Naming policy draft public perusal thread

[spookuni]

After way too long in drafting and with a significant amount of time staring at words until they make sense again, I finally have a draft for the proposed new naming policy that the admin and headmin teams don't hate enough to release publicly for the community to have a look at.

This draft isn't final, and is still open to changes, but is likely pretty close to what we're looking for in the final policy. If you've got any feedback, you can post it here or/and in the policybus thread I'll be putting up after a few days for this topic, so without further ado

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Names for all species must not violate rules 3, 8 and 11 (I.E, not explicitly OOC, not creepy or sexual, and not bigoted) and must not be intentionally hard to spell. Examples of excessively OOC names include but are not limited to: References to real life persons or historical figures, or references to the characters existing in a game or game mechanics. Additionally, different character species have different requirements and guidelines: (Spook note – these can be split up onto the different species pages on the wiki after amendment / if they remain in their current state post-drafting, the main rules page does not need the guidelines for every species)

Humans: Characters are required to have a first name and a last name, and may have up to one title, honorific or nickname. Names should meet a minimum standard of good faith - references to historical figures, juvenile nonsense (examples: Poop Boy, Dorkhead Mcgee, Syndie Fukr), excessive puns or any violation of the above rules will be rejected as names. (MRP): While silly or unrealistic names on the MRP servers are still okay, names should meet the higher standard of avoiding explicit references and blatant jokes or puns.

Felinids: Felinids largely follow the human guidelines of requiring a first name and a last name but have a somewhat higher tolerance for silly or pun names, especially cat or food puns.

Lizards: Lizard names should either consist of two psuedo-words linked by a hyphen (example: Geeta-Jin, Azel-Zaw), or some variant of verbs-the-noun or equivalents (example: Made-For-Greatness, Scales-of-Silver, Sings-With-Frogs)

Ethereals: Ethereals names consist of the name of a celestial body (or a name that reasonably sounds like it could be a celestial body) followed by one to three capital letters. (MRP): Real celestial bodies with dumb names are excluded from reasonable ethereal names on MRP (yes the Eye of Sauron Nebula exists, no you cannot name an ethereal EyeOfSauron XP on MRP)

Plasmamen: Plasmamen names consist of an element, alloy or compound name followed by one to three roman numerals.

Moths: Moth names generally consist of some combination of latin words (primarily moth taxonomic names strung together), but receive a specific exemption to have any character name (justified in character as a nickname) they like that does not violate the general requirements to comply with rules 3, 8 and 11 (a minimum of effort is however still required even for silly moth names to ensure we don’t end up with 53 moths named “lamp” and 78 moths named “moth”)

Exceptions: Wizards, Nuclear Operatives and Performers (Mimes and Clowns): All of these are exempt from normal naming requirements for a believable or normal name and have partial clearance for minor but explicitly OOC references in their names, but should still hold back from too excessively OOC, or anything that violates rules 8 or 11 (Run-by-Chat the fake-streamer clown is okay, whentheantagisvalid the mime is not)

Interspecies naming: If a player has a character backstory that reasonably explains why a character of one species is using the naming convention of another, they may substitute the naming convention of their actual species for another, a human raised by lizards could use a verbs-the-noun style name, for example or a lizard raised by plasmamen may use their elemental naming scheme. The exception to this is that the moth nickname exemption is non-transferable, non-moths may use their base latin/taxonomic naming scheme with character reasons, but you cannot name a human "Table" with the excuse that they were raised by Moths.

The Gimmick Exemption: Names that lean on or are technically in violation of naming policy may at admin discretion receive an exemption to be used temporarily to enable interesting, entertaining or plain fun character gimmicks. Admins are encouraged to allow this where possible as long as players are putting in a good faith effort to use the exemption in ways that are beneficial for everyone. Characters using this exemption should not become a player’s primary player character in the long term – a few rounds as “high-lord Bob” can easily be made interesting, but gimmicks wear down and 50 rounds in it just becomes a drag for everyone else, to say nothing of 200 – keep gimmicks short sweet and interesting.
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A particular note of interest are ethereal names - several LRP admins are interested in removing the MRP division I have drafted in and outright banning stupid-but-technically-legal ethereal names on all servers, given my relative unfamiliarity with server culture on LRP, I'm interested to know what the community thinks of that proposal.

