/tg/Station 13

Really fucking pissed off about this verdict.

Even more fucking pissed off about the reactions to it.

But what pisses me the most off is that the question was not whether Darren Wilson murdered Mike Brown, but whether Mike deserved it.

E: Goes without saying, but keep it civil in here. - V

Sounds like exactly what happened in the UK a few years back: Police shoot black dude in an area with high racial tensions, they explode into riots, the vast majority of participants using it as an excuse to loot shit or break stuff. It just makes everybody look bad and brings our nation back a few steps. I can't really comment on the verdict of the UK guy's death by police, only evidence I could ever have known was the limited amount given out by the media. I feel the same way about Michael Brown's death really.

So is this thread going to serve as the litmus test of who's a shitty person in our community?

only if you take things like this more seriously than elections

If it becomes impossible to get your voice heard, then the only option is to burn shit till the world listens. I support the protesters.

Steelpoint wrote:

Typing this reply with a ten foot pole.

Comrade Leo wrote:If it becomes impossible to get your voice heard, then the only option is to burn shit till the world listens. I support the protesters.

I agree that violence and civl unrest is effective in making an unknown issue, known. I think the problem in this scenario is that people were already talking about Ferguson months back, and racism being known in America is not exactly new. Beyond anger at the kid's death and yesterday's ruling, I'm not really sure what the protesters want. They can voice disagreement over what happened, but the law is not going to turn over a jury's verdict based on riots. I also think smashing up local businesses becaue you disagree with a jury, or an ill in society, is a really ugly precedent for a constructive society. Would you be so willing to agree and side with them if it was your business? What if it was your home?

Also, as a side point, black communities are often on the receiving end of racism, for sure, based on an image of them being lawless and violent. I don't think a riot is really going to help get away from that prejudice. I get that white communities that have had riots aren't subject to the same marginalisation, but fitting the stereotype is definitely not going to solve the problem.

Personally, I think if we can learn anything from the Ferguson incident, and the recent shooting in Cleveland, is that police bodycams should be more prevalent or mandatory.

QuartzCrystal wrote:So is this thread going to serve as the litmus test of who's a shitty person in our community?

Depends on if by shitty you mean people that hate niggers for being niggers.

>American cops
>Being able to shoot straight enough to kill

Now that's just unlikely, it was probably a mistake

Sec officers can be pretty damn good shots. Some people spam like mad but it is much like aiming a skill shot in DOTA or LoL, you break up the way people move into lines pointing away from you and aim past your target rather than at them.

It is true though in general sec officers are more focused on stopping real dangerous people and protecting their community than the police in most parts of america. Which is fucked up because SS13 sec has a fucking gulag.

this threads gonna be shit

but it will be interesting to read this thread if only for the shocking revelations!!!1 of which people on this forum are children incapable of having an argument without devolving to shitslinging aka the same users we already know are basically retarded

     .

>shooting the leg
I'll take "what is the femoral artery" for 5000, Alex

I'll also take why cant American cops aim for shit, for the bonus round

What the heck has the artery got to do with it? It's all about the size of the target and a chest is much bigger than a leg, especially front on.

oranges wrote:What the heck has the artery got to do with it? It's all about the size of the target and a chest is much bigger than a leg, especially front on.

I think what he meant is
Even if they shot the legs

That would still fuck up people they hit there pretty badly

Malkevin wrote:>shooting the leg
I'll take "what is the femoral artery" for 5000, Alex

I'll also take why cant American cops aim for shit, for the bonus round

Intigracy wrote:
Also, cops are taught shoot to kill. Anyone who ever tries bringing up the argument "but why didn't you shoot him in the legs!!!" is dumb, they don't aim for the legs because it's a smaller target and in a high intensity situation you want to be able to get the person you're shooting at down.

most cops either do not know or give a shit about strategic locations for shit like this; most (at least in the NYPD) are trained to aim for centre of mass in silhouette training even though it's been proven as ineffective. shooting in the leg would be disastrous anyway; you can make the argument DW was stupid for not using a taser, and you can certainly point out he has some explaining to do for justifying his not carrying a taser because of "it wasn't comfortable", but... whatever.


