/tg/Station 13

Definitions:
MRP: Medium Roleplay
LRP: Low Roleplay
NRP: No Roleplay
NURP: No Roleplay but I said it funnier
NURP'D UP: Server we'ved switched to the temporary NURP ruleset.
NURPEDNESS: The general environment and feeling of a NURP'D UP server.

I think we offer two kinds of servers that have good levels of roleplay, but one of the servers is slipping on a downward trajectory. It's the LRP server (actually I think we're doing better as of recent, but it's still a good test to run regardless). I thought it might be enlightening and fun to do a test! Test is simple: Publish a quick NRP ruleset where no roleplay is allowed and the game is purely mechanical, slap it on one of the servers that isn't seeing a lot of players right now, and give it a month or two so people can build an idea of what NRP actually feels like. What I think will happen: NURP server will pull a lot of players at the start, and a lot of them, no offense, are probably players who take more from a round on LRP than they give. My prediction is that by the end of the testing period, the NURP'D UP server will be dead, because there aren't enough players who want to deal with the lack of roleplay stakes, the ghosting when getting arrested, the greytiding, lack of communication, and generally, NURPEDNESS of it all.

Or maybe it goes a different way! But I think it'll be enlightening either way. I chose 1-2 months for the time period because I think it'll take time for people to make conclusions about an entire ruleset. That being said, when I did the same kind of experiment during my headmin term with security borgs, it did NOT take that amount of time for everyone to agree they're horrible. That was what, a week? Two weeks? Lol.

I don't really care much for such a ruleset but if you're going to do it I think it might be more trouble than it's worth to disallow roleplay and actually enforce that. Wouldn't it just be easier to not require roleplay?

click on spacemen until horizontal. Sounds fun as an event! Could do it on event hall.

Rules that are changed on this NURP server:

1. Don't be a dick - Far more relaxed escalation, anything short of random murders. See escalation policy. Greytiding clause is gone, antag rolling clause is gone, radio spam as long as it doesn't lag the server is allowed.
2. Do not use information gained outside of in-character means. - Any kind of character IC relationship is allowed, not that the relationship is built on roleplay, but you can team up with other players for in game advantage.
3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel. - This entire rule is almost gone. Name yourself anything, OOC in IC is kosher. Only thing that remains is IC in OOC, which is cheating.
5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart. - This entire rule is gone
7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being broken. - Only applies to OOC rules (whichever remain)
12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game - This entire rule is gone.
Escalation Policy - Have a reason, and have the reason fit the beating you give.
Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest - This entire rule is gone.

kawoppi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:32 pm I don't really care much for such a ruleset but if you're going to do it I think it might be more trouble than it's worth to disallow roleplay and actually enforce that. Wouldn't it just be easier to not require roleplay?

You can roleplay at any level you want on the NURP server. Just don't expect anyone else to be doing it.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm Rules that are changed on this NURP server:

1. Don't be a dick - Far more relaxed escalation, anything short of random murders. See escalation policy. Greytiding clause is gone, antag rolling clause is gone, radio spam as long as it doesn't lag the server is allowed.
2. Do not use information gained outside of in-character means. - Any kind of character IC relationship is allowed, not that the relationship is built on roleplay, but you can team up with other players for in game advantage.
3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel. - This entire rule is gone. Name yourself anything, IC in OOC and OOC in IC are kosher.
5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart. - This entire rule is gone
7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being broken. - Only applies to OOC rules (whichever remain)
12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game - This entire rule is gone.
Escalation Policy - Have a reason, and have the reason fit the beating you give.
Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest - This entire rule is gone.

OOC: ANTAG ONIST IS A TRAITOR LYNCH HE

who will admin it

Fikou wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:46 pm who will admin it

Our NRP Admins. Naw I'm sure if it can pull players it'll pull some admins who like watching the ant farm.

Archie700 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:46 pm

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm Rules that are changed on this NURP server:

1. Don't be a dick - Far more relaxed escalation, anything short of random murders. See escalation policy. Greytiding clause is gone, antag rolling clause is gone, radio spam as long as it doesn't lag the server is allowed.
2. Do not use information gained outside of in-character means. - Any kind of character IC relationship is allowed, not that the relationship is built on roleplay, but you can team up with other players for in game advantage.
3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel. - This entire rule is gone. Name yourself anything, IC in OOC and OOC in IC are kosher.
5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart. - This entire rule is gone
7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being broken. - Only applies to OOC rules (whichever remain)
12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game - This entire rule is gone.
Escalation Policy - Have a reason, and have the reason fit the beating you give.
Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest - This entire rule is gone.

