option at present and thus is not something headmins can change themself.

Hard opposed. The majority of my best rounds are on single digit threat levels/pre-dynamic greenshifts/secret greenshifts. Greenshifts open the doors to a ton of opportunities for roleplay/construction projects/gimmicks/etc that require large groups people to commit to something for extended times. Most rounds its challenging to get more than 2 or 3 people to commit to a big project due to how short the round is expected to be and the high risk of everything devolving into chaos if its revs/cult/nukies. I understand that some people do not enjoy slower more chill rounds that green shifts provide but the vast majority of rounds are short and action packed already which a decent chunk of players would be happy to see a break from, from time to time, given how extremely rare true greenshifts are I don't see why there should be any pursuit for removing them entirely.

I 100% agree with you, but the way that the playerbase (specifically people on Sybil) act when there's no conflict means we can't have nice things. People will make their own idiot conflict one way or another, including by playfighting or otherwise acting like children. I have seen entire rounds of 40-50 people devolve into a fucking daycare as soon as the text says there's no threat to the station.

Think you’re wrong about the reason this happens. I don’t think it’s because people see the greenshift text — if you recall, it didn’t always exist yet this still happened. I think it’s simply due to the fact no action is happening and people are growing antsy, and making action themselves since antags aren’t providing it, rather than a reaction to an announcement.

What would your suggestion be to prevent this from happening, then? I would rather people engage with the round on honest terms long enough to realize there isn't anything happening than I would people try to call the shuttle at 20 minutes because there's no antags to valid.

Greenshifts shouldn't be announced. Back in dynamic "Extended" was always so much worse than "secret extended" tbh

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 12:28 am

Capsandi wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 10:07 pm green shifts should be as common as wizards should be and each greenshift should be heads or tails whether its announced or not

Ooh strong disagree. As a Terry admin no-one likes green shifts

run events son it's in your blood

Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 8:24 pm

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 12:28 am

Capsandi wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 10:07 pm green shifts should be as common as wizards should be and each greenshift should be heads or tails whether its announced or not

Ooh strong disagree. As a Terry admin no-one likes green shifts

run events son it's in your blood

I try! No one can run 'em like you though

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 2:30 pm Are you sure you're all not just assuming dynamic isn't injecting enough antagonists because none of the ones we have roundstart can really start doing anything for about 30 minutes?

That’s probably what’s happening to a large degree, but progtot is out of the headmins’ hands, so all that’s left is to shovel more threat to fix the issue via config.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:15 pm What would your suggestion be to prevent this from happening, then? I would rather people engage with the round on honest terms long enough to realize there isn't anything happening than I would people try to call the shuttle at 20 minutes because there's no antags to valid.

Honestly? To remove the replock. I think that’d fix it. But realistically? I think it’s just how the vast majority of people on LRP play. They want there to be action and excitement, they don’t wanna just walk around and play Habbo Hotel. If the round doesn’t give that to them, they’ll either suicide or create it themselves.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:15 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 6:11 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 3:45 am

NamelessFairy wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:14 pm Before giving my opinion I'll just point out that I'm pretty sure this is not a config option at present and thus is not something headmins can change themself.

Hard opposed. The majority of my best rounds are on single digit threat levels/pre-dynamic greenshifts/secret greenshifts. Greenshifts open the doors to a ton of opportunities for roleplay/construction projects/gimmicks/etc that require large groups people to commit to something for extended times. Most rounds its challenging to get more than 2 or 3 people to commit to a big project due to how short the round is expected to be and the high risk of everything devolving into chaos if its revs/cult/nukies. I understand that some people do not enjoy slower more chill rounds that green shifts provide but the vast majority of rounds are short and action packed already which a decent chunk of players would be happy to see a break from, from time to time, given how extremely rare true greenshifts are I don't see why there should be any pursuit for removing them entirely.

I 100% agree with you, but the way that the playerbase (specifically people on Sybil) act when there's no conflict means we can't have nice things. People will make their own idiot conflict one way or another, including by playfighting or otherwise acting like children. I have seen entire rounds of 40-50 people devolve into a fucking daycare as soon as the text says there's no threat to the station.

Think you’re wrong about the reason this happens. I don’t think it’s because people see the greenshift text — if you recall, it didn’t always exist yet this still happened. I think it’s simply due to the fact no action is happening and people are growing antsy, and making action themselves since antags aren’t providing it, rather than a reaction to an announcement.

What would your suggestion be to prevent this from happening, then? I would rather people engage with the round on honest terms long enough to realize there isn't anything happening than I would people try to call the shuttle at 20 minutes because there's no antags to valid.

Code wise, having a way to get syndicate tech like emags and make uplinks as the station objective. It might be a good place to sandbox weapons in space, so people can see what different weapons or shit does.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:19 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:15 pm What would your suggestion be to prevent this from happening, then? I would rather people engage with the round on honest terms long enough to realize there isn't anything happening than I would people try to call the shuttle at 20 minutes because there's no antags to valid.

