C4 is shit.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Sun May 10, 2020 3:57 am #561247

Imagine paying 1 TC for something that can't even blow open an airlock when you can buy a Syndicate toolbox for the same price and open said airlock faster. C4 needs to be buffed to actually explode airlocks since everyone in support of the emag nerf claimed ops have C4 which is DEFINITELY a """viable""" alternative.

Anuv · Post by **Anuv** » Sun May 10, 2020 4:01 am #561248

Never mind it doesn't even crit people. I think most who supported the emag nerf didn't realize how bad C4 is.

Sun May 10, 2020 4:03 am

make it gib again

trollbreeder · Sun May 10, 2020 7:57 am

revert doormags

pugie · Post by **pugie** » Sun May 10, 2020 10:03 am #561269

Remove it from uplink and just make it craftable as nonantag using rdx and some other chemicals it's not like it's that strong anyways and RDX needs a purpose to serve.

Reeeee · Post by **Reeeee** » Sun May 10, 2020 10:53 am #561270

that's what you get nerds

You removed the iconic item from ss13 due to some hurdur removal urge.
Buy a esword and stop complaining, everyone who ever has used knows c4 is effectively fireworks instead of a working demolition charge.
I don't get why community didn't ree the fuck out about it other than to epicly troll themselves.

THAT'S WHAT YOU GET.

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Sun May 10, 2020 10:56 am #561271

they listened to goof lol

Stickymayhem · Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

Reeeee wrote:that's what you get nerds

You removed the iconic item from ss13 due to some hurdur removal urge.
Buy a esword and stop complaining, everyone who ever has used knows c4 is effectively fireworks instead of a working demolition charge.
I don't get why community didn't ree the fuck out about it other than to epicly troll themselves.

THAT'S WHAT YOU GET.

are you implying that the coders respond to any amount of mad?

if oranges has a random whim it'll happen

Sun May 10, 2020 12:39 pm

Have you tried it on a wall?

Often doors are attached to walls.

skoglol · Post by **skoglol** » Sun May 10, 2020 12:54 pm #561278

Want stronger C4? Get X4

Reeeee · Post by **Reeeee** » Sun May 10, 2020 1:03 pm #561282

Ikoden wrote:Anne makes a good point about walls, but normal walls can be undone with simple toolbox in seconds.

Hidden wall faster than c4 awoo.
well, normal windows were changed to rwindows so i guess it's walls next on the list so then the derpmag has a use?

pugie · Post by **pugie** » Sun May 10, 2020 1:24 pm #561283

C4 does destroy airlocks in one charge it's just destroyed airlocks still leave an assembly in place.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Sun May 10, 2020 1:41 pm #561284

PKPenguin321 wrote:make it gib again

this

NecromancerAnne wrote:Have you tried it on a wall?

Often doors are attached to walls.

of course i did but often doors are attached to r walls which c4 also doesnt do anything to.

skoglol wrote:Want stronger C4? Get X4

i dont want a gaping hole i want c4 to do its advertised job as a viable emag replacement

pugie wrote:C4 does destroy airlocks in one charge it's just destroyed airlocks still leave an assembly in place.

so?? youre telling me i have to wait 10 seconds for it to explode just so i can start hitting it with an esword anyway? i may as well buy the esword then.

stop telling me what to buy instead of C4, i agree all these items are superior. i want c4 to be buffed, not to buy different items.

BrianBackslide · Sun May 10, 2020 1:55 pm

X-4 can't blow airlocks either. At this point both C-4 and X-4 are code bloat with how useless they are.

Jack7D1 · Post by **Jack7D1** » Sun May 10, 2020 2:11 pm #561286

You can unanchor an assembly in seconds with a wrench

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Sun May 10, 2020 2:26 pm #561287

Jack7D1 wrote:You can unanchor an assembly in seconds with a wrench

you can also just esword it in seconds
you can also just deconstruct it with a toolbelt
you're missing the point

Ayy Lemoh · Post by **Ayy Lemoh** » Sun May 10, 2020 3:23 pm #561289

"Hey, ever since we acted retarded and fucked emags, I tried using c4 to destroy airlocks however it isn't worki-"

"alright so you wanna do is just wrench the assembly down/esword the assembly down/esword the airlock/detonate the wall next to the airlock/get a toolbox and very carefully turn a wall into a false wall/put c4 on your yourself then run into the door/ahelp for assistance/shoot the door with a .50 cal sniper rifle after you c4 it/trade in favors with the clown so that he can hack the door for you/hack the door open then c4 it/insert bullshit excuse of a plan here/code it so that c4 can actually destroy the doo- Actually, wait, no, don't do that one."

damn bruhs you really did it. you solved their problem. i don't know what these people would have done without your golden wisdom on what to do when c4 doesn't work properly as they expected.

pugie · Post by **pugie** » Sun May 10, 2020 4:37 pm #561295

Yeah you can wait 10 seconds if you want or you can do the sensible thing and detonate it with a remote signaler but c4 is so weak and badly priced why not just move it out of the uplink and make it something craftable with complicated chemistry.