OOC: ANTAG ONIST IS A TRAITOR LYNCH HE

I can't tell if I should amend the idea to not include IC in OOC in more of a cheating than lack of roleplay sense, or whether this is intended and you can just start arguing in OOC. For the goal of properly making an NRP environment and not just a strawman server, Let's say IC in OOC is cheaty and disallow it. OOC in IC is fine.

I've gotten at least one admin say they'd admin it already. I mean, heck, it's easier than adminning any other server.

It will end up like Merchant station. Once the NRP horde rises enough, they'll make them convince each other to join their hip new NRP server, realise it's shit, then consider RPing, quit ss13, or become a ban evader. We don't need to do this for them. They'll do it to themselves.

Turbonurd is pessimistically correct, but mainly because /tg/ admins lack the required range of humor varying from gross to occasionally dark to deal with people who like to engage with NURP or HURP without cascading enormous amount of drama. Just built different.

Repurpose bagil for this

I will admin it because, frankly, it will be funny to slap IC issue on nearly everything

The arguments I always have against this are lessons taken from stuff like League of Legends URF mode.

NRP/mechanic-focused gameplay is something that players binge, but this makes the regular game mode unappealing by comparison. It can make the rest of tgstation seem unfun by comparison, while also being incredibly unfun itself when the novelty of every character existing outside of the game's universe and setting wears off.

Similarly, any reduced ruleset server will still require general administrative oversight as others have mentioned. I guarantee you admins will be bored after a few days, let alone anything on timescales of weeks.

If you put it on event hall I'll admin this shit, my sacred home (although perhaps not for long)

We can call it Kurp

I would sort of say this is what Campbell has become with its lack of admins though. People just kind of doing whatever usually short of murders because of the long round time.

im always up for trying new wacky things as long as theres an explicit understanding that its a test so people wont get mad if it gets canned in a few weeks

also i agree with timbers re: the urf philosophy but still it might be fun

Sounds interesting.

I like the idea in theory, stuffing all turboshitters into their own server where they can kill each other until their last remaining dopamine receptor burns out.

The issue I see here is in the practicality: The players that would benefit the most from being taught that lesson, probably won't bite? Like, they're comfy in Terry or wherever, they can wreak havoc as much as they want all within the rules, and they're having a blast. I don't think they'd go to an server with 5 people just to get their ass handed to them by an equally coked-out, sweaty jackass.
Unless, you have other reasons to believe that this kind of server will attract the crowd that it seeks?


With feverish regards
-BONERMASTER

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:20 pm I like the idea in theory, stuffing all turboshitters into their own server where they can kill each other until their last remaining dopamine receptor burns out.

The issue I see here is in the practicality: The players that would benefit the most from being taught that lesson, probably won't bite? Like, they're comfy in Terry or wherever, they can wreak havoc as much as they want all within the rules, and they're having a blast. I don't think they'd go to an server with 5 people just to get their ass handed to them by an equally coked-out, sweaty jackass.
Unless, you have other reasons to believe that this kind of server will attract the crowd that it seeks?


With feverish regards
-BONERMASTER

This is actually exactly the point this makes, and I'd like to be proven wrong via the test

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:37 pm The arguments I always have against this are lessons taken from stuff like League of Legends URF mode.

NRP/mechanic-focused gameplay is something that players binge, but this makes the regular game mode unappealing by comparison. It can make the rest of tgstation seem unfun by comparison, while also being incredibly unfun itself when the novelty of every character existing outside of the game's universe and setting wears off.

Similarly, any reduced ruleset server will still require general administrative oversight as others have mentioned. I guarantee you admins will be bored after a few days, let alone anything on timescales of weeks.

This is a very good argument for not doing it, that frankly I didn't think existed but I would argue that this isn't an URF situation. Why? Because URF attracts and desensitizes all players, because URF is fun. If my theory is right, this will not be fun. This will be sweaty, pulling the sweatiest of players, and if we lose anyone, it won't be anyone who actually contributes to /tg/ as an enjoyable server.
Merchantstation didn't pull good people, it pulled everyone who should be scattered to the winds. And luckily the majority of them were which is pretty buh buh based

Neat idea, does all policy come from Player's Club saying "nuh-uh"?