Honestly? To remove the replock. I think that’d fix it. But realistically? I think it’s just how the vast majority of people on LRP play. They want there to be action and excitement, they don’t wanna just walk around and play Habbo Hotel. If the round doesn’t give that to them, they’ll either suicide or create it themselves.

I don't feel like we should be encouraging that kind of gameplay. SS13 isn't a "social deduction game", it's not a combat simulator, and it's not a daycare. It's a roleplaying game first and foremost.

vect0r wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 10:28 pm Code wise, having a way to get syndicate tech like emags and make uplinks as the station objective. It might be a good place to sandbox weapons in space, so people can see what different weapons or shit does.

No offense, but this sounds like actual fucking hell and would just result in the most insane tickets I've ever read in my life.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 10:50 pm I don't feel like we should be encouraging that kind of gameplay. SS13 isn't a "social deduction game", it's not a combat simulator, and it's not a daycare. It's a roleplaying game first and foremost.

Whether you encourage it or not is sort of a moot point, most people don’t enjoy the game when there are no antags or threats to make the round juicy.

Given that’s just how players prefer the game, I don’t see the harm in adjusting the config. Saying the game is supposed to be X Y and Z when most players don’t play it for X Y and Z calls into question whether you’re right in saying the game is supposed to be X Y and Z.

vect0r wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 10:28 pm Code wise, having a way to get syndicate tech like emags and make uplinks as the station objective. It might be a good place to sandbox weapons in space, so people can see what different weapons or shit does.

No offense, but this sounds like actual fucking hell and would just result in the most insane tickets I've ever read in my life.
[/quote]

IDK, just throwing stuff out I would love to see
I agree it is an insane idea that would be funny for like a a shift, but it's a fucking horrible idea in general.
I just meant some stuff that we could unlock that's normally for antags, but I doubt that THIS idea is good.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 10:50 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:19 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:15 pm What would your suggestion be to prevent this from happening, then? I would rather people engage with the round on honest terms long enough to realize there isn't anything happening than I would people try to call the shuttle at 20 minutes because there's no antags to valid.

Honestly? To remove the replock. I think that’d fix it. But realistically? I think it’s just how the vast majority of people on LRP play. They want there to be action and excitement, they don’t wanna just walk around and play Habbo Hotel. If the round doesn’t give that to them, they’ll either suicide or create it themselves.

I don't feel like we should be encouraging that kind of gameplay. SS13 isn't a "social deduction game", it's not a combat simulator, and it's not a daycare. It's a roleplaying game first and foremost.

SS13 IS a social deduction game, it's also a combat simulator, and it's also a roleplaying game. It's whatever you make it, be it zyb (shit poor example) that made it a combat sim, or people who just wanna chill and chat, or people who love doing insane circuit/atmos things and impressing the entire server. All I am trying to say is SS13 doesn't nicely fit under one label like "Roleplaying game" or "Social deduction game".

I personally see the game as a crisis roleplay sim. The game as a straight-forward, life-aboard-a-space-station-where-everything-is-good isn't that fun by itself.

fixing injured people is what medical staff sign up for, and a lot of the roleplay that a doctor will do during the shift is talking to their patients
fixing broken things is what engineering staff sign up for, and a lot of the roleplay that an engineer will do during the shift stems from the tense situations of fixing a supermatter before it blows up and kills everyone in the room or rushing to medbay to plug up a hole as people are getting spaced
hunting the criminals that cause these problems and foiling their plans is what creates the roleplay that sec will go through during the shift

without the sources of tension that threats provide all of these jobs have very little to actually do. in the ideal greenshift world that we dont live in and could never exist the only thing left for the people playing for these interactions would be endless 24/7 bar rp

tension is the most important part of the roleplay in this game and without it most people completely lose intrest.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 6:11 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 3:45 am

NamelessFairy wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:14 pm Before giving my opinion I'll just point out that I'm pretty sure this is not a config option at present and thus is not something headmins can change themself.

Hard opposed. The majority of my best rounds are on single digit threat levels/pre-dynamic greenshifts/secret greenshifts. Greenshifts open the doors to a ton of opportunities for roleplay/construction projects/gimmicks/etc that require large groups people to commit to something for extended times. Most rounds its challenging to get more than 2 or 3 people to commit to a big project due to how short the round is expected to be and the high risk of everything devolving into chaos if its revs/cult/nukies. I understand that some people do not enjoy slower more chill rounds that green shifts provide but the vast majority of rounds are short and action packed already which a decent chunk of players would be happy to see a break from, from time to time, given how extremely rare true greenshifts are I don't see why there should be any pursuit for removing them entirely.

I 100% agree with you, but the way that the playerbase (specifically people on Sybil) act when there's no conflict means we can't have nice things. People will make their own idiot conflict one way or another, including by playfighting or otherwise acting like children. I have seen entire rounds of 40-50 people devolve into a fucking daycare as soon as the text says there's no threat to the station.

Think you’re wrong about the reason this happens. I don’t think it’s because people see the greenshift text — if you recall, it didn’t always exist yet this still happened. I think it’s simply due to the fact no action is happening and people are growing antsy, and making action themselves since antags aren’t providing it, rather than a reaction to an announcement.