[serxule]

or references to the characters existing in a game or game mechanics.

i never liked this rule, it removes quite a few gimmick ideas along with the fact that it can be quite fun, for example, an antag engineer named "gordon freeman" resonance cascading the SM on LRP, i think as long as there's a purpose to using the name it should be allowed, atleast for LRP.

(oh also i just realized that you kinda badly worded "references to characters in existing games or game mechanics")

[wesoda25]

Ethereal and plasmaman naming conventions are boring as hell and should be a suggestion not a requirement. Remember that SCIENTISTS created the names for most of these celestial bodies and elements and they are unimaginitave lame little people. If i wanted them to name my ethereal id ask neil degrasse tison on twitter. Not to mention a NUMBER suffix is super duper boring yawnville. If you open the door to EVERYONE and ANYONE being able to come up with their own name instead of making them opt into a naming scheme that maybe like FIVE PEOPLE came up with you'll get a more creative and interesting cast of characters as opposed to a homogenous slurry of boring LAMENESS where ethereals are forced to either act like annoying idiots to standout or go bottom barrel gimmick and start referring to themselves in third person (watchout parents this warning goes for you too when naming your kids). admins can of course rein in the more dumb ones

[Itseasytosee2me]

I don't see the point in given certain species more pun privileges than others. A felinid with long red hair named "Bay Con" shouldn't be allowed if the same couldn't be done for a human, unless your goal is to solidify felinids them as the dumb meme species.

[BlueMemesauce]

We don't even have name police in real life. You can name your child whatever you want. I don't see a need for this.
Also, only having 2 names for humans is from a very European perspective. What about humans who are Indian that are typically given 3 names at birth? Statistically speaking, there would be much more Indians on the space station than Europeans.
I don't think there should be any name policy except for not breaking rule 8 or being a meme reference.

[Farquaar]

What was wrong with the old naming policy?

[Agux909]

Names for all species must not violate rules 3, 8 and 11 (I.E, not explicitly OOC, not creepy or sexual, and not bigoted) and must not be intentionally hard to spell. Examples of excessively OOC names include but are not limited to: References to real life persons or historical figures, or references to the characters existing in a game or game mechanics. Additionally, different character species have different requirements and guidelines: (Spook note – these can be split up onto the different species pages on the wiki after amendment / if they remain in their current state post-drafting, the main rules page does not need the guidelines for every species)

I agree with the first part of course, and not including real life names, as I don't want to be seeing Adolph Hitlers running around making jew related jokes, fuck that.
I also like the line "Admins may get involved if your name is dumb and can approve or disallow names at their discretion while in-game." not being present in this general portion, as it was just too vague and admins could strike down something that wasn't even near to be a misfit by common sense (see Dreary Doom, Dorkus Hore cases).

I disagree with forbidding character names from other games, what's the point? It's all fiction, and it fits the wacky environment. Props to someone doing it and actually roleplaying a certain character's gimmick/behavior their whole round.
Think it as having a special guest on the station and suspending our disbelief for a moment to act as if they were the actual character, for entertainment's sake. Best case scenario we end up with incredibly fun interactions, re-enactments, gimmicks, and a good time or laugh. Worst case scenario, they're using the name just for the heck of it or to have a reason for being dicks, which is enforceable with rule 1.
Same argument with movie/series characters' names, but those aren't included in the OP so I guess they're allowed?

Humans:
First of all, agreeing with BlueMeme, the way it's worded on the OP right now, human names would technically have to follow [First Name](optional title, honorific or nickname)[Last name], and in reality (and fiction), there are names longer than that (heck, I have 2 first names and 2 last names).
Previous policy stated that human names should include a first name and last name minimum, and that's how I think it should remain worded for clarity's sake.

Felinids:
They're either a joke species or they are not. They already have quirks differentiating them from other species. Why do they arbitrarily need to have laxer convention than humans? As easy2see said, is it because they're a meme species? If they are, why are they still in the game? Either give humans the same leeway or have both conventions be the same.

I have nothing specific to say about the other species and conventions, except maybe what Wesoda pointed out about Ethereals/Plasmamen having boring ones.
I barely ever remember any Ethereal/Plasmaman or their names because it's more like they had a serial number instead of an actual name, which makes them less memorable overall.

[cybersaber101]

The length of your suggestions already make policy impossible.

[NamelessFairy]

Going to re-iterate some stuff publicly that I've mentioned when discussing this internally.

