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Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:27 am
by stan_albatross
Antag or not, I absolutely despise about 90% of chemist players.
Standard chemists checklist of what they believe to be "useful" for medbay (when they aren't just making le funny nades as non antag) :
- spending 30 minutes on a factory for shitty salcid/oxa pills that nobody will remove their gas masks to be fed
- 10u of pentetic acid if you are lucky
- organ healing chems when you ask for them and never any time else
- SR (fuck SR)
What they should be doing :
- if you want to heal brute and burn, stack chems. Libital + omnizine + salicylic acid heals brute much faster than salicylic acid by itself does. However, 90% of chemists do not understand the concept of chemstacking
- use patches not pills since players are morons and don't let people heal them, instead preferring to do it themselves. They also really don't like taking off masks.
- instead of wasting time on chems for easily healable damage (brute and burn) make chems that heal hard to heal damage such as toxin
- make iron pills for the love of God
- mass produce chem bags as they are simply better medical belts that fit patches
And this ENTIRELY relies on them actually wanting to help medbay and not just be shit
MDs having access to the pharmacy is a stopgap since MDs are lazy and most of the time the chemists boot them out again
You know who these chems are really useful for? Paramedic. Countless times I have had to self produce stacked chems like LSO, AOO, MIO, SP. If you don't know what those acronyms are you are part of the problem.
Tldr chemists bad and not helpful and they only make SR which is gay
edit : just remembered you can use synthflesh (and xyz other shitty cat 1 cobbychems) to quadra stack or even quinta stack brute and burn heals
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:28 am
by cacogen
how do i learn chemistry
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:57 am
by Super Aggro Crag
sounds like a bagil problem
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:35 am
by nianjiilical
i mostly play med doctor with an actual intent to heal people and i didnt know some of this
maybe part of the issue is just players not knowing things rather than all being terrible
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:16 am
by stan_albatross
nianjiilical wrote:i mostly play med doctor with an actual intent to heal people and i didnt know some of this
maybe part of the issue is just players not knowing things rather than all being terrible
Stacked chems are something every player has to "get their head around" in their own way, but the most common sense thing that chemists could make are MIO patches (mannitol inacausiate oculine) due to sweaty head targeting players and wounds causing organ damage. MDs should never have to heal ears or eyes with surgery when chemicals can do it. Also 5 patches of that is a godsend as paramedic.
One thing I forgot was purge kits that don't use calomel, what you need is a syringe and 3 bottles, 1 of potassium, sugar, and phosphorus each. Inject your patient with them separately and all the chems in their bloodstream will be removed and turn into smoke, which can then be avoided
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:44 am
by Calomel
stan_albatross wrote:Somewhat hostile (but true) information
Ok, let me go by parts:
- Omnizine is an external resource, it's found in hot donkpockets which arne't that hard to find, but still an external resource, and since chem dispensers now don't have silver either, now pentetic and formol (For preservation after all the epipens are used) are also external.
- I imagine the reason people do oxandro + libi is because when you make oil you're gonna get 15u; you use 10 oil -> acetone -> 60 libital/90 mutadone, and the 5 oil -> phenol -> 90 90 Oxandro/60 Salycilic -> 75 Salbutamol. it's a very time efficent line.
- Chem bags are made out of cloth, which requires botany not only daring to use the bio dispensers, but also deliver the bags.
- Lastly, insulting people and calling them bad won't make them better (Assuming that was your intention), if you want chemistry to improve, teach them instead of shaming them.
Alright, having said that:
- it is true that people concentrate on brute/burn, when in truth toxin removal (sniriver and the like), and stab agents like atropine are far more useful. It is also true patches are superior to pills in almost every way: the only reason to do pills is to color code them and plant them on the entrance for "paper-cut healing services for the medically untrained". Patch color coding when, btw.
