/tg/Station 13

In this PR I added a few changes to cargo contraband and how it is handled. I want to know how folk are finding the new changes, and the impact it is having on the round. It doesn't have to be evaluating if everything is worth buying, because I'm okay with some crates just being junk purchases. This is especially true of the emag purchases as well.

I would like to know what folk are using, what they're buying often or not at all, and what might be worth introducing or if you have any ideas for contraband. What should already be in the import section that isn't. And especially, what have you been using some of the weirder crates for?

For instance: I've been having a lot of fun sending dumpsters to people who annoy me. And I send MEAT crates to the chefs because they may appreciate it.

What about you?

Please let us buy crates of random maint loot, and also abandoned crates. If you want to follow up on the random nature of stuff like medical crates/russian surp crates, maybe let people buy "tool" crates that just have a huge slew of random tools, with smaller and smaller chances of having nice things like the combo tools from research, the red "experimental" tools, and a really small chance of having an alien tool or something. I only bought dumpster once and it just had a random naked body in it, but if you wanted to add some spicy appeal to it you could have it spawn a "job" corpse like how some of the ones in space can have cargo corpses, or the ones in gateway can have engi/sci/med corpses. Maybe even a funny 1% chance of rare corpses like the legions can have on lavaland

What the fuck is the "Regal Condor"
What is so powerful about it and why is it so gated?

What if you removed the book, and could buy the gun and magazines whole from an emagged cargo console

Longestarmlonglaw wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:40 am What the fuck is the "Regal Condor"
What is so powerful about it and why is it so gated?

What if you removed the book, and could buy the gun and magazines whole from an emagged cargo console

The whole point is it is rare as fuck.

could use funnier imports considering the only reason people get them is for le gunz

Cargo needs unique job content that can only be obtained through cargo. Imported seeds for unique plants would be neat. Shouldn't Lizard and Mothic food crates be under imported as well?

I really miss being able to get free sleepypens from the emagged console, though. The two new crates don't have enough oomph for their price when you can just get a WT + ammo crate instead for the same emagging AND it's almost the same amount of money for TWO guns and a shitton of ammo.

not really feedback but i have to ask while we're here: why did you make the MEAT do so much damage?

saprasam wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:07 am could use funnier imports considering the only reason people get them is for le gunz

You can help this by making suggestions. That's why I made the thread, so people can throw me something my way when I eventually do a followup. I can't read your mind, you know. I don't know what you find funny. :U

BrianBackslide wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:33 pm Cargo needs unique job content that can only be obtained through cargo. Imported seeds for unique plants would be neat. Shouldn't Lizard and Mothic food crates be under imported as well?

I do like the idea of unique plant seeds, that's kind of neat. And while yes, the species food crates would be under imports, I actually do prefer chefs being able to order them in via the department console. The way the department console works at the moment, you get everything in the category. Even hidden stuff. I don't know if that was intentional or not, but as a result I'd prefer chefs still having that content rather than worry too much about consistency issues.

I really miss being able to get free sleepypens from the emagged console, though. The two new crates don't have enough oomph for their price when you can just get a WT + ammo crate instead for the same emagging AND it's almost the same amount of money for TWO guns and a shitton of ammo.

In my personal experience I've found the grenade crate to be pretty useful. The disguise crate is maybe a little weak, and could probably use some more interesting items to help make up the difference. But I think people would value the free agent card...if they knew it protected you from AI tracking.

c4g wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:38 pm not really feedback but i have to ask while we're here: why did you make the MEAT do so much damage?

funny

the WT-550 is epic, but kinda wish it was just not emag, but contraband (i love crew ballistics, FUCK lasers man) ballistics lovers rise up

With the laser buff I could genuinely make an argument for bringing WTs back; If I saw a WT and a laser on the ground I'd have to actually think about which one to take if I could only take one.

I am not going to budge on the WT change folks.

Can we get the ability to obtain nuclear operative gear from emagging cargo consoles?

Longestarmlonglaw wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:31 pm Can we get the ability to obtain nuclear operative gear from emagging cargo consoles?

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/76771

Relevant PR based on some feedback here.

I like the PR!

...Probably a "no shit" kind of comment because I like just about any economy content in-game and am starved for economy content that I myself didn't try implementing which is how I got trapped in my current "2 refactors in a movie" mess I'm in, yeah no it seems like a solid PR.

I will say, cargo and it's economy content has an issue I'm trying to really gauge how to go about fixing, that being with the tried and true problem: You want something from cargo, and if there's no cargo or cargo isn't there, your options are either "give up" or "break into cargo and do cargo for them". It's a rare problem that used to be more prevalent across the game's design. Science wasn't done? Hop the desk and buy some nodes/scan some items. Need a chemical? Break a window and make some mutagen/chemicals/whatever. Nuke Ops? Break into the HOP office and hand out AA like candy. Most of these issues have been solved through a better design for the department where the game doesn't come to a standstill if a department is AWOL, but cargo is kind of an exception after all this time. Buying and selling requires not only a cargo tech, but also a cargo tech who will actually get you your items in a reasonable amount of time.