• The ethereals using dumb names is just as dumb on LRP as it is on MRP, keep that stuff on NRP we don't need ethereals named "Hamburger".
• I like the interspecies and gimmick exemptions, although seems silly that the rule needs a separate exemption for moths. I will note I dislike moth naming policy though I'm not going to die on the hill of it but it seems dumb that being raised by moths specifically removes your right for an interspecies names, imo either this exemption shouldn't exist or moth naming policy should be written in a way where this exemption is not necessary.
• Removing the "Admins may get involved if your name is dumb and can approve or disallow names at their discretion while in-game." is dumb since it will permanently exist as long we enforce LRP behavior as a minimum, names that are dumb enough that attract admin intervention will not qualify for the bare minimum roleplay standards and will still face admin intervention, it just wont be as obvious when reading the rules.
• Lastly, its way to long naming policy is something that new players need to understand, I personally think most of what you've written would be better as naming guidelines, not included in the core rules, to supplement the already existing naming policy rather than replacing it entirely.

[Misdoubtful]

I probably brought this up internally but I'll post it here as a reference point for people to consider.

Bee's naming policy:

https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Naming_Guidelines

Naming Guidelines
This page provides the naming conventions that are enforced as part of the rules

By Race
Human: Normal human names, the kind that won’t raise an eyebrow if you chose to name your child. This applies to all other races that reference human names. Human names should not include any prefixes nor suffixes.
Apid: Human First name that starts with B, Flower last name. Names that resemble clever bee-puns or names involving buzzing.
Ethereal: First name is any celestial body or name that sounds like one (look into Greek/Roman mythology for inspiration if nothing else), Last name is two capital letters.
Felinid: Normal human names, though typically with Asian origins.
IPC: Robotic Acronyms or Model identification numbers consisting of 4-10 Numbers, letters and hyphens. Human names are not appropriate for IPCs.
AIs and Borgs: Robotic Acronyms, Model identification numbers or simple Non-Acronym names provided they are computer or robot related. Human names are not appropriate for borgs or AI.
Lizard: Hyphenated names describing some action, or two part hyphenated names following Ashwalker naming conventions.
Oozeling: First name is almost any color, last name is any human surname ending in "son".
Moth: Latin (or psuedo-latin) species name OR a Single word object, concept or event of some special significance to the character. Names containing "Moth" or "Lamp" are not permitted.
Plasmaman: First name is or sounds like a periodic table element, last name is Roman Numerals

Other information
All races: Are forbidden from having titles, nicknames and honorifics in their character name. This means “Dr” is not your first name and quoted nicknames don’t go in the middle of official IDs
Clowns, Mimes and Wizards: May completely ignore the guidelines outlined above, but are still up to admin discretion on whether a name is inappropriate in general.

Its always been the tried and true I've posted ever since finding it when it comes to naming policy. A very good place to start and consider the kinds of directions to take things in, because it is incredibly simple and effective.

[serxule]

I probably brought this up internally but I'll post it here as a reference point for people to consider.

Bee's naming policy:

https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Naming_Guidelines

Naming Guidelines
This page provides the naming conventions that are enforced as part of the rules

By Race
Human: Normal human names, the kind that won’t raise an eyebrow if you chose to name your child. This applies to all other races that reference human names. Human names should not include any prefixes nor suffixes.
Apid: Human First name that starts with B, Flower last name. Names that resemble clever bee-puns or names involving buzzing.
Ethereal: First name is any celestial body or name that sounds like one (look into Greek/Roman mythology for inspiration if nothing else), Last name is two capital letters.
Felinid: Normal human names, though typically with Asian origins.
IPC: Robotic Acronyms or Model identification numbers consisting of 4-10 Numbers, letters and hyphens. Human names are not appropriate for IPCs.
AIs and Borgs: Robotic Acronyms, Model identification numbers or simple Non-Acronym names provided they are computer or robot related. Human names are not appropriate for borgs or AI.
Lizard: Hyphenated names describing some action, or two part hyphenated names following Ashwalker naming conventions.
Oozeling: First name is almost any color, last name is any human surname ending in "son".
Moth: Latin (or psuedo-latin) species name OR a Single word object, concept or event of some special significance to the character. Names containing "Moth" or "Lamp" are not permitted.
Plasmaman: First name is or sounds like a periodic table element, last name is Roman Numerals

Other information
All races: Are forbidden from having titles, nicknames and honorifics in their character name. This means “Dr” is not your first name and quoted nicknames don’t go in the middle of official IDs
Clowns, Mimes and Wizards: May completely ignore the guidelines outlined above, but are still up to admin discretion on whether a name is inappropriate in general.

