/tg/Station 13

There's no point to this thread I just wrote a big spiel about this in discord and I didn't want to lose it because I think people still didn't understand the goals of techwebs

[08:27] oranges: techwebs was fixing a more concrete issue that didn't really even have much to do with science at all
[08:28] oranges: which was we had very limited ways to gate content globally across all depts
[08:28] oranges: that is the exact issue that techwebs solves
[08:28] oranges: and combined with the protolathes
[08:28] oranges: it stopped science hogging all the late game stuff
[08:28] oranges: techweb was never designed to fix issues with the old RnD
[08:28] oranges: it was taking old RnD and fixing a bigger systematic issue
[08:28] oranges: that's part of why it was so controversial
[08:29] oranges: we basically eliminated a job slot
[08:31] oranges: it was setup such that it would be easy to allot every dept a percentage of the points budget
[08:31] oranges: because the whole point was to NOT have science drive the goddamn thing
08:31] oranges: it just never got finished because people were super toxic to the developer
[08:31] oranges: so now it's stuck in a weird place where the console is nominally in science but it supposed to be on dept head's pda's
[08:32] oranges: and depts are supposed to have their own sub trees and unlocks and progression
[08:34] oranges: it was supposed to be a two "points" system
one is the techweb points themselves, which flow in at a steady rate, allowing us to generate base assumptions about at what point N in a round a tech is available.

the second "points" system was supposed to be a series of experiements, that unlock specific goal nodes that open up a new branch of research
[08:34] oranges: each dept would have dept themed experiments

Tbh that sounds pretty cool.

Rnd is either irrelevant because some guy speed runs the 50 billion research bomb or gets hamstrung because "you gotta research the mining gear!" Making departments responsible for their own gamer gear is a much better idea

This makes sense. Explains a lot of how awful science is. Science should just be killed off entirely and just distribute everything it has to offer between the other departments

I dunno. I think that techwebs, the ore silo, and departmental lathes were kind of shit in terms of making things overly convenient and and reducing interdepartmental cooperation. It doesn't help that it basically eliminated a decent job as well.

Sure, you had retards like fwoosh who would refuse to hand out shit to the crew and batoned anyone that tried to get past him, but I think it'd be fine today, with the focus going more towards MRP. You should have to get materials from cargo, you should have to get new toys from science, you should have to get upgrades from engineering or science.

deedubya wrote:basically eliminated a decent job as well.
decent job
decent job
decent job
decent
decentdecentdecentdecent
decent
decent
decent
decent

it was better than cookie clicker

R&D was never good to begin with. Techwebs has been the most interactive science addition so far I really don't have a problem with it, especially now that we have several other ways of adding points to the techweb system such as using the EXPERIMENTOR or the use of research nanites.

Love doing R&D, upgrading things across the station with a BPED and collecting the good items as I go around. Feels broken, but it's fun. I usually repair and maintain the station after that. Maybe it feels broken because it's fun and easy? Because it's not gated behind a lot of tedium and clunky controls/UI like a lot of the job content? Waiting for research points to generate can take awhile, but you have things to build or upgrade or other jobs in science to do while you wait.

Putting R&D on head tablets is a stupid idea. It should be on a shared console where everybody in that department can access it. Probably a few airlocks away from the hall.

This is effectively what I'm doing in my R&D rework but with points staying in, as I want to still gate exactly what can and can't be afforded with a certain amount of effort.

oranges wrote:

deedubya wrote:basically eliminated a decent job as well.
decent job
decent job
decent job
decent
decentdecentdecentdecent
decent
decent
decent
decent

^
throwback to the guide: https://pastebin.com/4k4v5R73
imagine not doing this and getting fired for being off-meta

PKPenguin321 wrote:throwback to the guide: https://pastebin.com/4k4v5R73
imagine not doing this and getting fired for being off-meta

This is legitimately why we stopped using tech nodes to begin with - there was a very specific set of items you could use to rush end tech and get everything on the list. This happens as well now but it's even more braindead because you just have to wait for enough points.

cacogen wrote:Putting R&D on head tablets is a stupid idea. It should be on a shared console where everybody in that department can access it. Probably a few airlocks away from the hall.

Por que no los dos? I see no problem with having both an NTOS app for it and having it on a console. The head of the department should have the ability to override and choose what they want to research, but the crew should be able to do so as well.

Tl;dr every department will have their own tech nodes where certain things will be required to unlock further progress, not everything will be available every round, you will have to make meaningful choices as to how you want to progress. Does Engineering supercharge the engine and sell back the extra power, or focus more on expanding the station or making things more efficient? Does Research pour effort into perfecting an insane super-soldier serum or developing high-end nanites? Does Cargo help Mining STRIKE THE EARTH or work on more efficient ways to move goods between departments?

I don't want R&D to be developed around the game. I want the game to be developed around R&D. Give people rewards for actually doing their job and they'll actually fucking do it.

Not like most jobs aren’t a checklist.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

oranges wrote:

deedubya wrote:basically eliminated a decent job as well.
decent job
decent job
decent job
decent
decentdecentdecentdecent
decent
decent
decent
decent

^
throwback to the guide: https://pastebin.com/4k4v5R73
imagine not doing this and getting fired for being off-meta

Basically every job can be boiled down to a specific checklist once you're good enough at it, and we don't lynch other jobs for being off-meta.

that guide isnt good, you get ultimate techs with ody healbeams

deedubya wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

oranges wrote:

deedubya wrote:basically eliminated a decent job as well.
decent job
decent job
decent job
decent
decentdecentdecentdecent
decent
decent
decent
decent

^
throwback to the guide: https://pastebin.com/4k4v5R73
imagine not doing this and getting fired for being off-meta

Basically every job can be boiled down to a specific checklist once you're good enough at it, and we don't lynch other jobs for being off-meta.

aside from NTSL, what you said is not true. none of our other jobs have a pastebin that is the ONLY viable thing to do like old R&D had. link one to prove me wrong.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

deedubya wrote:snip

aside from NTSL, what you said is not true. none of our other jobs have a pastebin that is the ONLY viable thing to do like old R&D had. link one to prove me wrong.

Virology tends to crystallize around the most effective healing symptoms with little variation, but that mostly means that it needs a rework as well.

XDTM wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

deedubya wrote:snip

aside from NTSL, what you said is not true. none of our other jobs have a pastebin that is the ONLY viable thing to do like old R&D had. link one to prove me wrong.

Virology tends to crystallize around the most effective healing symptoms with little variation, but that mostly means that it needs a rework as well.

But it does in fact have variation

Vekter wrote: Por que no los dos? I see no problem with having both an NTOS app for it and having it on a console. The head of the department should have the ability to override and choose what they want to research, but the crew should be able to do so as well.

Both wouldn't have the issues resulting from putting it in an object that belongs to one person (e.g. incompetence, loss, theft, death, disappearance, going AWOL, etc.)

you would get beat up or at least moonlighted for not following duke's, it was pretty trash.

The closest thing science has to a "job" is upgrading borgs and pulling off a good toxin bomb, the latter being trivial if you know what you're doing, and the former being trivial even if you don't.
Everything else is Fuckabout territory.