/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:29 pm**

Post Content: I am appealing this ban. I was continuously assaulted by the Detective during my work as Lawyer. When myself and another player were making our way to the escape shuttle he tried to stop us. We retaliated and dragged his body onto the ship. Just because he is the Detective does not mean he has the right to beat me up for fun.
Byond Account: KennyTheCasual - Luda Qris
Banning Admin: Necromancer Anne
Ban Type: Permanent
Ban Reason: "You basically killed the detective for no reason and were not answering admin messaging."
Time Ban Was Placed: 2019-08-02 4:42:52 GMT
Server: Sybil, but for some reason I am banned from both for the same event.
Your side of the story: I was beaten. Then beaten some more. Then beaten some more. They were even told to stop by the Warden. I retaliated with another person on our way to the escape shuttle, when this person (Detective) tried to assault me again. We dragged his body onto the ship. When we arrived on the escape shuttle I got up from my computer considering the round over. Hence why I wasn't answering questioning, so admins were justified in their actions there, if not a bit overkill.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I enjoy the roleplaying aspect, what I was doing that round was playing the role of a defense attorney trying to get due process for those arrested. I never broke character, and really do enjoy the community behind TG, I am fairly new so maybe I didn't understand how strict the rules are. However I feel I was justified in defending myself, though we probably shouldn't have killed him. Given the opportunity I will work to integrate myself into the community in a productive and fun way for everyone, I meant no harm or ill will to anyone in my actions, but I was within my right to defend myself as the admins were to ban me for not answering. I hope that you consider unbanning me as I think I would make a positive addition to the community.

Posted: **Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:56 pm**

This ban occurred in round 114843 on Sybil. (src, statbus, scrubby)

Posted: **Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:19 pm**

Lawyer (KennyTheCasual) is attempting to represent another player (Flechercap) whom the Detective (LynxJynx) suspects is a blood brother.

First physical interaction between Kenny and LynxJynx

Spoiler:

4 minutes later Kenny attacks LynxJynx and is stunned for it

Spoiler:

Warden assists LynxJynx with stunning Kenny

Spoiler:

Kenny then grabs Flechercap (presumably to pull him away) and is then stunned by LynxJynx. Kenny then beats LynxJynx until he last breath's. Not once was Kenny injured by LynxJynx.

Spoiler:

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[2019-08-02 04:37:57.525] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has grabbed Flechercap/(Fulton Zavodski) passive grab (NEWHP: 90.9)  (Brig (109, 166, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:37:59.039] ATTACK: LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) has stunned KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) with the police baton (NEWHP: 100)  (Brig (108, 166, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:09.855] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has punched KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) (NEWHP: 90)  (Brig (111, 161, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:10.088] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has got a stun punch with their previous punch KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) (NEWHP: 90)  (Brig (111, 161, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:11.093] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has kicked LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: 48.8)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:12.203] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has kicked LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: 38.7)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:12.390] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has got a stun punch with their previous punch LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: 38.7)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:13.613] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has kicked LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: 31.2)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:14.727] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has kicked LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: 28.2)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:15.723] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has kicked LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: 26.2)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:16.816] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has kicked LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: 24.7)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:18.027] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has kicked LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: 9.7)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:18.212] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has got a stun punch with their previous punch LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: 9.7)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:19.000] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has kicked LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: -5.3)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:19.001] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has got a stun punch with their previous punch LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: -5.3)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:20.081] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has kicked LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) (NEWHP: -17.3)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:38:21.064] ATTACK: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) has punched Flechercap/(Fulton Zavodski) (NEWHP: 93)  (Fore Primary Hallway (111, 160, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:39:09.730] WHISPER: 04:39:09.730] WHISPER: LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) "fuck this" (Central Primary Hallway (87, 118, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:39:14.775] WHISPER: 04:39:14.775] WHISPER: LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) "life is meaningless" (Central Primary Hallway (91, 114, 2))
[2019-08-02 04:39:14.778] EMOTE: 04:39:14.778] EMOTE: LynxJynx/(Linux Betriebssystem) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Central Primary Hallway (91, 114, 2))

You cannot just attack and kill another player as non-antag for shoving you and "stealing your client".