Its always been the tried and true I've posted ever since finding it when it comes to naming policy. A very good place to start and consider the kinds of directions to take things in, because it is incredibly simple and effective.

i like a lot of those but it definitely needs revision to be applied here (since afaik beestation is mrp only, and we have 3 lrp servers)

[serxule]

actually i wanna edit it a bit to make it fit better with what i think is good for naming, along with good for lrp:

By Race
Human: Normal human names, the kind that won’t raise an eyebrow if you chose to name your child, although references or names that mention real people are more restricted (e.g. characters named "Adolf Bitler", "Carl Marks" are not allowed). This applies to all other races that reference human names. Human names can include prefixes/suffixes.
Ethereal: First name is any celestial body or name that sounds like one (look into Greek/Roman mythology for inspiration if nothing else), Last name is two capital letters.
Felinid: Normal human names or a pun/joke
AIs and Borgs: Mostly freeform, acronyms and numbers are allowed. Single human names are allowed for borgs or AI (e.g. AI named "John v2").
Lizard: Hyphenated names describing some action, or two part hyphenated names following Ashwalker naming conventions.
Moth: Latin (or psuedo-latin) species name OR an object, thing, concept, event OR vaguely human sounding name using some form of pun (e.g. Motthew, Lampton). Names like "Moth" or "Lamp" are permitted under admin discretion.
Plasmaman: First name is or sounds like a periodic table element, last name is Roman Numerals

Other information
All races: Are allowed titles, nicknames and honorifics in their character name.
Clowns, Mimes and nameable antags: May completely ignore the guidelines outlined above, but are still up to admin discretion on whether a name is inappropriate in general.

[Farquaar]

What was wrong with the old naming policy?

Again, I ask this question because we need to be clear about the alleged shortcomings of the old policy if we're to evaluate whether the proposed changes are an improvement.

[serxule]

What was wrong with the old naming policy?

Again, I ask this question because we need to be clear about the alleged shortcomings of the old policy if we're to evaluate whether the proposed changes are an improvement.

honestly imo its too vague and too dependent on admin discretion

[Striders13]

I just hope removing admin discretion doesn't make us end up with "everybody knows this name is awful, but it doesn't break any rules, so we're not going to do anything about it". Can't think of any examples, but it'll probably happen anyway.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I still stand by "Humans must be firstname lastname" and "can include an honorific in their name" as being equally dumb as I did when they were forced in.

Felinids having special pun dispensation is misguided. Ban pun names or do not, don't bow to pressure and carve an exception.

Plasman and ethereal names are samey and boring, but that's never really a problem because only a few people a shift play them so there's rarely a mixup.

Lizard name policy seems ok

Moths: I think banning puns/ weird names and enforcing firstname lastname is stupid if on the same crew you can have Chicken Nugget the moth. But a moth being allowed to be called "Chicken Nugget" is very funny, so I'm neutral on this.

[serxule]

I just hope removing admin discretion doesn't make us end up with "everybody knows this name is awful, but it doesn't break any rules, so we're not going to do anything about it". Can't think of any examples, but it'll probably happen anyway.

there obviously still should be admin discretion to avoid names like what you're saying, but i've had multiple times where multiple known server admins are fine with a name i have, but then an admin i've never seen before tells me i have to change it because they didnt like it, which is honestly pretty stupid

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I just hope removing admin discretion doesn't make us end up with "everybody knows this name is awful, but it doesn't break any rules, so we're not going to do anything about it". Can't think of any examples, but it'll probably happen anyway.

Rule 0, my beloved...

[iamgoofball]

remove the species specific shit and we're good

[TheRex9001]

What? So we just have a station of human sounding names running around whilst being from loads of different cultures with different naming conventions?

[iamgoofball]

What? So we just have a station of human sounding names running around whilst being from loads of different cultures with different naming conventions?

yes, let people be creative with their characters

[Bawhoppennn]

Again, this naming policy still runs into the same issues as years ago...

I could go on, but still, the absolute biggest issue for me is the human naming, firstname lastname matter.

Not only does this stifle numerous good-faith names, it is also blatantly biased in favor of Western-style naming. There are countless Native American, West African, Islamic, East Asian, and Polynesian (among others I am sure...) REALWORLD human names that this would explicitly forbid. I don't see how that could be acceptable in anyone's eyes if we're trying to have a broad in-game setting that isn't exclusively tied to the West.

