/tg/Station 13

Why? It just keeps happening. I don't understand it. Why must we suffer?

SS13 is (ironically) a very non-traditional game with intentionally backwards design in a lot of areas, because the mechanics play into the interest of a grander story than actual fun gameplay. This can be a hard concept to grasp and goes directly counter to a lot of what you might learn at a school for game design. It's very easy to point to a mechanic like old slips, say "hey isn't that a bit strong, it should be removed for being too strong," and remove it, without ever considering all the fucking awesome stories that came from something as simple as a clown slipping the nuke ops to clinch a victory or whatever. As a result, you have a more balanced, significantly less interesting game.

They feed from our suffering. It's their motivation when they sit down and start mashing the keyboard, drooling, eyes looking inwards.

PKPenguin321 wrote:It's very easy to point to a mechanic like old slips, say "hey isn't that a bit strong, it should be removed for being too strong," and remove it, without ever considering all the fucking awesome stories that came from something as simple as a clown slipping the nuke ops to clinch a victory or whatever. As a result, you have a more balanced, significantly less interesting game.

Pretty much my opinion on disarms. There was a unpopular argument that disarms being random chance helped even the playing field between those with skill and those without; you could never completely discount the chance of someone landing that lucky first try disarm and turning the tables on you. It's also why a lot of people hated it. Mechanically disarms were kind of shit but I always felt great getting a disarm on someone in a pinch.

there is hope yet
hail to the king baby

Gigapuddi420 wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:It's very easy to point to a mechanic like old slips, say "hey isn't that a bit strong, it should be removed for being too strong," and remove it, without ever considering all the fucking awesome stories that came from something as simple as a clown slipping the nuke ops to clinch a victory or whatever. As a result, you have a more balanced, significantly less interesting game.

Pretty much my opinion on disarms. There was a unpopular argument that disarms being random chance helped even the playing field between those with skill and those without; you could never completely discount the chance of someone landing that lucky first try disarm and turning the tables on you. It's also why a lot of people hated it. Mechanically disarms were kind of shit but I always felt great getting a disarm on someone in a pinch.

you can still get this exact same story from just a punch though. 2 nights ago i saw a singular cultist trying to convert so i punched him once and got dropped which led to his death a few seconds after it was hilarious

What happened why are there two coder hate threads

Don't let this drop

terranaut wrote:


there is hope yet
hail to the king baby

I can definitely say, from my long absence, that nearly everything except CQC and the like feels INCREDIBLY weak compared to 2014 tg.

Nobody liked StunStation 13, but in CURRENT YEAR, even being crit doesn't necessarily full-stun you.

i like that in soft crit you can at least call someone a cringe

Being able to yell at unrobust doctors who are treating the wrong kind of damage after taking you away from an assistant who was fixing the right kind is, in fact, a true blessing.

Pandarsenic wrote:

terranaut wrote:


there is hope yet
hail to the king baby

I can definitely say, from my long absence, that nearly everything except CQC and the like feels INCREDIBLY weak compared to 2014 tg.

Nobody liked StunStation 13, but in CURRENT YEAR, even being crit doesn't necessarily full-stun you.

Move away from this line of thinking where fair combat is at the top of the priority list. Go back to thinking about what makes you scared in this game. When I last actively played (a year ago?) the only thing I was worried about was not getting my preferred role after making the time to play, but backinmyday my worries were some guy trying to shuffle up to me and getting within contact range resulting in my death through parasting and having my DNA slurped. The result? You were constantly trying to play around being near people and interacting with them, but with the caveat of having to decide on a per-round basis who was more trustworthy than the others, so when the Singulo got loose or someone bombed Medbay, you'd have to pick someone for safety, and it had better be the right guy. THAT is my jam, I don't give a shit about geting completely owned by a one click 20 second stun+mute if I make the wrong decision.

PKPenguin321 wrote:As a result, you have a more balanced, significantly less interesting game.

100% agree, balance =! better.
Balance/nerf/removal is only needed when some specific feature/mechanic breaks the game over and over again. It isn't needed when something is quite rare.

A good example is the gatfruit removal. It was pretty much never an issue - maybe once every 50-100 rounds it would result in everyone having 357s. But because it was able to unbalance the game, it was removed. Nevermind that it was not actually an issue, nevermind that people enjoy the game getting chaotic and broken every so often... It was simply removed for balance purposes.