Nah, Vekter's right. While the 'Hey there's no threats' does a great job of getting some people to start doing projects, it also leads to people who go 'Oh boy, that means I can fuck with people as much as I want, and they can't just Valid me because they know for a fact I'm not an antag'.

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 4:16 am fixing injured people is what medical staff sign up for, and a lot of the roleplay that a doctor will do during the shift is talking to their patients
fixing broken things is what engineering staff sign up for, and a lot of the roleplay that an engineer will do during the shift stems from the tense situations of fixing a supermatter before it blows up and kills everyone in the room or rushing to medbay to plug up a hole as people are getting spaced
hunting the criminals that cause these problems and foiling their plans is what creates the roleplay that sec will go through during the shift

without the sources of tension that threats provide all of these jobs have very little to actually do. in the ideal greenshift world that we dont live in and could never exist the only thing left for the people playing for these interactions would be endless 24/7 bar rp

tension is the most important part of the roleplay in this game and without it most people completely lose intrest.

This is a good point and not something I had really considered before. I think if we look into raising general threat and eliminating green shifts, this is probably the best reason to do so.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 7:15 am Nah, Vekter's right. While the 'Hey there's no threats' does a great job of getting some people to start doing projects, it also leads to people who go 'Oh boy, that means I can fuck with people as much as I want, and they can't just Valid me because they know for a fact I'm not an antag'.

I did get confirmation from the headmins that people starting Looney Tunes fights over literally nothing in public places can be slapped for NRP and I fully intend to exercise that right. If people want to fight one another, they can do a Fight Club thing or do it in a boxing ring.

Personally I think greenshifts (on LRP) should only happen by admin intervention.

The game is meant to have conflict there are at least 2 entire departments that heavily rely on it, being security and medical.

The allure of a greenshift giving you time to do a project is very much neutered by the people who are looking at every avenue possible to reroll the round. These rounds always end poopy too because once the hsuttle is called no one wants to work on anything either so its just like "ok next!".

Even Greenies on MRP sound like a snoozefest if you didnt roll the right job, and its not like you can just moonlight the people in the other jobs because no one rolled antag.

green-shifts cant function properly without all jobs having something to do on green shifts

We should steal the chefs robot food mini-game and give it to other departments. Mainly Security and Medical. Security officers, medical doctors, and psychologists would be grateful to beat up training simulations from beyond, or heal visiting injured folks physical and mental wounds.

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 11:06 am green-shifts cant function properly without all jobs having something to do on green shifts

We should steal the chefs robot food mini-game and give it to other departments. Mainly Security and Medical. Security officers, medical doctors, and psychologists would be grateful to beat up training simulations from beyond, or heal visiting injured folks physical and mental wounds.

No offense but I hate this idea. Copy-pasting a mechanic from a few jobs to all of them is a boring solution to a boring problem. People already don't often do it for bartending and cooking.

I think it’s honestly a great idea! I think at least for medical they could train on hurt people.

Remove greenshift just because im so fucking sick of captains/hos calling shuttle over it no matter how many people ask to recall.

Either greenshifts are so bad that all they do is waste the 25 minutes for us to end the round and get a new one going

Or they are bad because it gives captains / hos the right to call shuttle and end everyones round without getting banned

I dont care which evil is reality its stupid.

This is less of an "everyone hates greenshift" thing and more of a mixture of "the greenshift haters are the loudest" and "ghosting/SSDing at roundstart might net you an antag roll suspicion, therefore I need to die to valid conflict if I want out of this shitty round" mentality. That being said, it's LRP, and there's plenty that dislike green shift. An easy fix for this would be to have greenshifts be announced /before/ roundstart (and for late joiners too) so people know not to play OR to change their job so they don't get stuck with something like medical in a shift with no threat. And to also allow ghosting on green shifts the same way ghosting is allowed on war ops as long as you don't take antag ghost roles.

I would like higher threat by default, but greenshifts still have their place even on LRP.

TypicalRig wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 10:07 pm This is less of an "everyone hates greenshift" thing and more of a mixture of "the greenshift haters are the loudest" and "ghosting/SSDing at roundstart might net you an antag roll suspicion, therefore I need to die to valid conflict if I want out of this shitty round" mentality. That being said, it's LRP, and there's plenty that dislike green shift. An easy fix for this would be to have greenshifts be announced /before/ roundstart (and for late joiners too) so people know not to play OR to change their job so they don't get stuck with something like medical in a shift with no threat. And to also allow ghosting on green shifts the same way ghosting is allowed on war ops as long as you don't take antag ghost roles.

I would like higher threat by default, but greenshifts still have their place even on LRP.

Second this it would be cool atleast from a game play perspective to know if the round I'm going to commit 1+ of my time to was going to have something interesting happen.

+1 greenshifts are not normal rounds and therefore should not be treated like normal rounds, there is no competitiveness in them so why hide the fact that they are a greenshift beforehand