Edit: To be clear, I have been going over this for years and I have been trying to come up with a comprehensive system to deal with the complex reality that is naming. However, I recognize that categorizing every use-case is probably unrealistic for applicable actual server policy.

As such, I believe the practical and most simple solution to this, is to add a clear exemption that any real-world style name is automatically allowed (assuming it's not a celebrity/breaks the other rules). This would still allow for creative unorthodox names, but not prevent any genuine use of a realistic name.

Edit 2: I should also clarify I never meant that anyone was intentionally doing anything to discriminate or such. I just was voicing this as a concern, not an accusation.

[Mickyan]

This is fine you're always going to get people who'd rather skirt the rules and then complain about being asked to change instead of just working within the limitations of the rules in the first place

Although beside the point I agree that the ethereal (and plasmaman) naming conventions are severely limited and it greatly hurts the appeal of the races themselves, but nobody ever came up with anything better

[iamgoofball]

Not only does this stifle numerous good-faith names, it is also blatantly biased in favor of Western-style naming. There are countless Native American, West African, Islamic, East Asian, and Polynesian (among others I am sure...) REALWORLD human names that this would explicitly forbid. I don't see how that could be acceptable in anyone's eyes if we're trying to have a broad in-game setting that isn't exclusively tied to the West.

yeah, remove the naming policy for species

[Farquaar]

I could go on, but still, the absolute biggest issue for me is the human naming, firstname lastname matter.

Not only does this stifle numerous good-faith names, it is also blatantly biased in favor of Western-style naming. There are countless Native American, West African, Islamic, East Asian, and Polynesian (among others I am sure...) REALWORLD human names that this would explicitly forbid. I don't see how that could be acceptable in anyone's eyes if we're trying to have a broad in-game setting that isn't exclusively tied to the West.

Nanotrasen is globohomo, not Starfleet. They don't care about unique cultural naming conventions- NT forcing humans into a corporate box drives that point home imo.

[BlueMemesauce]

Most species names don't use their real names but actually the translation of their names into Galactic Common (which we read OOC as English). Lizards originally have native names like the ones randomly generated, but these are hard to pronounce in Galactic Common so they usually take on a translated name. We call Ethereals by the Earth name of their celestial body, but their actual name would probably be based on the name of the celestial body in Ethereal culture.
It's not too hard to imagine people taking on a Galactic Common name for simplicity, this happens fairly often in real life.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I could go on, but still, the absolute biggest issue for me is the human naming, firstname lastname matter.

Not only does this stifle numerous good-faith names, it is also blatantly biased in favor of Western-style naming. There are countless Native American, West African, Islamic, East Asian, and Polynesian (among others I am sure...) REALWORLD human names that this would explicitly forbid. I don't see how that could be acceptable in anyone's eyes if we're trying to have a broad in-game setting that isn't exclusively tied to the West.

Nanotrasen is globohomo, not Starfleet. They don't care about unique cultural naming conventions- NT forcing humans into a corporate box drives that point home imo.

OK but in-universe Nanotrasen isn't a US company. Everyone's speaking Galcom, not English

[Farquaar]

I could go on, but still, the absolute biggest issue for me is the human naming, firstname lastname matter.

Not only does this stifle numerous good-faith names, it is also blatantly biased in favor of Western-style naming. There are countless Native American, West African, Islamic, East Asian, and Polynesian (among others I am sure...) REALWORLD human names that this would explicitly forbid. I don't see how that could be acceptable in anyone's eyes if we're trying to have a broad in-game setting that isn't exclusively tied to the West.

Nanotrasen is globohomo, not Starfleet. They don't care about unique cultural naming conventions- NT forcing humans into a corporate box drives that point home imo.

OK but in-universe Nanotrasen isn't a US company. Everyone's speaking Galcom, not English

Exactly.

[Bawhoppennn]

I could go on, but still, the absolute biggest issue for me is the human naming, firstname lastname matter.

Not only does this stifle numerous good-faith names, it is also blatantly biased in favor of Western-style naming. There are countless Native American, West African, Islamic, East Asian, and Polynesian (among others I am sure...) REALWORLD human names that this would explicitly forbid. I don't see how that could be acceptable in anyone's eyes if we're trying to have a broad in-game setting that isn't exclusively tied to the West.