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Sun May 10, 2020 5:14 pm #561299

pugie wrote:Yeah you can wait 10 seconds if you want or you can do the sensible thing and detonate it with a remote signaler but c4 is so weak and badly priced why not just move it out of the uplink and make it something craftable with complicated chemistry.

because people desire to have it do what it's advertised to do and not to have the advertising changed.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Sun May 10, 2020 6:24 pm #561301

terranaut wrote:
pugie wrote:Yeah you can wait 10 seconds if you want or you can do the sensible thing and detonate it with a remote signaler but c4 is so weak and badly priced why not just move it out of the uplink and make it something craftable with complicated chemistry.
because people desire to have it do what it's advertised to do and not to have the advertising changed.

This. If I am paying 1TC for something then I expect it to work as advertised, otherwise why have it? Let’s review the Syndicate toolbox, an item worth the same amount and has a similar purpose.

Syndicate Toolbox: Can open any door with a small amount of skill, can be used as many times as you want. The only way to stop it is if the door is bolted and depowered. Only disadvantage is it opens a tgui window and requires your attention while doing it. Also requires a minimal amount of preparation. Literally the same cost and according to people in this thread, you need the tools from it to finish the job C4 failed at.

Meanwhile, C4 should theoretically be a one time use item with the advantage being it’s a fire and forget item, meaning you can place it and then shoot back at enemies while waiting for it to blow. Another potential advantage is the lack of warning for enemies, it’s quiet until it explodes. Instead, after the 10 second wait (unless you signal it), you have to spend just as much time as you would hacking the door on breaking whats left of it. Meanwhile the enemies are noticing you wailing on the door, which removes any advantage C4 might have had over the toolbox.

Post by **zxaber** » Sun May 10, 2020 7:45 pm #561318

Maybe crowbarring assemblies could make the door visually open and passable? Additionally, doors reduced to assembly by explosives could automatically be placed in open mode.

Reeeee · Post by **Reeeee** » Sun May 10, 2020 7:48 pm #561319

zxaber wrote:Maybe crowbarring assemblies could make the door visually open and passable? Additionally, doors reduced to assembly by explosives could automatically be placed in open mode.

But why not c4 remove door?

trollbreeder · Sun May 10, 2020 8:07 pm

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/51048
goof wins again by PRing a buff to c4, it will now blow up doors completely

pugie · Post by **pugie** » Sun May 10, 2020 8:25 pm #561325

c4 bolas are back baby

Ayy Lemoh · Post by **Ayy Lemoh** » Sun May 10, 2020 8:41 pm #561328

trollbreeder wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/51048
goof wins again by PRing a buff to c4, it will now blow up doors completely

wait no he can't just solve the problEM NO NO THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING WHAT'S GOING ON AAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

Shitposts aside, this is infinitely more better than just "ok, here's how to make c4 work while ignoring the problem entirely" suggestions. Even if they come from the right place in the heart, that shit really isn't helpful since it can just be countered with "then why the fuck did I use c4?"

edit: however there is now a new problem if that was merged - the damage. I didn't consider it at first however the explosive WOULD now be more effective in general. I guess the alternative is snowflake code for doors however eeeeeeeh I dunno about the damage boost.

Shadowflame909 · Sun May 10, 2020 9:06 pm

C4 Bola is PEAK /TG/. Think about it.

>High Risk High Reward.

>After attaching your C4 to a bola, you have to find your target, be able to traverse any door/block/etc in 10 seconds and throw at it them or you die from the explosion.

>Before attaching your C4 to the bola, you can get easily shift examined and exposed for being a traitor as you have to have both items inhand to start the delayed attachment process.

Many things can go wrong without perfect timing and chance. BUT, Traversing all the risks gives you a very instant murder, that will probably get you revealed for being a tator.

Post by **oranges** » Sun May 10, 2020 9:16 pm #561332

syndies got a jaws of life like the CE has, but I'm okay with you buffing c4

Although I thought it was x4 that destroyed doors.

It might be more interesting to add a specific shaped charge kit that blows doors open (as soon as you slap it on) and sends the door flying across the room hitting anyone behind it.

