/tg/Station 13

Sometimes as Quartermaster I wish there was a way to wield more control over order authorizations.
Curently;

* Any cargo tech can authorize orders

I propose

* Any cargo tech can authorize orders
* A button exists in the quartermaster's office that can be activated via the QM ID, which will turn on required quartermaster authorizations for all orders.
- The quartermaster can then authorize from his console and it will blink or some shit when an order is available


thoughts??????

Did your cargo techs forget to order yellow gloves again?

How about instead of this, a way to toggle on QM authorization for sending/recieving the shuttle so the QM can make sure the right shit is ordered before the shuttle comes.

paprika wrote:Did your cargo techs forget to order yellow gloves again?

How about instead of this, a way to toggle on QM authorization for sending/recieving the shuttle so the QM can make sure the right shit is ordered before the shuttle comes.

Unfortunately, there's no way to un-order things that should not have been ordered. There are a few cases where even if the QM is attentive and catches a tech ordering stupid shit or things they shouldn't have anyway (weapons crates, etc) there's no way to undo the damage. At best this would allow you to stop the shuttle but it wouldn't really change anything. The points are gone and whatever the tech authorized is inbound eventually.

Perhaps you could send the crates back as they are for a full refund within a certain time limit.

How about a special RETURN TO SENDER stamp for the QM.

He stamps the crate manifest, loads all the items that came with the crate, then ships it back for a % refund. Nanotrasen still docks off some points for wasting their time.

Mite b cool

How would that work with locked crates?

fleure wrote:How would that work with locked crates?

Maybe you can just stamp the crate itself? Or it could work like a "return to sender" package wrap or something. A "cancel order" button (QM locked) would be great though.

QM definitely needs more shit to stamp.

That would make cargo techs assistants with all access. Literally, because absolutely anyone can request stuff from cargo, approving it is the only thing that separates cargo tech from all others.

Well, they have mining access too, but I agree, although giving QM more power usually results in arguments over just how much of a head role it really is.

If QM had more stamping and unnecessary bureaucracy like HoP I would totally play it more.

Violaceus wrote:What separates QM and cargo techs?

Sunglasses?


I am against taking authorization from techs, but there should be something that only QM can do...

Access. Authority.

Stickymayhem wrote:If QM had more stamping and unnecessary bureaucracy like HoP I would totally play it more.

You can have stamping as anybody and QM has more of it than HoP does.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:That would make cargo techs assistants with all access. Literally, because absolutely anyone can request stuff from cargo, approving it is the only thing that separates cargo tech from all others.

You're going to have to explain this. It doesn't follow from anything previously mentioned in the thread.

cedarbridge wrote:Unfortunately, there's no way to un-order things that should not have been ordered. There are a few cases where even if the QM is attentive and catches a tech ordering stupid shit or things they shouldn't have anyway (weapons crates, etc) there's no way to undo the damage. At best this would allow you to stop the shuttle but it wouldn't really change anything. The points are gone and whatever the tech authorized is inbound eventually.

>Implying that QMs aren't the ones leading the gaggles of monkeys into hoarding the points for shit for themselves

Stickymayhem wrote:If QM had more stamping and unnecessary bureaucracy like HoP I would totally play it more.

>Implying QMs or HoPs even bother with paperwork anymore.

Violaceus wrote:>anymore

lol

The easiest way to make sure nobody ever asks cargo for anything is to require paperwork.

cedarbridge wrote:

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:That would make cargo techs assistants with all access. Literally, because absolutely anyone can request stuff from cargo, approving it is the only thing that separates cargo tech from all others.

You're going to have to explain this. It doesn't follow from anything previously mentioned in the thread.

Uh, obviously I meant to say "more access".

If only QM can authorize crates, then cargo techs can only fiddle with MULEs, drag around crates and print tools from autolathe. Becoming useless, essentially.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:That would make cargo techs assistants with all access. Literally, because absolutely anyone can request stuff from cargo, approving it is the only thing that separates cargo tech from all others.

You're going to have to explain this. It doesn't follow from anything previously mentioned in the thread.

Uh, obviously I meant to say "more access".

If only QM can authorize crates, then cargo techs can only fiddle with MULEs, drag around crates and print tools from autolathe. Becoming useless, essentially.

They're meant to work under the direction of the QM anyway so I don't see this as a major issue. As is now, the techs can do whatever the fuck they want with functionally zero input from the QM. As you say, this makes him a tech with more access. So, do we remove the QM or do we make the techs actually have to interact with them and spend more time actually processing the orders and less time authorizing them. You realize that "fiddling with mules, drag(ing) around crates and print(ing) tools" is kinda what a tech does right? Their job is not defined by the ability to authorize a crate to be shipped to the station. They receive and ship orders. That's what they do. The QM directs what is ordered, received and sent back to Central. So I'm not seeing how a tech not being able to hit the currently pointless "authorize order" button would make them "useless" after you literally listed off most of the other obvious shit cargo does without the console.