in general i was really only going to make one or two posts about how i am obviously holier-than-thou and superior for not participating in this discussion like the rest of the heathens but i know that doing that would be dishonest and disingenuous to how i actually feel.

i’m literally the last human on Earth to advocate for trial by media or trial by mob. i would go so far as to say that the mainstream media is partially to blame for goading the crowds and protests into the sort of powder-keg that results in riots and looting. it's good primetime news for shit like this to happen, and it's an easy way to get an award for "journalistic reporting" when the media starts showing their investigative 20/20 primetime news segments about how it's time to have "a serious discussion about race in america" when it's the same media that pushed a ridiculous simplistic race war narrative to undermine the legitimate concerns that the black (and minority at large) community has with the modern police industry. and i suppose it is partially the far of the rioters for buying into it so easily, but resistance is valid. but do we criticize the methods of doing so? absolutely.

property destruction does not win the hearts and minds of the public, and even if you're some kind of past-teenage-years anarchist with a boner for smashing storefront windows and sticking it to the man, you'd be hard-pressed to suggest that last night's events contributed to any sort of "propaganda of the deed". all it did was probably alienate white/conservative america even further than they already have. and also there were probably just some idiots in the crowd that were going to regardless regardless of the decision, because there are always people, black or white, that will riot over dumb shit. pumpkins, sports wins/losses, surf contests, what the fuck ever. at least go after the police department or banks or some of that shit.

this: the shooting, the decision, the riots- changes nothing. time's a flat circle. this will happen again.

nothing changes, and it is not a surprise that nothing changes. i'll be the first one to tell you last night's events will not start any sort of existential shift in the racial consciousness, or whatever big academic words the SJW academic types will want to say. I'm black. My father came here from the Ivory Coast. He knew this. I know this. My mother's father was mixed, born in the 1920s in fucking New England, it is a miracle he or his father didn't get lynched. He absolutely fucking knows this, he was there at the start. This is how the song and dance number has gone for years. Black men are born in it and die in it not knowing anything else. I don't know anything else. people will get pissed, they'll act out and flip their shit, and everyone else will just go, "well why don't you do something about black on black violence instead of blah blah" like there haven't been national and regional and city-by-city initiatives to do just that or like that change will happen overnight. so until then i do what i can.

what i can: be myself to the best of my ability. when the time comes (and even though right now even the idea of one day having kids is fucking terrifying) i will raise my kids to be smart, know your laws, be respectful to everyone, especially respectful law enforcement even when you know they're full of shit, pull up your pants, etc. even though i know unfortunately all it really takes is him getting pulled over by the wrong cop on the wrong day at the same rate he'll end up getting potentially shot at by the wrong black guy at the wrong corner. i will tolerate this even though my children will be next, and i know that maybe he's not even going to have stolen cigarillos or try to reach for a cop's gun, maybe he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time like oscar grant, and maybe that's just it, but it won't matter, since he's in the ground and he'll probably have his character posthumously assassinated as justification for the shooting. maybe i'm overly pessimistic about this decision or the reaction, but that's how i feel. It’s the most blind and borderline-retarded thing on the planet to presume you can’t find yourself in one of those places. And it’s roughly the most ignorant thing on the planet to walk through life presuming those institutions get it right every time. But I'll accept the decision because what else can I do?

i will tolerate it. because i have to be the voice of reason, the moderate non-extremist, the 'respectable' black man even though i'm just trying to be myself and the way i was raged. because even though i don't ask for it, you inadvertently put yourself in the "voice of all black people" situation. there's no president or voice of all black people no matter how much al sharpton's sellout tax-evading race baiting no-help fuck ass tries to prove otherwise. so i am pretty careful with what i'm saying - notice how i haven't even gone into my opinion on whether or not the ruling was justified or not? clearly from the reaction to the decision there's a great deal of people that believe that the jury tried to “base an indictment solely on the facts”. Many people believe that did not happen. It's not that simple. Nothing in this situation is. At the very least anyone coming to a snap "darren wilson was justified/not justified" decision is not helping.

now that i've said it i guess malkevin can call me a nigger or paprika can go say i'm taking things too seriously or everyone else can post ape escape gifs or whatever, it's whatever, my 'serious post' mode is done, i have a shitpost quota to fill:

You ever have to wait in line to take a shit so fucking long you don’t even have to shit anymore

[youtube]iau-e6HfOg0[/youtube]
Apparently embedding is broke:

oranges wrote:What the heck has the artery got to do with it? It's all about the size of the target and a chest is much bigger than a leg, especially front on.