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm Rules that are changed on this NURP server:

1. Don't be a dick - Far more relaxed escalation, anything short of random murders. See escalation policy. Greytiding clause is gone, antag rolling clause is gone, radio spam as long as it doesn't lag the server is allowed.
2. Do not use information gained outside of in-character means. - Any kind of character IC relationship is allowed, not that the relationship is built on roleplay, but you can team up with other players for in game advantage.
3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel. - This entire rule is almost gone. Name yourself anything, OOC in IC is kosher. Only thing that remains is IC in OOC, which is cheating.
5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart. - This entire rule is gone
7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being broken. - Only applies to OOC rules (whichever remain)
12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game - This entire rule is gone.
Escalation Policy - Have a reason, and have the reason fit the beating you give.
Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest - This entire rule is gone.

I like what you're thinking, but I feel like you can get away with removing more of the rules, IMO.

Chadley wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:45 am Neat idea, does all policy come from Player's Club saying "nuh-uh"?

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm Rules that are changed on this NURP server:

1. Don't be a dick - Far more relaxed escalation, anything short of random murders. See escalation policy. Greytiding clause is gone, antag rolling clause is gone, radio spam as long as it doesn't lag the server is allowed.
2. Do not use information gained outside of in-character means. - Any kind of character IC relationship is allowed, not that the relationship is built on roleplay, but you can team up with other players for in game advantage.
3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel. - This entire rule is almost gone. Name yourself anything, OOC in IC is kosher. Only thing that remains is IC in OOC, which is cheating.
5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart. - This entire rule is gone
7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being broken. - Only applies to OOC rules (whichever remain)
12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game - This entire rule is gone.
Escalation Policy - Have a reason, and have the reason fit the beating you give.
Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest - This entire rule is gone.

I like what you're thinking, but I feel like you can get away with removing more of the rules, IMO.

Go ahead lad, let's see what else you're cutting

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:55 am

Chadley wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:45 am Neat idea, does all policy come from Player's Club saying "nuh-uh"?

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm Rules that are changed on this NURP server:

1. Don't be a dick - Far more relaxed escalation, anything short of random murders. See escalation policy. Greytiding clause is gone, antag rolling clause is gone, radio spam as long as it doesn't lag the server is allowed.
2. Do not use information gained outside of in-character means. - Any kind of character IC relationship is allowed, not that the relationship is built on roleplay, but you can team up with other players for in game advantage.
3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel. - This entire rule is almost gone. Name yourself anything, OOC in IC is kosher. Only thing that remains is IC in OOC, which is cheating.
5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart. - This entire rule is gone
7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being broken. - Only applies to OOC rules (whichever remain)
12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game - This entire rule is gone.
Escalation Policy - Have a reason, and have the reason fit the beating you give.
Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest - This entire rule is gone.

I like what you're thinking, but I feel like you can get away with removing more of the rules, IMO.

Go ahead lad, let's see what else you're cutting

Remove Rule 4. Caring about whether you're someone who should be against Nanotrasen or not sounds like roleplay to me.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:55 am

Chadley wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:45 am Neat idea, does all policy come from Player's Club saying "nuh-uh"?

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm Rules that are changed on this NURP server:

[reasonable ruleset]

I like what you're thinking, but I feel like you can get away with removing more of the rules, IMO.

Go ahead lad, let's see what else you're cutting

My monkey brain will prefer if rules that no longer exist aren't there. I started removing rules and then I realized I turned a list into a rule.

1. DarkRP RDM Rules - as long as they fight back, they're valid to crit.
2. Do not use information gained outside of in-character means. - Any kind of character IC relationship is allowed, not that the relationship is built on roleplay, but you can team up with other players for in game advantage.
3. Do not say in character (IC) things in the out of character (OOC) chat channel. - This entire rule is almost gone. Name yourself anything, OOC in IC is kosher. Only thing that remains is IC in OOC, which is cheating.
5. Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart. - This entire rule is gone
7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being broken. - Only applies to OOC rules (whichever remain)
12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game - This entire rule is gone.
Escalation Policy - Have a reason, and have the reason fit the beating you give.
Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest - This entire rule is gone.

1. Don't be a big enough dick that admins have to get involved.
1.1 Don't kill someone without a reason. Don't round remove someone without a decent reason.
1.2 Don't do anything that might lag/crash the server.
2. Don't use information pertaining to the round that you obtained out of game.
2.1 Established OOC relationships between players are fine, but don't metagame the current round. Being bros with someone between shifts is fine, having them DM you they're a cultist isn't.
3. Don't IC in OOC.
3.1 OOC in IC is fine.
3.2 Naming yourself after real life figures/fictional characters means admins are allowed to mess with you proportional to how unoriginal your name is. No names that actually break rule 8/11.
4. Antagonists can do whatever they want, except for IC in OOC and creepy/bigoted shit.
4.1 If you're part of a team antagonist, don't actively hinder your teammates.
5. Try not to roll a head/AI role if you're going to leave immediately.
5.1 As above, at least try to work with your teammates on team antags.
6. Ingame admin rulings are final.
6.1 Even if the admin is responding to all of your ahelps with the "IC issue" button.
6.2 Especially if it's a skill issue.
7. Don't toe the line with OOC rules (ick ock, creepy/bigoted shit).
8. No ERP.
9. 18+ only.
10. If you get owned, deal with it.
11. No bigotry unless MSO says it's okay.
12. Roleplay is for nerds.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:07 am