If you end up balancing everything perfectly you end up with a very fair yet very boring game. It's good to have jank, so long as the jank isn't the same jank every single round.

Shadowflame909 wrote:What happened why are there two coder hate threads

mso had his annual mso moment and then when he got told off for being a baby he declared himself headcoder.

now all the people who haven't played the game in a year or more are coming out of the woodwork with no context to say mso based because he did something that pissed off coders

maybe there's a reason those people haven't played in a while but welcome the possibility of some change :slight_smile:

sinfulbliss wrote: A good example is the gatfruit removal. It was pretty much never an issue - maybe once every 50-100 rounds it would result in everyone having 357s. But because it was able to unbalance the game, it was removed. Nevermind that it was not actually an issue, nevermind that people enjoy the game getting chaotic and broken every so often... It was simply removed for balance purposes.

Except that never happened lol
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/60484

actioninja wrote:

Shadowflame909 wrote:What happened why are there two coder hate threads

mso had his annual mso moment and then when he got told off for being a baby he declared himself headcoder.

now all the people who haven't played the game in a year or more are coming out of the woodwork with no context to say mso based because he did something that pissed off coders

Hello, speaking as the representative of a server full of old player refugees who have the entire context from logs, several people still unbanned reading the ensuing molding in coder chat and Denton himself, the opinion from everyone is 90% “get fucked coders” and 10% “both sides are dumb but coders are worse”.

The game has never been better.

Most of the features bitter burnouts cry about being excised were cancerous and made the game worse.

ShadowDimentio wrote:

actioninja wrote:

Shadowflame909 wrote:What happened why are there two coder hate threads

mso had his annual mso moment and then when he got told off for being a baby he declared himself headcoder.

now all the people who haven't played the game in a year or more are coming out of the woodwork with no context to say mso based because he did something that pissed off coders

Hello, speaking as the representative of a server full of old player refugees who have the entire context from logs, several people still unbanned reading the ensuing molding in coder chat and Denton himself, the opinion from everyone is 90% “get fucked coders” and 10% “both sides are dumb but coders are worse”.

copium

Kryson wrote:The game has never been better.

Most of the features bitter burnouts cry about being excised were cancerous and made the game worse.

does the new ui still randomly crash and force you to restart the game? it did about 3 years ago at least

people asking for oldtg balance when things like welderbomb gibbing and ranged parasting existed

please no

terranaut wrote:

Kryson wrote:The game has never been better.

Most of the features bitter burnouts cry about being excised were cancerous and made the game worse.

does the new ui still randomly crash and force you to restart the game? it did about 3 years ago at least

Yes

It also, every few rounds, does a thing where the visuals all stop updating until you restart the client

Kryson wrote:The game has never been better.

Most of the features bitter burnouts cry about being excised were cancerous and made the game worse.

Correction.

*The game has seen better times

*Most of the features enjoyers cry about being excised were disliked by some coders/maintainers because they made their own idea of the game worse.

There. Everybody knows how it's just a case of flexing your independence just because you can and non-coders can't stop you. No need to be sugar-coating it any other way.

Kryson wrote:The game has never been better.

Most of the features bitter burnouts cry about being excised were cancerous and made the game worse.

Headlines: Coder certain they’ve made the right design choices, dismisses complaints about removals as them being “cancerous”.

my question is how many people involved in this actually play the fucking game

0

?‍

prove it

My byond username is in that little panel on the left, you can use Scrubby to check it out

The forum gremlins have smelled drama and stir once more.

Everyone above me is an absolute plonker

I feel like I should clarify that I posted in this thread before knowing a single thing about the MSO/coderbus memery that's going on. I definitely don't hate coders and I still like SS13, but I disagree with the overall direction that the game has taken in the last two years. Personally I still think hard stun removal was one of the worst changes in this sense.

PKPenguin321 wrote:I feel like I should clarify that I posted in this thread before knowing a single thing about the MSO/coderbus memery that's going on. I definitely don't hate coders and I still like SS13, but I disagree with the overall direction that the game has taken in the last two years. Personally I still think hard stun removal was one of the worst changes in this sense.

Agree. Everything and everyone is miserably weak now, because not that the great balancer that was stuns is gone now the coders are relentlessly filing down every single sharp edge on the station until everyone’s fighting with padded toys.