The only major difference that the QM has over the techs is his ability to open the fucking mining doors and his own office, which has the exact same fucking functions as the cargo desk save for the useless mining cameras.

It's quite honestly, a useless role in and of itself that needs a go over, I'm all in favor of a authorization button.

This shouldn't be too hard to do, yet also make the fact that the Quartermaster is the boss of the Cargo techs more clear if the QM enables it.
So DO WANT.

I don't think an extra or private console is needed. How about:

* Button on cargo consoles
* Defaults to off
* Only QM can toggle it
* When the button is "on", only the QM can authorize orders
* The on/off state and effect of the button is global for all cargo consoles

y/n?

fleure wrote:I don't think an extra or private console is needed. How about:

* Button on cargo consoles
* Defaults to off
* Only QM can toggle it
* When the button is "on", only the QM can authorize orders
* The on/off state and effect of the button is global for all cargo consoles

y/n?

This is actually pretty ok. Though make sure its locked to "QM and above" so the HoP also maintains his access to it (without adding extra access to himself which he will anyway but muh reasonable expectations)

It would probably be tied to qm access code anyway

cedarbridge wrote:They're meant to work under the direction of the QM anyway so I don't see this as a major issue. As is now, the techs can do whatever the fuck they want with functionally zero input from the QM.

So, do you want RD to have "turn off R&D for scientists" button as well? Because they can, oh my gosh, fuck with it? Boy, we should really prevent anyone from interacting with their job machinery, because they can fuck with it.

cedarbridge wrote:As you say, this makes him a tech with more access. So, do we remove the QM or do we make the techs actually have to interact with them and spend more time actually processing the orders and less time authorizing them.

Neither? What's the reason for this anyway?

cedarbridge wrote:You realize that "fiddling with mules, drag(ing) around crates and print(ing) tools" is kinda what a tech does right?

No? Without the ability to order crates it's mindless work that is dependent on someone actually ordering something. Or you can just fuck off riding mules.

cedarbridge wrote:currently pointless "authorize order"

Do you actually play cargo? Cargo techs authorize requests that people make through the console available in front of cargo. Literally anyone can request a crate. It's the only thing that separates cargo techs from assistants besides a little bit of access.

This is the second dumbest restriction after HoP one, the restriction that only restricts people who actually try to do their job instead of fucking off, therefore promoting said fucking off and being useless.

We don't need two slots worth of jobs JUST to haul crates around.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:They're meant to work under the direction of the QM anyway so I don't see this as a major issue. As is now, the techs can do whatever the fuck they want with functionally zero input from the QM.

So, do you want RD to have "turn off R&D for scientists" button as well? Because they can, oh my gosh, fuck with it? Boy, we should really prevent anyone from interacting with their job machinery, because they can fuck with it.

This already exists.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:As you say, this makes him a tech with more access. So, do we remove the QM or do we make the techs actually have to interact with them and spend more time actually processing the orders and less time authorizing them.

Neither? What's the reason for this anyway?

By your own admission the QM is a pointless job with no function.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:You realize that "fiddling with mules, drag(ing) around crates and print(ing) tools" is kinda what a tech does right?

No? Without the ability to order crates it's mindless work that is dependent on someone actually ordering something. Or you can just fuck off riding mules.

Your own lack of creativity is not anyone else's fault. If the only function you think a cargo tech has is pushing a button on a crate request console, you really need to reevaluate what it is cargo actually does.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:currently pointless "authorize order"

Do you actually play cargo? Cargo techs authorize requests that people make through the console available in front of cargo. Literally anyone can request a crate. It's the only thing that separates cargo techs from assistants besides a little bit of access.

With this same logic, everything on the station is "an assistant with a bit of extra access. Scientists are just assistants with access to the science department. Engineers are just assistants with access to the engineering department. The captain is just an assistant with all access (well actually...) Yes, I do play cargo and I could go an entire shift without needing to personally request and authorize my own crates. That's what makes the button functionally useless as a restriction. Its what started this conversation in the first place. Techs ordering shit that they shouldn't be ordering in the first place and the QM having no ability to control that influx of unwanted or unneeded crates. So yes, the guy in charge of cargo should be the one authorizing the crates and not the guys literally in charge of shipping and managing the orders.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:This is the second dumbest restriction after HoP one, the restriction that only restricts people who actually try to do their job instead of fucking off, therefore promoting said fucking off and being useless.