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:20 pm I like the idea in theory, stuffing all turboshitters into their own server where they can kill each other until their last remaining dopamine receptor burns out.

The issue I see here is in the practicality: The players that would benefit the most from being taught that lesson, probably won't bite? Like, they're comfy in Terry or wherever, they can wreak havoc as much as they want all within the rules, and they're having a blast. I don't think they'd go to an server with 5 people just to get their ass handed to them by an equally coked-out, sweaty jackass.
Unless, you have other reasons to believe that this kind of server will attract the crowd that it seeks?


With feverish regards
-BONERMASTER

This is actually exactly the point this makes, and I'd like to be proven wrong via the test

Yeah I'm thinking this would be like asking the sweats in cod to play in the ranked lobbies instead pubstomping in quickplay. There might be a few interested but most would rather just get the easy wins.

BeeSting12 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:28 am

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:07 am

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:20 pm I like the idea in theory, stuffing all turboshitters into their own server where they can kill each other until their last remaining dopamine receptor burns out.

The issue I see here is in the practicality: The players that would benefit the most from being taught that lesson, probably won't bite? Like, they're comfy in Terry or wherever, they can wreak havoc as much as they want all within the rules, and they're having a blast. I don't think they'd go to an server with 5 people just to get their ass handed to them by an equally coked-out, sweaty jackass.
Unless, you have other reasons to believe that this kind of server will attract the crowd that it seeks?


With feverish regards
-BONERMASTER

This is actually exactly the point this makes, and I'd like to be proven wrong via the test

Yeah I'm thinking this would be like asking the sweats in cod to play in the ranked lobbies instead pubstomping in quickplay. There might be a few interested but most would rather just get the easy wins.

Which is why I think it's different than URF.

Horrible idea, let's do this on event hall!

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm Rules that are changed on this NURP server:

1. Don't be a dick - Far more relaxed escalation, anything short of random murders. See escalation policy. Greytiding clause is gone, antag rolling clause is gone, radio spam as long as it doesn't lag the server is allowed.

*unzips pants

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm7. If you regularly come close to breaking the rules without actually breaking them, it will be treated as the rules being. Only applies to OOC rules (whichever remain)

*drools

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm 12. This is a sandbox roleplaying game - This entire rule is gone.

*begins to breathe heavily

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:43 pm Escalation Policy - Have a reason, and have the reason fit the beating you give.
Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest - This entire rule is gone

Usually I'd say this forum is for less shitposty posts but honestly considering the poster, and the policy being discussed, please don't report sinfuls post because I'm going to let it remain

Genuine question: How is this different from the times when StickyMayhem suggested it?

No part of stickymayhem's past suggestions helped form this idea for me. Take that as you will

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:54 pm I've gotten at least one admin say they'd admin it already. I mean, heck, it's easier than adminning any other server.

it's not, it's significantly harder becuase the line between grief and play is much much more blurred

i presume this would also entail the rules about what kinds of events admins may run being made equally lenient, which imo would be fun - not that i'm implying the rest of this doesn't also sound very fun, because it does. i'd play the shit outta this

Side note I always kind of hoped excuses would come around for event hall to actually get used more. I'd love if it had a calendar of things people could look forward to. Even a once a month thing like this would be funny on it. Everyone likes being a goblin every once and a while.

TG ass day! TG ASS DAY!!!

MAH ITS HAPPENING

TG kinda already does no RP though, what does this really change? you can say "HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT OBAMA?!!" after killing someone, probably even on manuel. how do you get less RP than that?





Could always repeal rule 8. Then it'd REALLY be different. TG's survived having ERP allowed before, you could do it.

We have decided not to go with the spin up of a full server for this but instead an alternative.

We fully encourage Keyholders to facilitate booting up Event Hall for spur of the moment rounds, announced in the Discord, that contain the rules in a notice for those joining. This would ensure both population and moderation exist for rounds like these, or any variation of them.