Shot Artery = massive blood loss with a side serving of low blood pressure.
"less than lethal" locations are still, surprise surprise, lethal if it hits an artery.

do you really think that darren wilson could have stopped michael brown without a gun? brown is up his weight class

QuartzCrystal wrote:So is this thread going to serve as the litmus test of who's a shitty person in our community?

lovin' this post by one of our admins
don't you mute and ban because of people's opinions?

Brown was 6'6 292 pounds, Wilson was 6'4 209 pounds. I would have shot to kill any man or woman of any color that height or weight coming towards me.

Do you think Wilson actually wanted to kill a kid that day? Do you really think Wilson is enjoying the fact he probably can't live in Missouri, or anywhere without fear of his life? His career is over.

A sad day, truly, the police force has lost a man of true value to the retard "didn do nuffin" masses.

nsos is smarter than all of us

Skorvold wrote:Do you really think Wilson is enjoying the fact he probably can't live in Missouri, or anywhere without fear of his life? His career is over.

Darren Wilson's career is over.

Michael Brown's life is over.

Skorvold wrote:nsos is smarter than all of us

He listens to SPK let's not get carried away here

I took part in the London protests and was there during the riots. Seeing how people behaved there it's hard not to think that human nature can only be bundled up in societal constraint before bursting at the slightest opportunity. I saw people I know looting phone shops, hell I even joined in screaming at the riot cops, though after they started beating the shit out of people.

It's just hard to see this as anything but an endless cycle with no positive outcome.

On the bright side you get to watch hipsters and anons from 4chan streaming themselves getting the shit beat out of them and teargassed which is endlessly entertaining for some reason.

fleure wrote:

Skorvold wrote:nsos is smarter than all of us

He listens to SPK let's not get carried away here

i ride and die for spk from 1979-1983 everything they did after sucks dick

     .

Intigracy wrote:Wasn't there something about there being firing residue on Brown's hands?

If his hands were up then surely the gunfire could have caused that, unless it's only discharged behind. I dunno guns.

People actually thought Wilson was going to be indicted?

     .

Spacezenegger wrote:People actually thought Wilson was going to be indicted?

Not for a second. Even the prosecutor supported him.

Spacezenegger wrote:People actually thought Wilson was going to be indicted?

Eh. The optimist in me was hoping he'd at least go to court.

Didn't help that the jury had just enough white folks to clear the vote to not indict him. Kinda funny how that works, eh?

Tbh this whole thing has been a massive shitshow. We still have no idea exactly WHAT happened at the scene, I remember hearing at some point that the shop owner said Brown hadn't robbed him and then hearing the opposite, the cops decide to pull out their brand-new riot gear the moment they had an opportunity. Escalation happened and now these idiots are burning down stores and causing a full-on riot when even Brown's family is saying "yo wait what the fuck we don't want this".

And again, that whole thing about more than half of the jury being Caucasian. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

     .

>Cop shoots a criminal attacking him

How awful.

I don't care who you are, what color you are, where you are.
You aggress a cop and you get shot. End of story.

To be honest, this whole situation was fucked from the very start. Race, security, order, chaos all falling into a bucket that society is filling on its own.

Also why is everyone focusing on this?

THERES A PLAN FROM MALAYSIA THATS GONE MISSING

Vekter wrote:

Spacezenegger wrote:And again, that whole thing about more than half of the jury being Caucasian. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

You think that the jury was rigged to be white so that he wouldn't get indicted?

An0n3 wrote:I don't care who you are, what color you are, where you are.
You aggress a cop and you get shot. End of story.