Nukeops only though.

Ayy Lemoh · Post by **Ayy Lemoh** » Sun May 10, 2020 9:18 pm #561333

oranges wrote:syndies got a jaws of life like the CE has, but I'm okay with you buffing c4

Although I thought it was x4 that destroyed doors.

It might be more interesting to add a specific shaped charge kit that blows doors open (as soon as you slap it on) and sends the door flying across the room hitting anyone behind it.

Nukeops only though.

They did? Wack.

Anyways, yeah, that sounds cool.

Post by **oranges** » Sun May 10, 2020 9:20 pm #561335

Theirs might even be faster at ripping doors open too.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Sun May 10, 2020 10:33 pm #561346

Yea I actually had the Syndicate jaws of life on the ops round I played but they can’t be used on bolted doors. I literally had three different breaching tools (airlock override card, C4, and the jaws of life) and I got fucked by a bolted door because I was relying on the C4 to handle those.

Also I thought of the shaped charges idea oranges mentioned earlier. Meteor shot already does that but that would be really cool to have.

Mon May 11, 2020 1:44 am

The issue about meteor shot being broke and not relocating airlocks is still up from when I made it, so I think it's still broken. I haven't tested it since and never seen it used.

Mon May 11, 2020 1:46 am

trollbreeder wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/51048
goof wins again by PRing a buff to c4, it will now blow up doors completely

That's not a fix that's making c4 into minibombs. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that giving traitors a 1tc gib bomb is a bad idea. And you can set it up as a bomb. I was literally watching a guy do that the other night.

pugie · Post by **pugie** » Mon May 11, 2020 7:07 am #561410

Shadowflame909 wrote:C4 Bola is PEAK /TG/. Think about it.

>High Risk High Reward.

>After attaching your C4 to a bola, you have to find your target, be able to traverse any door/block/etc in 10 seconds and throw at it them or you die from the explosion.

>Before attaching your C4 to the bola, you can get easily shift examined and exposed for being a traitor as you have to have both items inhand to start the delayed attachment process.

Many things can go wrong without perfect timing and chance. BUT, Traversing all the risks gives you a very instant murder, that will probably get you revealed for being a tator.

No it isn't high risk you just increase the timer and detonate with a signaler

Flatulent · Post by **Flatulent** » Mon May 11, 2020 7:18 am #561412

remind me why syndicate mini bombs exist again if we are buffing c4 to be a slightly weaker minibomb but a lot less expensive

Post by **oranges** » Mon May 11, 2020 12:01 pm #561422

are you happy with how this played out beesting

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon May 11, 2020 1:46 pm #561436

Flatulent wrote:remind me why syndicate mini bombs exist again if we are buffing c4 to be a slightly weaker minibomb but a lot less expensive

C4 always used to destroy doors, this was almost definitely an oversight with explosion code somewhere down the line

Tlaltecuhtli · Mon May 11, 2020 2:15 pm

minibombs are trash only ever used to just griff shuttle because u did literally nothing with tc the whole round

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Tue May 12, 2020 6:21 pm #561569

I think c4 blowing up doors is very reasonable. Having to put it on the stronger wall to get in faster feels dumb, even if there are others ways to hack a door.

It is mostly an issue of generalization of airlock destruction, I think airlocks being destroyed by explosions not leaving an assembly is fine.

Wed May 13, 2020 6:28 am

Okay real talk, when people are saying 'destroy doors', do you mean it isn't being destroyed into wreckage, the thing you can wrench up and move? Like, it's not doing enough damage to the airlock to reach that point? Because when I have been using c4 on airlocks, it'll leave a wreckage which I can then move.

That wreckage is dodging the explosion because it spawns after the explosion has occurred.

trollbreeder · Wed May 13, 2020 8:49 am

NecromancerAnne wrote:Okay real talk, when people are saying 'destroy doors', do you mean it isn't being destroyed into wreckage, the thing you can wrench up and move? Like, it's not doing enough damage to the airlock to reach that point? Because when I have been using c4 on airlocks, it'll leave a wreckage which I can then move.

That wreckage is dodging the explosion because it spawns after the explosion has occurred.

They mean destroy doors as in blow up the door and don't leave behind a door assembly (the wreckage)

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Wed May 13, 2020 9:43 am #561683

Alternatively make door assemblies non dense.

It's a blown up door, it should be easy to get past it, lots of other unsecured machinery is also not dense. Delaying destroying the door by a tiny fraction isn't that relevant any way. This way the visual effect is maintained while solving the issue in this thread.