At the end of the day, we can add a ton of economy content and gate it through cargo, but without a cargo tech the progress can grind to a halt, or otherwise you'll piss off all but the most NRP cargo players in the playerbase. An idea I had, and I'm not yet sold on it being a GOOD idea, is adding a new kind of simplebot, or behavior onto mulebots, where if a cargo shuttle arrives with new purchased crates, the simple/mule bot will unload the shuttle automatically. Maybe they drop it off in a mailroom...? The trick here is finding a good middleground between "Cargo Techs must move every single crate and to move a crate will result in DEATH" and "the cargo tech is an outdated construct, and must be replaced with the PURITY OF STEEL", which is why I'd wonder about making it an upgraded in the middle of the round.

Anyway this was a long ramble and I'm not addressing anyone in particular, but I like cargo content and this was a nice even spread of cool new stuff

Arcanemusic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 6:06 am I like the PR!

...Probably a "no shit" kind of comment because I like just about any economy content in-game and am starved for economy content that I myself didn't try implementing which is how I got trapped in my current "2 refactors in a movie" mess I'm in, yeah no it seems like a solid PR.

I will say, cargo and it's economy content has an issue I'm trying to really gauge how to go about fixing, that being with the tried and true problem: You want something from cargo, and if there's no cargo or cargo isn't there, your options are either "give up" or "break into cargo and do cargo for them". It's a rare problem that used to be more prevalent across the game's design. Science wasn't done? Hop the desk and buy some nodes/scan some items. Need a chemical? Break a window and make some mutagen/chemicals/whatever. Nuke Ops? Break into the HOP office and hand out AA like candy. Most of these issues have been solved through a better design for the department where the game doesn't come to a standstill if a department is AWOL, but cargo is kind of an exception after all this time. Buying and selling requires not only a cargo tech, but also a cargo tech who will actually get you your items in a reasonable amount of time.

At the end of the day, we can add a ton of economy content and gate it through cargo, but without a cargo tech the progress can grind to a halt, or otherwise you'll piss off all but the most NRP cargo players in the playerbase. An idea I had, and I'm not yet sold on it being a GOOD idea, is adding a new kind of simplebot, or behavior onto mulebots, where if a cargo shuttle arrives with new purchased crates, the simple/mule bot will unload the shuttle automatically. Maybe they drop it off in a mailroom...? The trick here is finding a good middleground between "Cargo Techs must move every single crate and to move a crate will result in DEATH" and "the cargo tech is an outdated construct, and must be replaced with the PURITY OF STEEL", which is why I'd wonder about making it an upgraded in the middle of the round.

Anyway this was a long ramble and I'm not addressing anyone in particular, but I like cargo content and this was a nice even spread of cool new stuff

As someone who loves cargo tech, I'm not exactly satisfied with where cargo is. I'm that rare cargo player that actually tries to get people their orders in a timely fashion (as well as PDA messaging them that it's being mailed to their mail chute). Cargo is in a strange place because a lot of people don't play cargo (so cargo is often completely empty), or they do play cargo but essentially use it like assistant+, where you can order guns and/or make shit in the lathe and you have a home base. Very few play it like a service job, which is annoying. It'd be like if botanist only made bluespace tomatoes and deathnettles, every, single, round. (and botany was the only place to get food) For those rounds where I'm not a cargo tech, I'll often see cargo flat out abandoned or used as a glorified assistant department where department orders vanish into thin air and people just waltz in like it's a room with all access.

Often times as a cargo tech, I'll go to the kitchen to grab food, and I'll come back to see the ORM unwrenched (make moving the ORM require welding + wrench I fucking BEG YOU CODERS), bounty cubes expiring, the shuttle full of department orders, and the QM and a couple of techies blowing all the budget on emergency crates for mosins via the black market drop pod console. It's funny once and a while, but it's been happening almost every round in cargo over the course of the summer and it just isn't funny anymore on MRP at least.

It doesn't help that cargo is often the best place to get equipment, be it in the lathe or the techfab. The issue is that both machines are in cargo itself, and even on MRP a shocking amount of the playerbase is incapable of using actual words to communicate shit. As a cargo tech you either move the autolathe out into the lobby (and sometimes the techfab as well), or you will get tided, even on manuel. Even if you move the lathe out in the lobby those players who operate only on muscle memory will still tide into cargo or follow someone in just to look around confused when the lathe isn't where it normally is (it was right next to the door they ran through to get into cargo....)

I do wish bounty cubes had their speedy delivery bonus flat-out removed. All it does is force you to have to babysit cargo. Heaven forbid that people are grinding bounty cubes, you will never get to leave cargo. I've literally had an hour and a half rounds where I never left cargo outside of grabbing a toolbox and some materials at the start of the round because people are grinding bounty cubes and I'm the only cargo tech. Bounty cubes expire in five minutes, the shuttle takes two minutes for a round trip, bounty cubes are stupidly bulky for some fucking reason, meaning you can carry five maximum most of the time, which means running back and forth. Heaven forbid you also have department orders as well. I've had shifts where I've not talked to a single person because I have to keep cargo moving. I love cargo but those kinds of situations fucking suck.

