/tg/Station 13

Just had a round (which will not be named) with an individual (who will not be named) that got a Wizard roll.

They proceeded to get a slaughter demon bottle, use it, mindswap with the slaughter demon, and proceed to massacre the entire station in their OP new body with fireball and other spells.

Now this isn't an ided post, what I'm more concerned about is the fact that someone deliberately summoned someone for an antag role just to mindswap with and then kill them. I believe this goes completely against rule 1 of our server and is a total DICK MOVE. When I asked an experienced admin about it, I was told that there isn't an official ruling on it and thus they weren't going to touch it, so here we are.

What do you think? Regardless of this specific instance, of course; is giving someone an antag role just to immediately murder them and deny it a big enough dick move to make it against the rules?

Wizards are antags, summoning other antags who are not aligned to them is a large part of their portfolio, slaughter demons have an objective to murder the wizard, this was a creative use of game mechanics and this is absolutely an ides post

Seems like rule 4 applies here.

Antag can do what they want. They're not a team antag. Sucks for whoever the demon was but that's the game, sometimes you die, sometimes its unavoidable.

Also demons have an objective to kill the wizard too so they're kind of pitted against each other.

Personally I think because the slaughter demon isn't even an ally of the wizard, it shouldn't have have protections whatsoever from the wizard killing it. Because the wizard can be killed by the slaughter demon.

That said, a fireball flinging demon is fucking busted as shit and shouldn't be a thing anyway. We removed holoparasite mindswap for much the same reason. Near untouchable infinite blood jaunting fireball flinging gib monsters is too much even for wizard.

I agree with the idea that wizards should be able to do whatever when it comes to non-allied antags, but to me the idea of giving someone an antag roll just to immediately kill them without any grace period so you can have epic busted loot seems wrong to me. Apparently demons start out blood jaunted so they don't HAVE to engage the wizard immediately (which I didn't know, thanks Kang). I'd still like to have the discussion in case something similar comes up in the future (and also to see i how busted people think mindswap really is).

John_Gobbel wrote:I agree with the idea that wizards should be able to do whatever when it comes to non-allied antags, but to me the idea of giving someone an antag roll just to immediately kill them without any grace period so you can have epic busted loot seems wrong to me. Apparently demons start out blood jaunted so they don't HAVE to engage the wizard immediately (which I didn't know, thanks Kang). I'd still like to have the discussion in case something similar comes up in the future (and also to see i how busted people think mindswap really is).

Sounds like the problem could easily be solved by code solutions rather than policy changes by making mindswap not work on slaughter demons. That seems like unintentional behavior in the first place.

John_Gobbel wrote:Now this isn't an ided post, what I'm more concerned about is the fact that someone deliberately summoned someone for an antag role just to mindswap with and then kill them. I believe this goes completely against rule 1 of our server and is a total DICK MOVE.

Are you sure this isn't an i ded post? Nothing the wizard did here broke any rules, and in fact it seems pretty clever. Rule 1 definetly doesn't work that way.

I don't think this is a pure ided post, since I can definitely see why someone would think it's a rule 1 violation.

Actually, if anything, it feels like this would fall under the same sort of rules as camping arrivals, if it's the round I'm thinking of. You'd just spawn in as a slaughter demon, and get mindswapped before you can even really react? That's pretty shitty.

smart wizard, deserves a positive note

Rule 4. If there's an issue with the way slaughter demons spawn in that makes this overly easy then that's a coding issue really.

deedubya wrote:I don't think this is a pure ided post, since I can definitely see why someone would think it's a rule 1 violation.

"Anything that inconveniences me is being a dick"

they weren't the demon, but they did play the round and die to the wizard and it's other demons and salt about it

draw your own conclusions

antag rep doesn't exist anymore on the server so it doesn't really hurt the player in question at all. antag is free to explore mechanics however they want and thats the beauty of this server.

however yeah that's busted as shit and now that it's pretty much known probably shouldn't exist at all.

wizards aren't demon's allies, demons fault for trusting them (which they usually do), but i find it hard to mindswap the demon to be honest if they are smart to not collaborate with the wizard, technically the demon is still antag even in the wizards body. they just have no big claws and anti stun. sure its probably a dick move but there's the antag rule.

the wizard is also the one who summoned the demons. they can pretty much freely use their spells in any way.

It's pretty bs to become a slaughter demon with spells, but that is a code issue.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

deedubya wrote:I don't think this is a pure ided post, since I can definitely see why someone would think it's a rule 1 violation.

"Anything that inconveniences me is being a dick"

Spawning in a ghost role with the sole intention of immediately murdering them is definitely a dick move.

emergent gameplay

rule 4, enough said
these baby players go on to become hugbox admins and make terrible bans and policy, really sad

deedubya wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

deedubya wrote:I don't think this is a pure ided post, since I can definitely see why someone would think it's a rule 1 violation.

"Anything that inconveniences me is being a dick"

Spawning in a ghost role with the sole intention of immediately murdering them is definitely a dick move.

oranges wrote:they weren't the demon, but they did play the round and die to the wizard and it's other demons and salt about it

draw your own conclusions

deedubya wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

deedubya wrote:I don't think this is a pure ided post, since I can definitely see why someone would think it's a rule 1 violation.

"Anything that inconveniences me is being a dick"

Spawning in a ghost role with the sole intention of immediately murdering them is definitely a dick move.

Everything antags do is "A dick move".

This is more of a code issue.

Nevertheless. Getting spawned in as a antagonist, and then dying before you've even had a chance to even react, is poor form.

But, considering its a secondary antag and the player was only spawned for a few seconds, it makes it more a grey issue.

wizard demons all start in blood crawl and have to actively hunt the wizard in order for something like this to happen. Plus, mindswap has always been a cancerous spell that has turned an already shitty antag mode into even more unfun shit show. People have already brought up rule 4 regarding wizard and demons both being lone antags. Basically, the demon bit off more than he could chew and got salty when he lost his grief powers. I know the OP wasn't said demon, but he made this thread on his behalf while also not knowing how demons were spawned.

"remove mindswap" does seem to be a pretty common sentiment in the community that I'm inclined to agree with. Why do we need to turn wizard rounds into changeling rounds?

That is a code solution rather than a policy one, though.

deedubya wrote:"remove mindswap" does seem to be a pretty common sentiment in the community that I'm inclined to agree with. Why do we need to turn wizard rounds into changeling rounds?

That is a code solution rather than a policy one, though.

either remove it or make it a robed spell and not a get out of fuck up free card.

I'll be honest i cracked up reading this. That was some clever bullshit. I think though it should be a code solution since while its a dick move, Rule 4.