- At this point I think people genuinely don't know that you can stack chems. As long as every individual chem is less than the OD values, or one is a purger (pentetic, calomel), it is far more efficent to make combined chems. the only problem i could see is that it may require you to make multiple rounds of the same stuff to get the quantities a station will use, however, I don't even think that's either a problem, or even that big of a change, specially if you know how to change the chem dispenser's battery, and even then you got a chem factory specially for mass production.
- Also iron restoring blood is such a small line on the chemistry wiki, I'd be surprised if people had seen it. not an excuse, though.
tl:dr for changing batteries.
In short, you're right and I am glad you have reminded people of such things. Personally it's better if you treat interdepartamental stuff as a bonus, and not something to expect. you should never expect things from other people in this game, specially in emdical, which is known for being "New player's first real job".
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:51 am
by Tlaltecuhtli
there is enough syringiver to solve your toxins need by default and pentetic can just be made in hand as 200u is enough for 2 whole chernobyl accidents
chembags can be made with the free bandages in vendor why are you asking chemist for those??
there are like 600u from o2 kits worth of iron, i never saw in 3000h medbay having blood healing problems like just the 2 o- bags are ever used for doctoring,
you can set the printers to patch instead of pills those arent id locked or something
white medkits are the fastest healing method, as doc you should just use those so people can get out of crit and self heal with whatever plumbing has or the white medkits they found in hall, your job is healing people who cant self, if they dont know how they are npcs and not worth your time .
paramedic can go print shit from dispenser by hacking in with their free engi access granted gloves, or asking ai if they are weaklings which is faster than waiting for plumbers, they dont have much to do roundstart other than collecting gaming gear and meds anyway
only point ur right is stacking libtard with sal oxal, it doesnt take much for double efficiency, i think its just that people are slowly catching up with the meta, like 1 month ago plumbing never happened now its in every round
i think the big problems are those faggot docs who tend wound exclusively because they read the shitty wiki and think medicine “is scarce” like in fortnite or something while in reality its the most time consuming and all meds only cost time, the only use it has is making bodies defibable and they even fuck it up by tend wounding to 0 dmg and then wasting 3 more minutes on a dude with 180 o2 damage
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:01 am
by nianjiilical
Calomel wrote:Chem bags are made out of cloth, which requires botany not only daring to use the bio dispensers, but also deliver the bags.
you can actually easily make cloth by using a sharp item like a glass shard or circular saw (i think?) on bedsheets, and theres a whole linen bin of sheets in the medbay storage on most maps
but this is another one of those little things a lot of people dont know just because nothing really tells them
also you can make infinite blood by mixing blood with mutagen and it even copies the type, so an unstable mutagen factory can make infinite o+ blood if you really need it
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:51 pm
by Fikou
fuck you bingus
dumba sss cat
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:39 pm
by stan_albatross
Fikou wrote:fuck you bingus
dumba sss cat
Sir the discord is one door down
Calomel wrote:- Omnizine is an external resource, it's found in hot donkpockets which arne't that hard to find, but still an external resource, and since chem dispensers now don't have silver either, now pentetic and formol (For preservation after all the epipens are used) are also external.
I metarush every donk pocket on the station round start as chemist, omnizine is such a useful resource. Also having to rely on botany for omnizine has driven my head in multiple times.
They removed silver from the dispenser? Fucking hell chem is getting nerfed to shit for everything other than antagshit. This basically delays roundstart pentacid by like 10 minutes, and limits it a ton (and that's if miners exist, are not antags, are good at their job, and actually bothered to bring back silver, and it was not immediately all used up by science or resold by cargo)
Tlaltecuhtli wrote: white medkits are the fastest healing method, as doc you should just use those so people can get out of crit and self heal with whatever plumbing has or the white medkits they found in hall, your job is healing people who cant self, if they dont know how they are npcs and not worth your time .