Nanotrasen is globohomo, not Starfleet. They don't care about unique cultural naming conventions- NT forcing humans into a corporate box drives that point home imo.

While I appreciate the spirit of the argument certainly, the issue I have is that over the years we've oriented the whole corporate disregard for culture/etc to be about different species, but not for humans per se. If we were making a new server with a new setting, I would be all on-board with requiring that sort of logic, but our setting I think is pretty well-established at this point to cater to human concerns, with regards to cultural representation, while ignoring non-human matters. In that way, it'd be much more fitting to pidgeonhole lizard names, for instance, into the first-lastname naming system, if we needed to. Regrettably, I just don't think this works with everything else we've established in our circumstances. Obviously not even mentioning the OOC things that are important here as well.

[thgvr]

Quite a few questionable things here.

Humans: Characters are required to have a first name and a last name, and may have up to one title, honorific or nickname. Names should meet a minimum standard of good faith - references to historical figures, juvenile nonsense (examples: Poop Boy, Dorkhead Mcgee, Syndie Fukr), excessive puns or any violation of the above rules will be rejected as names. (MRP): While silly or unrealistic names on the MRP servers are still okay, names should meet the higher standard of avoiding explicit references and blatant jokes or puns.

Felinids: Felinids largely follow the human guidelines of requiring a first name and a last name but have a somewhat higher tolerance for silly or pun names, especially cat or food puns.

Seems fine here. The obvious stated.

Lizards: Lizard names should either consist of two psuedo-words linked by a hyphen (example: Geeta-Jin, Azel-Zaw), or some variant of verbs-the-noun or equivalents (example: Made-For-Greatness, Scales-of-Silver, Sings-With-Frogs)

I don't see a single fair reason to limit lizard names in such a way and requiring that they be "raised by humans" or whatever to have anything differing. If this were to be followed and lore-accurate, any lizardperson from Tizira would be named such, but citizens of that planet would absolutely not be finding themselves in human controlled space past a few fringe cases or those who left/were exiled from the planet, which I doubt they would want to keep their previous name in those cases. As far as I can see, other than the funny elder scrolls names, this being proposed is only bringing the random character string file into consideration, which is definitely not the be-all-end-all for naming. Similar to (moth) below.

Ethereals: Ethereals names consist of the name of a celestial body (or a name that reasonably sounds like it could be a celestial body) followed by one to three capital letters. (MRP): Real celestial bodies with dumb names are excluded from reasonable ethereal names on MRP (yes the Eye of Sauron Nebula exists, no you cannot name an ethereal EyeOfSauron XP on MRP)

Ethereals have not had a ton of fleshing out in regards to names - mostly widely accepted that they'd be names of constellations, which is fine and people seem to enjoy it. I don't see a reason to restrict some things that aren't necessarily... real english-only celestial bodies. [EX: Auriga, Aurora, or other made up space-y words.]

Plasmamen: Plasmamen names consist of an element, alloy or compound name followed by one to three roman numerals.

Fine I suppose. Similar to Ethereal. There's never been a real reason either of these are concrete - for example, plasmamen are former-humans and such, and I don't know why they'd be selecting random elements off the periodic table for their name, and I don't think this is explained in any semi-official lore capacity.

Moths: Moth names generally consist of some combination of latin words (primarily moth taxonomic names strung together), but receive a specific exemption to have any character name (justified in character as a nickname) they like that does not violate the general requirements to comply with rules 3, 8 and 11 (a minimum of effort is however still required even for silly moth names to ensure we don’t end up with 53 moths named “lamp” and 78 moths named “moth”)

Moth random names haven't been updated since what I'm sure was their inception, and especially not after any surrounding lore was written for the species. This should be changed to be more similar to their language, rather than specifically latin-esque moth names [EX Toch Mitallen], but this would require a bit of effort into changing the name strings file. Changing this could also help steer people towards being less meme-y with moth names or making them feel more fleshed out and realized past what I feel were always placeholder names. (Not counting names they would have chosen for themselves in Common - just their true name, I suppose)

Interspecies naming: If a player has a character backstory that reasonably explains why a character of one species is using the naming convention of another, they may substitute the naming convention of their actual species for another, a human raised by lizards could use a verbs-the-noun style name, for example or a lizard raised by plasmamen may use their elemental naming scheme. The exception to this is that the moth nickname exemption is non-transferable, non-moths may use their base latin/taxonomic naming scheme with character reasons, but you cannot name a human "Table" with the excuse that they were raised by Moths.

