/tg/Station 13

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Terry
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: muffindrake
Admin: FatalX1
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 187961
Detailed summary: This was a wizard round, which I made significantly less dangerous by gibbing the wizard with a highcap welding fuel tank bombing. This explosion damaged the tritium tanks nearby that I, as an atmos tech, was using to store scrubbed tritium from a nearby burn chamber. This caused hot tritium to leak, which ended up burning open all three tritium tanks into Atmospherics proper. Shortly afterwards, the tritium ended up burning through the floor and through to space, which should have been the end of this. Unfortunately, the AI 'saw tritium being leaked' and ended up setting the Atmospherics air alarm to Contaminated mode, which ended up overriding my custom scrubber settings for five scrubbers harvesting tritium and h2o. I didn't notice this, and re-enabled fuel intake into my burn chamber after I fixed the breaches and repressurized atmos, which was by now either spaced or covered in atmos resin. As a result, I have lost 95% of the tritium I should have, and was unable to make any Hypernoblium, which I need to make spaceproofing crystals for the crew, and which requires large amounts of tritium. My shift was completely ruined by this boneheaded move that I have seen too many times now, and been assured that repeated actions of this manner (i.e. griefing the entire work of atmos techs by overriding their scrubbers settings) would have consequences.

Unfortunately, FatalX1 didn't like my tone, and saw my suggestion as an order, and pretty much closed the ahelp right there and put me on their shit list. They also falsely accused me of constantly ordering admins to do something in ahelps, which is not correct.
They lacked the context of me as an atmos tech with 1.4k hours on tgstation alone being repeatedly griefed by AIs that do this. Generally, I have learned to deal with this in a constructive manner, and attempt to let the AI know exactly what happened and why this needs to be avoided.

Also also unfortunately, this AI player, note that I'm not writing 'well-meaning AI' here, had no intention of changing their mind about what they did, and will likely commit this offense in the future again. I politely asked them to look at the custom scrubber settings I had in atmospherics, after I had re-fixed them and had to waste half the shift fixing the damage the big hammer Operating Mode setting did, however, they deflected completely and ended up going for the Ignore Lizard option. At this point I suggested an admin talk to them and tell them to never do this again unless they're actually an antag or are ordered to do so by a human.

I had too many shifts where this happened, even for less dangerous situations like 'I detected 0.03% plasma in the air, so fuck you'. Getting told off by an admin which I suggested to at least talk to them about it. You won't even do this completely effortless thing that would markedly improve the gameplay on the station for me?

Since this is a rule 1 rule break that is committed by several different AI and cyborg players over and over, and nothing is being done, I suggest putting a precedent in there specifically for AIs messing with air alarms in specifically Atmospherics, which gives a license to atmos techs to go round remove them from that point onwards. A five-second action on behalf of the non-antag AI shouldn't be allowed to completely remove a job from the game, and further them not wanting to learn from their mistakes.

This is the first ticket, where you clearly didn't just ask me to look at it, and openly asked that I reprimand them for it

https://atlantaned.space/tgdb/ticket/187961/4
Second ticket, where you openly threatened me with a complaint if I refused to DO ask you ask, this wasn't you asking nicely

https://atlantaned.space/tgdb/ticket/187961/5
I did take a quick look at atmospherics, it didn't seem to be majorly broken or causing any harm, and I gave you a suggestion of what to do, as a lizard, the AI under asimov does not have to listen to you, so, IC issue (and I didn't see the AI going particularly out of their way to fuck you over, the AI mentioned in chat they were busy and from what I can tell, more or less left you to it)

As for my final remark of you telling us what to do, I'm not going to post any of them, but I have linked them for the headmins and other admins to look at, it's something a lot of the terry admins have noticed

https://atlantaned.space/tgdb/player/mu ... ke/tickets

Not sure how any of this is complaint worthy but hey, headmins can take a look

I actually have the following to hand because I very recently dealt with an issue exactly like this:

Timberpoes wrote:I would appreciate it if you kept a cooler head when talking to our server staff in admin helps. Admins have a better perspective on the events of the shift due to all the admin tools and admin vision than any individual player has.