We don't need two slots worth of jobs JUST to haul crates around.

You need to make up your mind what you think cargo is actually supposed to be doing. On one hand you list off half a dozen things that cargo does but then backtrack and whine that cargo is only good if you have unrestricted access to crate ordering. We don't need three job slots to push a button on one console.

cedarbridge wrote:This already exists.

I know of no such thing.

cedarbridge wrote:By your own admission the QM is a pointless job with no function.

It's not even a strawman or anything that people like to bring up these days, it's just purely false.

Also, job being useless is not a reason for its removal.

cedarbridge wrote:With this same logic, everything on the station is "an assistant with a bit of extra access. Scientists are just assistants with access to the science department. Engineers are just assistants with access to the engineering department. The captain is just an assistant with all access (well actually...) Yes, I do play cargo and I could go an entire shift without needing to personally request and authorize my own crates. That's what makes the button functionally useless as a restriction. Its what started this conversation in the first place. Techs ordering shit that they shouldn't be ordering in the first place and the QM having no ability to control that influx of unwanted or unneeded crates. So yes, the guy in charge of cargo should be the one authorizing the crates and not the guys literally in charge of shipping and managing the orders.

Er, I was JUST making a comparison to R&D and that yes, scientist would be just an assistant with a little more access if he had no way to do his science work (be that R&D, toxins or anything else). Same thing happens here if you take away ordering crates.

cedarbridge wrote:Techs ordering shit that they shouldn't be ordering in the first place

Says who?

cedarbridge wrote:You need to make up your mind what you think cargo is actually supposed to be doing. On one hand you list off half a dozen things that cargo does but then backtrack and whine that cargo is only good if you have unrestricted access to crate ordering. We don't need three job slots to push a button on one console.

Oh Lord, what a chore it is to argue with you. Why do I have to explain obvious things? It doesn't matter how many things I list if all of them are useless and aren't actual work. It's like having a job that needs to draw 1000 different pictures and words on the floor. ...why do I have to explain this to you like you're five years old?

cedarbridge wrote:Your own lack of creativity is not anyone else's fault. If the only function you think a cargo tech has is pushing a button on a crate request console, you really need to reevaluate what it is cargo actually does.

I guess that's because you argue for the sake of arguing and not to find an optimal solution. I mean, why do I have to guess what exactly do you mean each time?

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:By your own admission the QM is a pointless job with no function.

It's not even a strawman or anything that people like to bring up these days, it's just purely false.

Which you demonstrated by...saying it. Well, that's convincing. Its like you didn't bother to read the thread or the proposed change and just jumped into it to complain about what you think is the "point" of cargo. Currently, techs can spend a finite number of points on a list of different items without any real oversight by the QM. If he has no means of control over that function, he thus serves no purpose. He's a cargo tech with access to mining.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Also, job being useless is not a reason for its removal.

It really is. If a job has no purpose, it has no reason to clutter up the job lists. If he's just a cargo tech, add another cargo tech slot.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Er, I was JUST making a comparison to R&D and that yes, scientist would be just an assistant with a little more access if he had no way to do his science work (be that R&D, toxins or anything else). Same thing happens here if you take away ordering crates.

If you removed crate ordering entirely and just sent random shit to the station every 2 minutes based on numbers of crates loaded onto the shuttle, cargo techs would still have a job and would still have plenty to keep occupied for the duration of a normal round. We've been over this already. A cargo tech's entire job is not bound to sitting at a console and pushing a button.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Techs ordering shit that they shouldn't be ordering in the first place

Says who?

Oh right, we've already decided the QM is a useless job. Unless he's really not and he's actually supposed to have control of his department and control over those crates that are brought onto the station. That is his job right? That's what this thread is about right? Giving him a tool to better do HIS job.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:You need to make up your mind what you think cargo is actually supposed to be doing. On one hand you list off half a dozen things that cargo does but then backtrack and whine that cargo is only good if you have unrestricted access to crate ordering. We don't need three job slots to push a button on one console.

Oh Lord, what a chore it is to argue with you. Why do I have to explain obvious things? It doesn't matter how many things I list if all of them are useless and aren't actual work. It's like having a job that needs to draw 1000 different pictures and words on the floor. ...why do I have to explain this to you like you're five years old?

Its a chore for you because I'm asking you to defend a position and you keep shifting it. Your definition of "real work" is something I'm waiting to hear now too. Since apparently those other things listed that cargo does to occupy their time when not pushing a button on a console are not "real work." The quartermaster having control on what is and is not brought in on the shuttle will change the average cargo tech's job not at all. They'll still be pushing crates and shipping arrivals. They'll still be printing tools and handing out gloves. If you cannot form a coherent response, you have no business "explaining...like you're five years old." Especially if I have to repeat myself more than once for simple responses.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Your own lack of creativity is not anyone else's fault. If the only function you think a cargo tech has is pushing a button on a crate request console, you really need to reevaluate what it is cargo actually does.