Restriction stifles roleplay, and SS13 will always be roleplay oriented. Seems okay.

[datorangebottle]

I don't like any of the species naming guidelines being any more than that; guidelines. As long as the name isn't directly the same as some real figure, a video game character, or silly nonsense, it should probably be fine. Current naming policy stifles character creation and creativity in general. Names like "Imitates-the-lizards" should be fine for a non-lizard as long as they have a story for their character to support it.

[bastardblaster]

naming policy is a waste of time if there's anything to it that's not "don't name yourself anything dumb and if an admin dislikes the name then change it".

[kieth4]

naming policy is a waste of time if there's anything to it that's not "don't name yourself anything dumb and if an admin dislikes the name then change it".

Fully agree. I'm not sure why we're wasting so much time here when I can guarantee already that it won't be enforced properly (admins don't enforce it on their friends or other admins.) And only sometimes use it on players they don't like. The true policy is "If someone doesn't like it they will ask you to change it." That's it no words will do anything to change it.

[iamgoofball]

spoke with spookuni in discord and im significantly less concerned about this naming policy

[Striders13]

naming policy is a waste of time if there's anything to it that's not "don't name yourself anything dumb and if an admin dislikes the name then change it".

[zxaber]

Plasmamen: Plasmamen names consist of an element, alloy or compound name followed by one to three roman numerals.

Are we talking a hard limit of no more than three?

[confused rock]

Naming policy that gives certain species special naming freedoms for no real reason doesn't do anything but lead to frustration and confusion. If U want people to hate a species on an ooc level, then letting them be named lamp fluff moff (which WILL happen, only human names are ever policed) is the way to do it. We shouldn't grandfather stupid names, either. There's no reason humans, cats, moths, can't all use regular names; moths actually have decent randomnames that work fine enough. I'd even say lizards could switch away from Argonian shit, but people would bitch for years about that.

Giving lax naming policy overall? Fine, as long as it is done for humans, though TG has somehow always been braindead in naming policy and had an occasional admin permanently cancel a reasonable human name that was allowed for months, so I'm skeptical tg can ever comprehend a lax human naming policy without occasional shitty bans.

[Timberpoes]

Bitches-For-Years

A name very deep on very many levels.

[confused rock]

Fuck you.

[Super Aggro Crag]

naming policy is ass i can't name my tobacco afficienado human Big Cigarettes but Lampyfluffstein the moth and Stinki de Puupuu the catgirl get to blight the server with their presence

[HeyHey]

I really dislike the Ethereal naming policy. Why do we need the stars to be known in a human language in 2023 for it to be valid in a rp enviroment set 500 years in the future with aliens? Etherals should be able to make up any single name + a few letters. SDHDSHSADHADS FU for example.

[dirk_mcblade]

Not only does this stifle numerous good-faith names, it is also blatantly biased in favor of Western-style naming. There are countless Native American, West African, Islamic, East Asian, and Polynesian (among others I am sure...) REALWORLD human names that this would explicitly forbid. I don't see how that could be acceptable in anyone's eyes if we're trying to have a broad in-game setting that isn't exclusively tied to the West.

None of those places give a fuck about SS13 or how we name characters within.
I've only seen servers in North America, South America, Europe, and Russia, making SS13 very much a Western game unless you want to disqualify on the basis of Russia (that subject is in the eye of the beholder and I don't care all that much).
If you know of any other server locations I'd actually be quite interested because my ping often sucks.
North American countries such as the USA require you to use First Name Middle Initial Last Name on governmental forms. There seems to be no legal argument that this system is racist and I don't see why someone would want to exceed that standard.
Furthermore, every East Asian country I've been to uses First Name Last Name conventions with no middle names. Unless you know something about Korean names I don't, First Name and Last Name conventions is actually more East Asian than it is Western (Western countries often have MORE than just two names). We don't need people who seemingly don't understand East Asian naming conventions to try to drag East Asia into this by claiming they suffer some sort of bias by being confined to a First Name Last Name system they already follow.

[BlueMemesauce]

Although it is true that Romanized Chinese names only have 2 names, I believe he was referencing the fact that in the actual Chinese language the vast majority of Chinese people have 3 names.

[BlueMemesauce]

Also Korean people have 3 names too so I don't even know what you're talking about.