If cargo isn't doing their job, then it makes a super noticeable impact on the station, on the other hand, if they are diligently doing their job, delivering mail, doing department orders, creating a nice budget, then it doesn't really mean much. All it means is that cargo can panic order twenty gun crates if the situation is really FUBAR enough, or order an expensive shuttle (which most captains completely forget about)

Most other jobs either have enough people in them that you can fuck off for a bit (engineering, science, medical, botany) are able to do enough stuff in bulk to fuck off for a bit (chemistry, cook, kind of bartender), are minor enough that it doesn't matter if you don't really do your job (janitor, bartender, clown, mime, chaplain, curator, lawyer, psychologist), cargo tech often requires you to stay in your department the whole shift.

I really went on a tangent there. Sorry.

I WAS PROMISED A TATTOO GUN BY ARMHULEN MONTHS AGO WHERE IS IT

Why are you yelling at me I'm not frog, I'm cat QwQ

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:46 am Why are you yelling at me I'm not frog, I'm cat QwQ

GET THE FUCK OFF OF DINING ROOM TABLE.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:19 pm snip

I play techie infrequently and don't have much difficulty keeping up with orders and bounties. That is, of course, because there's nothing worth spending money on. It's all guns or access locked crates, so why bother, right? At worst, I might not be able to futz with the exploration drones, but I often run out of things to do even on highpop. As a botanist/chef main, I take extreme notice when cargo isn't doing their job as my expenses require me to do bounties/departmental orders.

I would also point out that botany is even worse about leaving your department. Even if there's another botanist, the chances of them actually taking care of your plants is 0%, and we both know that the moment you take your eyes off one of those plants, it'll immediately die.

BrianBackslide wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:40 am

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:19 pm snip

I play techie infrequently and don't have much difficulty keeping up with orders and bounties. That is, of course, because there's nothing worth spending money on. It's all guns or access locked crates, so why bother, right? At worst, I might not be able to futz with the exploration drones, but I often run out of things to do even on highpop. As a botanist/chef main, I take extreme notice when cargo isn't doing their job as my expenses require me to do bounties/departmental orders.

I would also point out that botany is even worse about leaving your department. Even if there's another botanist, the chances of them actually taking care of your plants is 0%, and we both know that the moment you take your eyes off one of those plants, it'll immediately die.

MAYBE YOU ARE IN THE THREAD TO TALK ABOUT FINDING THINGS TO SPEND YOUR CARGO CREDITS ON

HELLO CONGRATS YOU'VE WON AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS

BRING OUT MARIACHI BAND!

But... I did earlier in the thread! Unique job content for other departments for one! Kinda like how botany has rainbow bunch and hedge seeds but like, better.

Maybe medbay can order crates of random uncraftable trekchems at exorbitant rates, or the chef can order an EZ Bake Oven machine board that acts like how old microwaves worked with meat and cakes. A sunflower costume because I think it'd be cute af. Strange seed single packs for botanists at a discount over the vendor for going through cargo. Hell, make vendor contraband importable through cargo, it never made sense that the vending machines would even have a contraband section.

I don't know enough of most jobs to avoid suggesting something that wouldn't be incredibly OP or require a ton of coding work.

I want more cargo weapons, i want to gun cargo

Regrettably, there is no way removed content deemed a negative for gameplay would get a pass by just re-adding it via cargo.

The seeds and costume would need some sprites to add in, and my own abilities can only go so far. Some things are easier than others and I can only beseech help from spriters...probably not at all because they got other stuff they want to do. Strange seeds are actually already in cargo as exotic seeds, though only two per box.

Iunno I like vendor contraband personally. I might even look into that next...

From the sounds of it, a mariachi band should somehow be redeemable. In my tiny brain I'm imagining robot vendors following around whatever tech ordered it, blasting tunes. Could be emagged to do bad shit, etc. Or just costumes, all in one kit.

Necro the abandoned crates cost so much and I've yet to get anything spicy from them so I am here to flame you >:(

(Also contraband crates getting a cost increase AND a capacity DECREASE is insanely painful. I used to get like 8 items for 800, now it's 5 for 4000. Even with the epic one in a gorillian odds of getting a funny makarov I feel like you could either buff the contents considerably or bring the price down so we can spam rolls more often, at least.)

On an unrelated note, I am currently thinking of even more dumb crate bullshit we could buy... I'd love to be able to get the old MK.2 Swat suits that I THINK still exist in code? It'd be a hellaciously sick upgrade for sec even if they did cost like 15-20k for one or two suits. Other things could be the rapid service fabricator that exists in Hell Factory, maybe 1911 imports for exhorbiant prices, even if they are emag only... Hmm.....

Maybe buffing the MK 1 swat suits so that they don't have Fucking Slowdown since they aren't even spaceproof anymore.

If you want to be delightfully devilish, you could make a player buyable jukebox, maybe even importing the expanded songlist that they have on Shiptest.

Ooh! Purchasable fireproofing/pressure proofing/speed potions a la xenobio/atmos! Redundancy is good!

Maybe add on an expansion/token system for the Black Market LTSRB, that lets you reroll/refresh the contents of the black market uplink.