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[2019-08-02 04:38:38.538] SAY: 04:38:38.538] SAY: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) "told u i would get u out" (Central Primary Hallway (106, 146, 2))

Posted: **Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:28 pm**

I was the detective that you murdered, I just want to state that I never continously assaulted you during the round, infact I only had physical interactions with you, the first one was me shoving you 3 times in the brig control room about 10 minutes before I was murdered the second time can be found in the these lines from the log

Spoiler:

In the altercation you can see that when I went to stun his client to recuff him and take him to the shuttle that the lawyer then assaulted me to free the prisoner who I was taking to the shuttle. Id also like to point out that if you were to check the logs yourself you would find no validity to the claim that I beat him repeatedly at any point in that round. He states he was justified in defending himself when I quite literally did nothing harmful to him until the altercation in which he murdered me and the only harmful thing I did in that was baton him.

Posted: **Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:35 pm**

PLEASE REMEMBER: Withholding information deliberately, in ahelps or FNR, is an excellent way to get ignored, or worse. It's effectively lying. When you say you were 'permabrigged for breaking one wall' and that one wall was the Armory's, then you've denied yourself way better than any of us could manage.

Posted: **Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:53 pm**

The logs have already been posted for this thanks to Malkraz which saves me the trouble of having to highlight the same thing. You brutally beat to death acting security for handling a prisoner in a way you didn't agree with. As far as our rules go, we do not allow people to escalate against security acting as security.

The detective is generally not considered normal security unless empowered to be so and in this instance I'm pretty sure Lynx was acting as an empowered security officer so I'll consider this to be a case of you killing an officer who is carrying out their job.

Here is the relevant citation in our escalation policy:

You can't kill or maim security for trying to arrest you for legitimate reasons.

This includes shoving you down or stunning you for trying to keep a prisoner under control. If you read our rules at any length you would realize we won't tolerate behaviour like this whatsoever. The ban was placed so you would come and address me. And what is more, you are lying about having left to go do something else. I actually sent you an admin message as you made your way from security, freshly beaten Lynx to death, and onto the shuttle. You wouldn't respond even when I prompted you a second and then third time.

If you can't keep your story straight how am I to believe you would be worth keeping around?

Posted: **Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:43 am**

NecromancerAnne wrote:The logs have already been posted for this thanks to Malkraz which saves me the trouble of having to highlight the same thing. You brutally beat to death acting security for handling a prisoner in a way you didn't agree with. As far as our rules go, we do not allow people to escalate against security acting as security.

The detective is generally not considered normal security unless empowered to be so and in this instance I'm pretty sure Lynx was acting as an empowered security officer so I'll consider this to be a case of you killing an officer who is carrying out their job.

Here is the relevant citation in our escalation policy:
You can't kill or maim security for trying to arrest you for legitimate reasons.
This includes shoving you down or stunning you for trying to keep a prisoner under control. If you read our rules at any length you would realize we won't tolerate behaviour like this whatsoever. The ban was placed so you would come and address me. And what is more, you are lying about having left to go do something else. I actually sent you an admin message as you made your way from security, freshly beaten Lynx to death, and onto the shuttle. You wouldn't respond even when I prompted you a second and then third time.

If you can't keep your story straight how am I to believe you would be worth keeping around?

I was never attempting to lie during any of this. If they were two different characters then I am incredibly sorry. What did happen though throughout the round was my getting assaulted by someone representing security, the Warden for said round had a private conversation with me about this. As to the admin messages, if I did see them, I did not and still do not know how to respond to them. I am new and trying to learn this game. I guess I didn't learn enough before attempting to join the server, and should have read the rules more thoroughly. What I thought to be an assault on the inmate, I perceived as such, because he had been hit before, and so had I, without justification. I do not know how to pull up the logs to find evidence of this information, but if I am shown will go through and look for where I was assaulted, repeatedly without cause. I am not trying to mislead anyone. I am incredibly sorry if it came off this way. I will attempt to go through the logs to find evidence, but again I am trying to learn as I go here.