[dirk_mcblade]

Korea is the one place I haven't seen government identication cards for so I can't speak for them having three names or not, but Korea doesn't speak for all of East Asia either even if that were true. You'd have to specify that as specifically a Korean concern.
Here's three example documents right now from China with the following names.
彭小敏
劉岩
黃勃
All of these naming conventions are surnames (彭,劉,黃) and given names (小敏,岩,勃).
Both Chinese governments follow a given name / surname system (aka first name last name system). Show me a government form that does otherwise if you want to dispute this, otherwise I don't see the point over this hand wringing concerning cultural sensitivity when the game already follows a standard held by the largest East Asian government. In addition I believe Japan follows this convention too.
I emphasize there's probably more people in China/Korea/Japan playing one round of Apex right now (60 players) than there are playing across all of SS13's servers. This game isn't remotely on their cultures' radar, and I think it's a waste of time changing policy when it's something they neither know about nor likely would care about even if they did.
EDIT: Because even though I believe these ID cards are forgeries/example documents I'm not interested in potentially doxing some poor dudes out there on the offchance their info is publicly available on duckduckgo, so I am removing their other identifying information fields.

[datorangebottle]

Dirk, you realize you're sitting here arguing against wokeism instead of the actual point, which is that it prevents people from making characters that are descended from those cultures, yes?

[Farquaar]

Dirk, you realize you're sitting here arguing against wokeism instead of the actual point, which is that it prevents people from making characters that are descended from those cultures, yes?

He's saying that you can make characters from other cultures without opening up naming policy beyond the firstname-surname convention.

[dirk_mcblade]

Dirk, you realize you're sitting here arguing against wokeism instead of the actual point, which is that it prevents people from making characters that are descended from those cultures, yes?

He's saying that you can make characters from other cultures without opening up naming policy beyond the firstname-surname convention.

Correct. Whether there's one, two, or three fields is irrelevant. Most countries' IDs follow the given name surname format, and your given name could potentially include more than just a first name (though in practice the vast majority of Chinese East Asians do not have middle names. Those that do are likely nationals of other ethnicities or naturalized foreigners. Either way it goes into the given name field).
If you really want to accommodate other cultures you should remove the policy on using the Roman alphabet for names. Though I will 100% use a cuneiform name if that gets removed. Good luck having sec call me out on the radio when there's a half dozen foreign scripts in use on the server.
There's nothing stopping you from naming a character Yan Liu or Xiaomin Peng otherwise.

[dirk_mcblade]

I'm just going to add because this is interesting to think about, not necessarily to argue, I don't know if the current generally accepted worldwide system of Given name / Surname + romanization system is "good" on its merits but even countries that don't use roman alphabets still agree to this system for the passports for their nationals. It's likely done for expediency sake because at the end of the day all of these different countries want their people to be trackable internationally and they agree to this standardized system out of expediency to make that happen. I think from an administrative standpoint their concerns are similar to our concerns from a game standpoint which is we just want to have the largest denominator of people able to type people's names out because the game requires communication. I think as long as you don't name your human character Butt Fucker I don't think any reasonable admins ought to burn you for naming yourself Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah (aside from this being a real life figure which is a separate policy[though we'll end up with a nice peanut thread if you use bombs as tator with that name]).
I just don't agree that given name surname is discriminatory against East Asians as a blanket fact because in China at least that's their internal system (not just for passports).

[BlueMemesauce]

Both Chinese governments follow a given name / surname system (aka first name last name system). Show me a government form that does otherwise if you want to dispute this, otherwise I don't see the point over this hand wringing concerning cultural sensitivity when the game already follows a standard held by the largest East Asian government. In addition I believe Japan follows this convention too.

I thought that the majority of Chinese names had 3 characters, but you posted 2 exceptions so maybe I was wrong. But you can still see that 彭小敏 (Peng Xiao Ming) has 3 parts to the name. On a passport there are only 2 names, the surname and given name. The last two characters are both part of the given name in Chinese, but when Romanized there would be 3 names.

I emphasize there's probably more people in China/Korea/Japan playing one round of Apex right now (60 players) than there are playing across all of SS13's servers. This game isn't remotely on their cultures' radar, and I think it's a waste of time changing policy when it's something they neither know about nor likely would care about even if they did.

There's no rule saying you can only name your characters based on the country you're from. I have a Chinese character named Ren Zhi Ping even though I'm not Chinese.