Jaredfogle wrote:My byond username is in that little panel on the left, you can use Scrubby to check it out

observing doesnt count

fuck you timonk stop discriminating

Agux909 wrote:They feed from our suffering. It's their motivation when they sit down and start mashing the keyboard, drooling, eyes looking inwards.

This is true, I can confirm.
But can you blame us? It's the only joy we have in life.

Everything is suffering. Only pain remains

Rohesie wrote:

Agux909 wrote:They feed from our suffering. It's their motivation when they sit down and start mashing the keyboard, drooling, eyes looking inwards.

This is true, I can confirm.
But can you blame us? It's the only joy we have in life.

i always thought you were more of a masochist than a sadist
is this what working with oranges does to you?

terranaut wrote:

Rohesie wrote:

Agux909 wrote:They feed from our suffering. It's their motivation when they sit down and start mashing the keyboard, drooling, eyes looking inwards.

This is true, I can confirm.
But can you blame us? It's the only joy we have in life.

i always thought you were more of a masochist than a sadist
is this what working with oranges does to you?

I'd quit if that were the case, because working with oranges has been pretty good so far. I'd be sad to see him go.

Kendrickorium wrote:my question is how many people involved in this actually play the fucking game

Game?

Rohesie wrote:

terranaut wrote:

Rohesie wrote:

Agux909 wrote:They feed from our suffering. It's their motivation when they sit down and start mashing the keyboard, drooling, eyes looking inwards.

This is true, I can confirm.
But can you blame us? It's the only joy we have in life.

i always thought you were more of a masochist than a sadist
is this what working with oranges does to you?

I'd quit if that were the case, because working with oranges has been pretty good so far. I'd be sad to see him go.

You're joking right? Every second interaction with the tangerine consists of a mix of fuck you and do it yourself

Yea it would be sad to see him go

Timonk wrote: observing doesnt count

Psssst



Psssssssssst

timonk you need to learn how to get unbanned before you can get unbanned by oranges

And you need to learn to uhhh

Timonk wrote:And you need to learn to uhhh

GOOD point

Rohen_Tahir wrote:

sinfulbliss wrote: A good example is the gatfruit removal. It was pretty much never an issue - maybe once every 50-100 rounds it would result in everyone having 357s. But because it was able to unbalance the game, it was removed. Nevermind that it was not actually an issue, nevermind that people enjoy the game getting chaotic and broken every so often... It was simply removed for balance purposes.

Except that never happened lol
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/60484

The sentiment still stands, and I don't believe the PR was closed because coders thought "gatfruit good."
But take any other example you like (thunderdome armor nerf for instance).

sinfulbliss wrote:

Rohen_Tahir wrote:

sinfulbliss wrote: A good example is the gatfruit removal. It was pretty much never an issue - maybe once every 50-100 rounds it would result in everyone having 357s. But because it was able to unbalance the game, it was removed. Nevermind that it was not actually an issue, nevermind that people enjoy the game getting chaotic and broken every so often... It was simply removed for balance purposes.

Except that never happened lol
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/60484

The sentiment still stands, and I don't believe the PR was closed because coders thought "gatfruit good."
But take any other example you like (thunderdome armor nerf for instance).

Why do you think it was closed then?
Mothblocks and Potato said they like gatfruit as they think it's funny.
Cobby said he didn't want the removal either, and suggested it to be a little bit harder to get if anything if a nerf was needed.

i just imagined a world where that pr was merged and now I'm REALLY mad. wtf coders

sinfulbliss wrote:

Rohen_Tahir wrote:

sinfulbliss wrote: A good example is the gatfruit removal. It was pretty much never an issue - maybe once every 50-100 rounds it would result in everyone having 357s. But because it was able to unbalance the game, it was removed. Nevermind that it was not actually an issue, nevermind that people enjoy the game getting chaotic and broken every so often... It was simply removed for balance purposes.

Except that never happened lol
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/60484

The sentiment still stands, and I don't believe the PR was closed because coders thought "gatfruit good."

What the fuck are you even saying here

"It was awful that X happened"
"X didn't happen"
"I guess, but it's awful that X could have happened even though it didn't"

What is your thesis here exactly

FUCK YOU CDOERS YOU WILL REMOVE CLOWN IN 2023 IN THE TIMELINE DESIGNATED AS FF8C1A.