Posted: **Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:00 am**

To finish I will say this. Firstly, LynxJynx was definitely not the name I remember, for the person who had been hitting me. Again, I wish I remembered the name of the Warden so that he could back up that side of the story, and I do not have access nor know how to go through the logs to find this.
So I am sorry to LynxJynx, what happened to him was wrong and a release of built up aggression whom I thought was directed at the person who had been attacking me.
Secondly, I could not tell the intent of the LynxJynx in taking the prisoner aboard the ship, because for the most part when I had been repeatedly and persistently asking for people to help, noone responded, one person (maybe it had been earlier in the round) told me to "shut the fuck up". So when someone finally did show up, I assumed they had ill will. They did not say anything to clarify, but they were not required to either. So I apologize for this.
Thirdly, in regards to the messages, I had mentally clocked out by the time we were headed for the ship, so I was genuinely not paying attention, and remember myself getting up right after. Whether this was before or after messages were sent, I don't recall, I wasn't paying attention. And I got off soon after.
Lastly, I am not trying to mislead anyone or hurt anyone, emotionally or physically, I am trying to learn. My intent that round came from a place of good intent. I apologize for being a burden on this server, whatever you decide to do I will respect, if I am not wanted here, so be it. But I am sorry and want to do better.

Posted: **Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:20 am**

CasualTheKenny wrote: If they were two different characters then I am incredibly sorry. What did happen though throughout the round was my getting assaulted by someone representing security

You were pushed and stunned all of 5 times by the detective. Neither action is harmful and only exist to tard wrangle.

CasualTheKenny wrote:I do not know how to pull up the logs to find evidence of this information, but if I am shown will go through and look for where I was assaulted, repeatedly without cause.

Logs were posted by bobbahbrown in the first response to your thread. Relevant attack logs were parsed by me in the second. Not once were you "assaulted, repeatedly without cause" by anybody, especially the detective. The only harm done to you by players were from the Warden's leg sweep and your own briefcase.

CasualTheKenny wrote:LynxJynx was definitely not the name I remember, for the person who had been hitting me.

LynxJynx is the player's ckey. Their character name was Linux Betriebssystem.

CasualTheKenny wrote:My intent that round came from a place of good intent.

You were attempting to get a suspected antagonist out of trouble for no real reason, going so far as to kill the detective for it.

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[2019-08-02 04:38:38.538] SAY: 04:38:38.538] SAY: KennyTheCasual/(Lou DaQris) "told u i would get u out" (Central Primary Hallway (106, 146, 2))

Posted: **Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:11 pm**

Malkraz wrote:
CasualTheKenny wrote: If they were two different characters then I am incredibly sorry. What did happen though throughout the round was my getting assaulted by someone representing security

You were pushed and stunned all of 5 times by the detective. Neither action is harmful and only exist to tard wrangle.

What about the conversation with the Warden, or the conversation at the beginning of the round where I and another character very briefly broke character so he could teach me how to sit in a chair. That conversation showed that both I saw and he saw those actions as aggression, and the conversation in the interrogation room backs up my claims that I honestly don't know what I am doing yet.
I get that I was clearly wrong in my actions against the detective. I also didn't realize he was going to die as a result of the assault.
Again I am not trying to lie, at this point I am just trying to get across to you all that I am not doing so. I just want to be able to play this cool game on a cool station, but clearly I need to learn more before that should be allowed.

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:04 am**

You need to take a good, hard look at our rules before coming to play on the server again. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

I'm going to shorten this to a 3 day ban since this is your first offense, so your ban should expire sometime tomorrow. But in the future, do not think any measure of roleplaying or in-game justification can allow you to get away with breaking our rules if it was deemed especially overzealous or poorly justified when trying to escalate. This is also a matter of attempting to kill or main security for doing their job, which is a strict 'no'. Nothing that happened to you would ever make what you did kosher. If you have any confusion about this in the future, ask an administrator if you can get the go-ahead.

A headmin can of course rule otherwise.

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:59 pm**

I appreciate the opportunity and will make sure not to squander it. I again want to apologize to everyone involved for my lack of experience and rule knowledge that led to the incidents that occured. I hope that we can have fun together soon in the future.

Posted: **Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:44 pm**

We assume these things go without saying, but I'll reiterate here: Being stunned is not the same as being assaulted. You can CHOOSE to try to break someone out of jail or any other illicit activity, but when security comes knocking on your door for doing so don't think that gives you right to outright kill them.

/tg/Station 13

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