I guess that's because you argue for the sake of arguing and not to find an optimal solution. I mean, why do I have to guess what exactly do you mean each time?

Cute ad hom I guess.


It really boils down to who runs cargo. If the QM runs cargo, the QM should have ultimate control over the crates coming and going from cargo. To have that control, the QM needs a tool (return to sender, order reject/revoke, etc.) If the QM doesn't run cargo and he's just a guy with a silly suit and access to mining that he'll never use, then there's no reason to have him over another cargo tech. That's really all there is to it.

cedarbridge wrote:

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:By your own admission the QM is a pointless job with no function.

It's not even a strawman or anything that people like to bring up these days, it's just purely false.

Which you demonstrated by...saying it. Well, that's convincing.

You made the claim (that I admitted that QM is pointless), the burden of proof is on you.

cedarbridge wrote:Its like you didn't bother to read the thread or the proposed change and just jumped into it to complain about what you think is the "point" of cargo.

What exactly do you think I missed in this thread that is relevant to this?

cedarbridge wrote:Currently, techs can spend a finite number of points on a list of different items without any real oversight by the QM.

This applies to any department and any job.

cedarbridge wrote:If he has no means of control over that function, he thus serves no purpose. He's a cargo tech with access to mining.

QM's purpose is to link mining to cargo. In perfect world miners drop their shit and QM distributes it over departments. We don't live in perfect world, so that usually never happens. So yes, in practice QM is often a cargo tech with access to mining.

You still haven't provided a reason to remove QM.

cedarbridge wrote:

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Also, job being useless is not a reason for its removal.

It really is. If a job has no purpose, it has no reason to clutter up the job lists. If he's just a cargo tech, add another cargo tech slot.

>saying that the problem is cluttering job lists.
Yeah I'm not even gonna comment on that. I guess I'll say that action, be it nerf, buff, adding content, removing content, needs to have a reason to be done. Inaction doesn't.

cedarbridge wrote:If you removed crate ordering entirely and just sent random shit to the station every 2 minutes based on numbers of crates loaded onto the shuttle, cargo techs would still have a job and would still have plenty to keep occupied for the duration of a normal round. We've been over this already. A cargo tech's entire job is not bound to sitting at a console and pushing a button.

Dragging crates doesn't require two fucking people doing it whole round. I thought you were concerned about cluttering job lists?

Unless you have other duties in mind, of course. That would require two people doing them for a round.

cedarbridge wrote:Oh right, we've already decided the QM is a useless job. Unless he's really not and he's actually supposed to have control of his department and control over those crates that are brought onto the station. That is his job right? That's what this thread is about right? Giving him a tool to better do HIS job.

You want to make one person in charge of ordering things instead of three, and call that better tools?

cedarbridge wrote:Since apparently those other things listed that cargo does to occupy their time when not pushing a button on a console are not "real work."

cedarbridge wrote:pushing crates

Yes, I hardly think that pushing crates requires two full time job slots. Indeed, printing tools also.

cedarbridge wrote:Cute ad hom I guess.

#rekt I guess.

cedarbridge wrote:It really boils down to who runs cargo. If the QM runs cargo, the QM should have ultimate control over the crates coming and going from cargo. To have that control, the QM needs a tool (return to sender, order reject/revoke, etc.) If the QM doesn't run cargo and he's just a guy with a silly suit and access to mining that he'll never use, then there's no reason to have him over another cargo tech. That's really all there is to it.

It really boils down to you wanting to remove jobs that you think are useless because you think that is reason enough to remove content.

Violaceus wrote:You forget the answer in which you explain what you had in mind saying that RD can block scientists..

The R&D console has a console lock. Its really that simple.

Violaceus wrote:Yes, and this console can be unlocked by any scientist.

Where is the point?

The question was "Where does this exist" and I showed where it exists. The RD has control enough to lock the console. The fact that it is not permanently locked is not really material to the issue. It is within the power of the RD to stop production of ~things~ within their department. The QM should have at least a similar level of control within their department where the means of production is so much more limited.

Is it just me or did that post really not make any sense?

Like, he wants to justify QM locking console from the department employees by the fact that R&D has console lock against anyone BUT department employees?

So I am seriously considering coding this thing up. I'm not too convinced on the arguments against such a button being implemented but I'm open to more discussion on it, I'm lazy and won't bother to do it immediately, I guess.