^
people trying to blame race on this whole thing are looking at the wrong thing
he went for the cop's gun. that's the evidence. if you want to say that the jury made shit up or cherrypicked evidence and your only support for that claim is that the majority of said jury was white, i dont know what to tell you.
unlike what the media wants you to think, not all white people are racist assholes who think black people should be shot for stupid reasons

Donk Honk wrote:To be honest, this whole situation was fucked from the very start. Race, security, order, chaos all falling into a bucket that society is filling on its own.

Also why is everyone focusing on this?

THERES A PLAN FROM MALAYSIA THATS GONE MISSING

Oceanic flight 815. Sorry I've been watching Lost recently.

Irrespective of race, if you rush to attack a police officer, especially when your larger and bigger than them, don't act surprised when said officer fires on you.

I took some time to read the court notes, the evidence presented (from the investigation) backed up the officer's testimony that Brown rushed the officer and tried to reach for his gun. Not to mention there is surveillance footage showing Brown stealing 50$ worth of cigars at a local store a few minutes prior to the altercation.

When it come's to criminal cases, you have to present enough evidence to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that the defendant (officer) is guilty. You can't go in thinking he "might have done it" or there's a 50/50 chance he did. It's clear in this case there is insufficient evidence to support the officer being in the wrong and far more evidence saying his actions were justified.

It's just a bad situation all around.

Maybe the jury was mostly white because the population of the United States is mostly white.

I don't think it's fair to Brown to bring up the facebook pictures of the gang signs and pistols, to talk about something he did earlier that day, etc.

But it's no less unfair to automatically assume the White cop shot the Black kid just because he was Black.
White cops shoot White people when the situation calls for it.
Black cops shoot White people when the situation calls for it.
Our media is just much much better at making sure everyone hears about every instance of White on Black violence.

That's not to say that racism doesn't exist. Holy fuck, it does. It totally does. But it's much more insidious and social. It's in the hearts of people who hear something like this and immediately assume the White guy did it because the Black guy was Black. No matter what color the person who is that is making that assumption, that's racism.

An0n3 wrote: I don't think it's fair to Brown to bring up the facebook pictures of the gang signs and pistols, to talk about something he did earlier that day, etc.

I was referring to this video I found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkOfqIXkBRE

It is fair because it helps establish context, it's the difference between a one off event and a string of criminal activity.

Steelpoint wrote:

An0n3 wrote: I don't think it's fair to Brown to bring up the facebook pictures of the gang signs and pistols, to talk about something he did earlier that day, etc.

I was referring to this video I found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkOfqIXkBRE

It is fair because it helps establish context, it's the difference between a one off event and a string of criminal activity.

Establishing the character of the victim/accused is admissible in court.

If it was a video of him physically assaulting someone beyond a shove it would seem more relevant to me.

He doesn't stop and beat the guy who confronts him, he just brushes him off and leaves. While it does demonstrate Brown as a person who isn't afraid to use his size to get his way it doesn't show him taking someone down and beating them like the officer described.

Either way you look at it, this is the best argument thus far as to why police officers should be wearing cameras on their person to record whatever is happening.

     .

Not only is it dam hard to indict a police officer, it's even harder to slam a white police officer.

They could has squashed this instantly if missouri had a stand your ground law given the fact a gun shot happened from within the squad car. But then again blerb blah witnesses said he did/didn't tried to shanghaied his gun from inside the car.

Steelpoint wrote:Either way you look at it, this is the best argument thus far as to why police officers should be wearing cameras on their person to record whatever is happening.

The irony in this is there was a cop show I think on FOX that had police officers had portable camera via ear piece. I was actually going to do something similar when I take on armed contacts.
(Skip to 4:00 for the wrath of the golden bolt)

It's odd, I think it's easier for people to believe that everyone is good deep down except for people who are pure evil like comic book villains or some shit. Violence never solves anything, that everything could be talked out or there's a compromise blah blah blah.

They want to believe everything is fueled by racism because it makes the problem simpler. If only we didn't have such racist police officers shooting unarmed people nobody would ever do the crimes or whatever. If only people could stop being racist all the problems would go away.

It's a harder problem to admit that economic disparity, social disparity, depression, frustration, and just raw animal hate exist. There's no quick fix for that shit. The fairy-tale fight of good vs. evil is all fucked up when you put that on the table.

No, it had to be fueled by racism because the alternative is too hard to swallow.