/tg/Station 13

like fr there's nothing sensitive in there that warrants keeping people who might really need a modsuit right fucking now out of there. it's like putting a command access restriction on escape pods.

everyone just asks the AI to open the shutters at roundstart and that's that. ironically, the overrestriction of access (parameds just lost their EVA access for some reason, even though it's an access that's totally in-theme with their job??) has caused nobody to give a shit about EVA access. any sec officer who actually enforces EVA being a "restricted command area" gets laughed at/lynched.

why isn't it just a public area? put windows on it if you're worried about some shitter sabotaging all of the modsuits (or don't, that's kind of funny), it's not like a single door (or a shutter that the AI opened at roundstart) would have stopped them from getting in anyway.

Here are three guesses i can come up with.
1. Spacesuits are expensive limited resource
2. you might not want every crewmember access to going out into space round start. (example: one certain player who would rob the armory every time they got antag. You knew when they raided eva)
3. so they are there for later in the round when a emergency comes up that needs them

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:44 am Here are three guesses i can come up with.
1. Spacesuits are expensive limited resource
2. you might not want every crewmember access to going out into space round start. (example: one certain player who would rob the armory every time they got antag. You knew when they raided eva)
3. so they are there for later in the round when a emergency comes up that needs them

1. Modsuits exist so that's kind of irrelevant
2. Hasn't stopped people from immediately asking the AI to open it since its not considered a dangerous area, making the restriction pointless
3. Later on in the round people have better means of space protection in the form of pressure adaption+Insulated clothing / Modsuits and in most cases they're all gone by this point anyway

With the existence of modsuits as just being better EVA gear in general I really don't see why something that always gets raided roundstart by those with access should be restricted in the first place

Think of EVA restriction being an access restriction to space itself. Not everyone should have access to space by default, but situations exist where command should give general access to everyone -- Think of opening EVA shutters as the space equivalent of emergency maintenance access. When someone doorjacks into maintenance, security takes note that a traitor now has access to a certain wing of maintenance. When someone doorjacks into EVA, security doesn't just have to note that a traitor can access the EVA storage room, they now have to account for the entirety of space around the station.

From my (100% biased) view as a command nerd, giving people situationally based access to EVA, whether it be for a gimmick or just to make repairs, works better than having everyone EVA equipped by default. It helps keep track of which players have access to space, so when Unknown EVA Suit Man blows open the armory and tosses it into space, the command/security information network can quickly account for who took what. Giving EVA access that extra layer of auditability and difficulty is pointless when the hallways are vented, but during the low to medium intensity moments of a round, the restriction makes a bit more sense. Good thing the ability to change who has access to EVA based on the intensity of the current situation already exists.

The need to argue that command isn't useless has overwhelmed my hatred for posting on the forums. Great work.

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:44 am Here are three guesses i can come up with.
1. Spacesuits are expensive limited resource

If someone is taking a modsuit, they're presumably taking it to USE it for something. The penalties for wearing modsuits (no armor, slowdown, no eating) inherently disincentivize you from taking one if you don't NEED it. That was, like, a major part of their design, from what I understand.

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:44 am 2. you might not want every crewmember access to going out into space round start. (example: one certain player who would rob the armory every time they got antag. You knew when they raided eva)

If a player wants to use them to tide/for a frivolous reason, a single door will not stop them. Hell, even if it could, they could just ask for permission from anyone with EVA access (such as, say, the AI or the curator) and receive it 99% of the time, because who the fuck denies an EVA access request?

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:44 am 3. so they are there for later in the round when a emergency comes up that needs them

If you are taking a modsuit, you probably NEED it for something. Once a person who needs a modsuit is done with it, they should end up returning it to EVA (which is made harder if EVA has access restrictions, btw)- the only situations where a modsuit is "consumed" by its usage are if someone dies while wearing it (which probably means that they took it into a crisis that needed one anyway) or forgets to return it (and nobody later picks up the discarded modsuit and returns it to EVA).

Making EVA locked to the general public/not opening the EVA shutters at roundstart as an AI will make it harder for people to get modsuits in those crises that need them, especially if the AI (or its cameras near EVA) was destroyed by said crises.

Rhials wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:04 amso when Unknown EVA Suit Man blows open the armory and tosses it into space, the command/security information network can quickly account for who took what.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIWHvPP0U64

That was the best argument I've seen so far for keeping EVA access restrictions around, though, I'll give you that.

It used to have the only rcd on station, which was a tot item.
Kind of outdated at this point though.

We used to be deeply afraid of anybody going in EVA to the point where some AI's would bolt it roundstart, but as ArcaneDefence said this was back when the RCD was a traitor item and was the only one on station outside of those made in the autolathe. It hasn't been treated as forbidden the way it once was in a very long time, so I'm wondering what the point of this thread is.

It does make sense to not have the EVA suits be publicly available though because recently I've seen a few people using them to breach the armoury or the CE's office as antagonists.

cacogen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:01 am It hasn't been treated as forbidden the way it once was in a very long time, so I'm wondering what the point of this thread is.

It's still forbidden in space law and still has incredibly restrictive access requirements. Just yesterday, PARAMEDICS, which have going to space to collect corpses as a PART OF THEIR JOB, lost their EVA access, forcing them to share the single modsuit Medbay starts with.

ask the ai

Being space proof is a kind of weapon and a multipler for real weapons.

Anyone can get access to a utility belt that allows them to deconstruct essentially anything on the whole station, but the real blocked to breaching the station is being space proof. I can deconstruct the armory with just an EVA suit, or thermite it if I have access to basic chemicals, or c4 it if I'm a traitor. I can breach windows across multiple departments, I can bolt open departures and turn it into a pressureless killzone. Space is dangerous and anything that allows you to survive it while others can't puts you in a position where you can do dangerous things to other people.

I think this gets underestimated today because traitors tend not to do this kind of sabotage as often as they used to, preferring to murder on station, but it's an important thing to take into account as security and command. I think, as others have suggested, EVA being one of the many emergency tools at the stations disposal is a nice way to make command and the AI important to the wider crew. Red Alert, Maintenance Access, EVA, All Access and Armory are all things that impact everyone's game experience based on the level of threat and how desperate the situation is. Are we opening EVA because there are breaches all over the station, or because war ops are attacking and we need as many people out in space packing heat as possible?

Friction generates interaction, so I wouldn't want to see this friction removed even if for many people with an interest in space it just amounts to "AI Open"

1) Because space is dangerous and when you don't fear it you can open wherever you want to space without consequence which sucks for anyone who doesn't already have space protection
2) Holdover from when it had Magboots, RCD, Jetpacks, all of which were tator objectives (RCDs are still dangerous but that's not exactly where you find them anymore)?