Ah yes but they can't heal toxin can they. Your point about syriniver is also rather irrelevant as it neither purges chems or rads, so it's only useful when someone gets shot with like an ebow a ton. White NPCkits are also super slow and are literally only good for RP healing (me " applies the regenerative mesh to your chest). A triple stacked burn healing mix can sometimes outheal damage from being on fire. (bonus points if it is quadra stacked with leporazine). Having to make my own shit as paramedic is rather annoying as I could be using that time healing people, and also shitter chemists + doctors + cmos will just instantly boot me out.
If you TW an alive person you deserve the bullet.
Iron patches I feel are useful due to the frequency of blood loss + how big an issue blood loss is, also those shitty little pills are only iron. I believe you can stack rate of blood regain by combining the iron with sugar and nutriment, although I do not know if this works on our current chemistry code.
Also PLEASE let us make our own injectors, so that they don't take the hyposprays niche make chemmaster-produced injectors have a windup on injection (but not self injection).
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:03 pm
by Tlaltecuhtli
syringiver purges chems and for rads u use pentetic anyway
never saw the need of iron and u can just dupe o- blood by filling the half used blood bag with any blood (it turns into o-)
if you feel white medkit are slow u arent using them right, you click multiple times to multiply healing speed
the injectors medbay gets are all refillable with the medipen refiller (u just need bio 1 tech and 1 matter bin from vendor to make ) they have plumbing input too so u can attach them to pipes if you dont want to use a beaker to fill em
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:11 pm
by stan_albatross
Iron's useful for blood replacement outside of medbay
I want to make stacked injectors because current "lol salcid very good injector yes" just doesn't cut it
I also know the clicking multiple times thing with white medkits, they are still slow
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:33 pm
by mindstormy
Wait chemist are supposed to make meds instead of fun toys for the crew like a public lube and thermite dispensers?
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:08 pm
by Nabski
mindstormy wrote:Wait chemist are supposed to make meds instead of fun toys for the crew like a public lube and thermite dispensers?
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:21 pm
by jenqa
like LSO, AOO, MIO, SP. If you don't know what those acronyms are you are part of the problem.
Sorry but can you tell me what are those acronyms?
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:28 pm
by IcePacks
chemists should be building rube goldberg bath salt dispensing machines that go into a smoke machine but getting conveyors/smoke machines/tomatos for enzyme is a mega-pain and y'all killed me the last time i made one
also if your machine setup has any more than ten synthesizers and has a tank anywhere but the end of the factory you deserve all the hate that you receive in this thread
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:42 am
by stan_albatross
jenqa wrote:like LSO, AOO, MIO, SP. If you don't know what those acronyms are you are part of the problem.
Sorry but can you tell me what are those acronyms?
libital salicylic acid omnizine (+ granabitaluri + synthflesh)
aiuri oxandronalone omnizine (+ granabitaluri + synthflesh)
Mannitol Inacausiate oculine
Syriniver pentetic acid
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:37 pm
by cacogen
Yeah sounds complicated I think I'll just stick to not knowing chemistry until there's an easy way in
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:28 pm
by Calomel
cacogen wrote:Yeah sounds complicated I think I'll just stick to not knowing chemistry until there's an easy way in
Well, if you just want the entry level basics, I'll give you a line to follow. It's not stellar but it'll give you an easy eficent line.
Here's some basic lines, broken down to base components for easy reading.
That is a very simple line (no wasted resources, no funacing) that will get you three of the damage types, and if you put them in bottles instead of patches you can then mix and match as you want once they are all done for multi-purpose healing. For toxin however, it's either snyriver or pentetic, which are both more complicated, and require outside resources. if anything, at least make calomel for purging before you go hunting for silver/donkpockets.
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:14 pm
by Mothblocks
why are you using purging chems instead of potassium and water
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:18 am
by stan_albatross
Jaredfogle wrote:why are you using purging chems instead of potassium and water
For single pills/patches that can do it all
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:23 pm
by Shrimapan
ill never be efficient with my chemistry
brainlet moment
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:05 am
by cacogen
Calomel wrote:cacogen wrote:Yeah sounds complicated I think I'll just stick to not knowing chemistry until there's an easy way in
Well, if you just want the entry level basics, I'll give you a line to follow. It's not stellar but it'll give you an easy eficent line.