Demanding our staff do something plus threatening them with a complaint if they do not comply is thoroughly unacceptable.

Going off on a rant or insulting the other player is not productive to resolving issues either and drags tickets out needlessly. Even when you are frustrated, we do not expect you to take those frustrations out on admins handling your ticket.

Don't use admin complaints in ahelps as leverage or threats to influence admin team members.

I feel duty-bound to step in when players are trying to hold complaints like a metaphorical Sword of Damocles over an admin's head when the player doesn't get their way in an ahelp.

I'll check in with the other headmin team members to see if they feel there's anything else that needs to be said or if there's anything even actionable here as far as admin conduct is concerned or as far as headmins making policy rulings is concerned.

So is the mere mention of an admin complaint already too far? Should I use code like 'I strongly disagree with your admin decision' or 'Your decision warrants further scrutiny' next time I have a problem with an admin?

FatalX1 is again missing the complete context of random AI players fucking up meticulous setups in atmos over and over. They do not engage with atmos content whatsoever. The most direct cases of this happening is some random engie borg, or a player that got atmos tech and doesn't actually want to do atmos tech, taking exactly 1 (one) step into atmos, not looking at anything else, tunnel-visioning on the air alarm, and hitting Contaminated mode, because apparently the wiki tells people it's A Good Thing(TM) to do. I am, to this day, told by admins, not the least of which FatalX1, that no action will be taken against that. I can't lock down air alarms against humans and AI players both. They do irreparable damage that cannot be fixed once they have taken said action.

The A.I goal here was clearly to fulfill their lawset, not to ruin your hard work, they stepped in after your actions leaked tritium.

Most players aren't going to understand another players custom setup at a glance in a crisis situation and will instead default to countermeasures that are familiar.

You bombed your own department as a lizard, then tried to lecture the A.I after they had to intervene, it's not a rule break to not attend an angry atmosians lecture after they bombed their own department.

Lacran wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:19 pm The A.I goal here was clearly to fulfill their lawset, not to ruin your hard work, they stepped in after your actions leaked tritium.

Most players aren't going to understand another players custom setup at a glance in a crisis situation and will instead default to countermeasures that are familiar.

You bombed your own department as a lizard, then tried to lecture the A.I after they had to intervene, it's not a rule break to not attend an angry atmosians lecture after they bombed their own department.

It doesn't need to be a setup of any complexity, you literally need to use a singular Vent Pump or Scrubber - that is the minimum requirement. What should happen is 'AI sees that atmospherics has been touched by players, so they leave it alone'. Or, uh, checking whether one manually-placed vent or scrubber exist.

What happens instead is 'AI goes full good boy mode and DECONTAMINATE DECONTAMINATE DECONTAMINATE'.

Admins won't touch this pleasant source of positive AI-player interactions, neither by telling people to stop touching Atmospherics air alarms, nor telling them how they can avoid fucking with atmos techs as a whole. Asking questions towards admins is fine. Telling admins to relay crucial pieces of information about game mechanics that are necessary to understand before you even touch an air alarm in order to not fuck up hard apparently is a complete no-no.

Edit 2: I would like to assert that the AI has absolutely no say in what the atmospheric composition in Atmospherics proper is. We can literally do whatever the fuck we want in there, including flooding it with plasma, n2o, and spacing it completely, and we're not supposed to be messed with by the AI for it since it's not going to affect crew that isn't even supposed to be there.

The headmin team has investigated this.

This is IC Issue: The Complaint.

You're on our servers, playing a multiplayer game, with other people.

If you can't tolerate other people interacting with your workplace, consider whether this is the right game for you. The AI has massive amounts of control across the entire station and, yes, that includes atmospherics. There is no issue with AIs interacting with Atmospherics as a department. If you're going to be turning the place into an inhospitable hellhole, consider making sure the AI is on board with your plans first.

There's absolutely nothing here for FatalX1 to answer for.

This complaint is rejected as without merit. Grow up.