Here's some basic lines, broken down to base components for easy reading.
That is a very simple line (no wasted resources, no funacing) that will get you three of the damage types, and if you put them in bottles instead of patches you can then mix and match as you want once they are all done for multi-purpose healing. For toxin however, it's either snyriver or pentetic, which are both more complicated, and require outside resources. if anything, at least make calomel for purging before you go hunting for silver/donkpockets.
Thank you I still have trying to learn chem as a goal with no fixed date like putting together that fan I bought or moving my computer to its new case
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:30 am
by RaveRadbury
Chemists have been pretty decent about filling my drug requests lately. Great job, chemists.
(<- Clapping hands insuls)
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:31 pm
by stan_albatross
cacogen wrote:Calomel wrote:cacogen wrote:Yeah sounds complicated I think I'll just stick to not knowing chemistry until there's an easy way in
Well, if you just want the entry level basics, I'll give you a line to follow. It's not stellar but it'll give you an easy eficent line.
Here's some basic lines, broken down to base components for easy reading.
That is a very simple line (no wasted resources, no funacing) that will get you three of the damage types, and if you put them in bottles instead of patches you can then mix and match as you want once they are all done for multi-purpose healing. For toxin however, it's either snyriver or pentetic, which are both more complicated, and require outside resources. if anything, at least make calomel for purging before you go hunting for silver/donkpockets.
Thank you I still have trying to learn chem as a goal with no fixed date like putting together that fan I bought or moving my computer to its new case
Personally I think the main hurdle to learning chemistry is that the chems you need the least/the most specialised chems are very simple (e.g. mannitol, 3 components.), whereas the more common/basic healing chems that you will need a lot are harder to make (e.g. 7 components for libital not counting interproducts) which makes it a very annoying task. Also the existence of plumbing promotes the creation of autismfactories for things like unstacked 2 type healing pills in quantities far greater than the station needs, whereas a dedicated stock of about 20 highly stacked patches for healing each damage type can be accomplished much faster and is infinitely more useful. You can use a synthflesh factory or an alphazine shitty lavaland chem teleporter thing (did alphazine even get added?) to produce extra stuff for making the production of those stacked patches easier. With the existence of integrated dispenser macros there is very little excuse for not being able to pump out more stacked patches with the use of macros.
Re: Chemist hate thread
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:42 pm
by stan_albatross
Right, after some work I've perfected a design for the ultimate brute healing patch.
Libital - 3 brute/tick - 8u (for 5chem setup)
Granibitaluri - 0.5 brute/tick (decreases by .1/tick for every 10 brute a person has, and at 50 brute heals nothing) - usually excluded
Probital* - 2.25 brute/tick *causes stamina damage - 8u (for 5chem setup)
Synthflesh* - 1.25 brute/unit - 8u (for 5chem setup) - 10 brute instantly healed *causes 3 toxin damage
Salicylic Acid - 4 brute/tick or 0.5 brute/tick - 8u (for 5chem setup)
Miner's Salve - 0.5 brute/tick - 8u (for 5chem setup)
Omnizine - 0.5 brute/tick - usually excluded
100 brute damage :
My mixture - 10.25 brute/tick healed with 10 brute instantly healed - All damage healed in about 9 ticks.
100% Libital - 3 brute/tick healed - all damage healed in 34 ticks.
100% Salicylic acid - 4 brute/tick healed until 25, when it heals 0.5 brute/tick - all damage healed in about 68 ticks - 18 to heal the first 75 brute, 50 to heal the remaining 25.
Stacking chems speeds up healing around 300%~. Even a simple libital/salcid stack is 19 ticks to heal 100 brute, a solid reduction from pure libital.