/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:12 pm**

As pertaining to the requirement that any changes to our backstory be discussed and voted on in the main forums (Only surviving article of that requirement is on the old wiki here: http://www.ss13.eu/wiki/index.php/Admin_Decisions_Log), I am creating this thread to put forward a alteration to our backstory to account for the ability for players to play as a non-human Lizard.

Up until the introduction of Lizard selectable characters, Lizards were, from a lore perspective, restricted to very low-level roles and were still only in the process of being hired on NT space stations. However now anyone can play a Lizard in any role barring a command role (Captain, HoS, HoP, CMO, RD or CE).

Hence why I suggest that a new amendment be made to the lore to account for this, here's how I would write it.

Echos of Humanity's dark distant past and their treatment of alien species remain well entrenched in modern day Human society, with all alien species, including Lizardmen, being treated as second class citizens in Human society.

In 2550 Nanotrasen made history with the creation, and signing, of the Lessen Equality Act which paved the way for Lizardmen to be hired into low level jobs on-board Nanotrasen space stations, as well as being the first corporation in exsistance to sign such a act. However in 2554 a amendment to the Lessen Equality Act, known as article 66, authorized the promotion of Lizardmen into higher ranking roles.

This proved to be a significantly controversial amendment that was met with great disapproval, undeterred the change was pushed through by Nanotrasen's board of directors. However the threat of the Government to terminate Nanotrasen's top secret plasma mining contract forced the addition of article 67 which barred Lizardmen from assuming a command level role outside of extreme circumstances. Nanotrasen was quick to use their new Lizardmen employees to shore up gaps in their workforce.

The top secret Space Station 13 was no exception.

Text is not final but I'm sure you get the jist.

EDIT: Link to our current backstory wiki page: https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Backstory

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:16 pm**

That page really needs to be updated, or just straight up canned.

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:26 pm**

It could do with a one over, but that would require some consensus on a backstory.

Or really I could look over it and better refine the lore we have to present it better. Maybe.

Oh, I edited the OP to link to our current "Backstory" wiki page.

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:28 pm**

>steelpoint doing backstory
>policy discussion forum

Everything about this thread is bad no

They're mutants, humans who have lived on other planets and evolved or genetic experiments, and thus are treated poorly (by humanity puritans). That's why they're covered under AI laws, etc.

If they're aliens, that would fuck up a lot of shit especially when it comes to AIs. They're called 'mutant races' for a reason.

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:31 pm**

paprika wrote:If they're aliens, that would fuck up a lot of shit especially when it comes to AIs.

like what

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:31 pm**

Law 1
Law 2
Law 3

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:37 pm**

They aren't covered under the AI laws.

Borgs are free to murder them if they're harmful fucks, same as monkeys and slimepeople.

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:41 pm**

Which is bad, because they don't get any advantages for this validity even though they're humans

Trusting admins to ban silicons when they murder lizards unfairly is such a complete waste of time when they can be just declared human according to the lore. Hulks can be incredibly destructive and impossible to pacify normally which is why they are non-human, but lizards are non-human just because 'muh aliums' which is a bad lore anyway.

Since the AI laws aren't changing any time soon there's no reason to make them non-human like we did with hulks

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:53 pm**

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... lit=lizard

There was a thread almost entirely devoted to this subject.

They can't be command roles because they aren't human because it allows for more interesting gameplay than just being a different sprite.

And please point out where admins haven't banned silicons for abusing lizards 4noreason, I haven't seen any of it beyond the genocide that one round in the holodeck.

On topic, it'd be nice if the lore were just completely rewritten to be quite honest.

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:04 pm**

paprika wrote:Which is bad, because they don't get any advantages for this validity even though they're humans

Trusting admins to ban silicons when they murder lizards unfairly is such a complete waste of time when they can be just declared human according to the lore. Hulks can be incredibly destructive and impossible to pacify normally which is why they are non-human, but lizards are non-human just because 'muh aliums' which is a bad lore anyway.

Since the AI laws aren't changing any time soon there's no reason to make them non-human like we did with hulks

They aren't human, they're humanoid. There is a difference. They are, in fact, a different species than humans.

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:39 pm**

Last time I heard the general ruling was that Lizardmen could not be randomly killed/attacked by Silicon's for no reason, however as a Lizardman you are not protected under Law 1 or 2 so a Silicon could defend itself if you start attacking it akin to how a Human can defend itself.

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:57 pm**

Yes, that.

And the AI can ignore a lizardperson's orders without needing a law 1 reason.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:54 am**

Violaceus wrote:lizard = human

paprika's logic

Lizard = mutated human

The game's logic (according to the code)

Look at the title of this fucking thread ffs, "lizardMEN"

They've been called MUTANTraces for fucking AGES even, stop being so eager to display your newfaggotry.

They aren't aliens, calling them aliens is retarded, and the only place where 'alien' is mentioned is the color selector in the character options menu iirc

I mean sure they can be aliens in the same way immigrants to countries are classified as 'aliens' but logically they're no different than hulks or slime people and whether or not you put them under AI law protection(which is stupid because lizards are nothing but cosmetically different), they aren't like, greys or space blobs or xenomorphs or changelings

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:56 am**

Intigracy wrote:And please point out where admins haven't banned silicons for abusing lizards 4noreason, I haven't seen any of it beyond the genocide that one round in the holodeck.

The genocide was a traitor AI. Everyone seems to forget this fact.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:16 am**

Then maybe we should solidify their status as a true alien species. Whether they are a mutant or a alien is down to personal opinion at this junction.

However the fact of the matter is that it makes no difference if they are a mutant or alien race as they both have the same rights by the Silicon's.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:57 am**

I can't stop laughing about how you said my calling you a newfag was bad but then you started using obvious logical fallacies.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:45 am**

paprika wrote:Law 3

kek

We've been over this in the policy discussion on the treatment of "mutantraces." A lizard interacts with the laws made for humans differently but is not always disadvantaged. A lizard, for example, can be let into a dangerous area that would be harmful for a human to enter because they are not human.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:34 am**

cedarbridge wrote:
paprika wrote:Law 3
kek

We've been over this in the policy discussion on the treatment of "mutantraces." A lizard interacts with the laws made for humans differently but is not always disadvantaged. A lizard, for example, can be let into a dangerous area that would be harmful for a human to enter because they are not human.

This is a meme, right? You can't literally be telling me that this has ever happened. The asspull hypothetical situations are real.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:48 am**

paprika wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
paprika wrote:Law 3
kek

We've been over this in the policy discussion on the treatment of "mutantraces." A lizard interacts with the laws made for humans differently but is not always disadvantaged. A lizard, for example, can be let into a dangerous area that would be harmful for a human to enter because they are not human.
This is a meme, right? You can't literally be telling me that this has ever happened. The asspull hypothetical situations are real.

Its happened more than once in the rounds I've played as a lizard or sent lizard officers to deal with something. You cut the memes to cover your lack of arguments.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:09 am**

I'm going to make the assumption that people support this amendment more than they do reject it.

I'll work on a proper text and post it in this thread prior to adding it to the wiki page.

While I do think it might be worthwhile to tidy up our backstory, that can be done later on.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:32 am**

Here's a more refined lore text.

Echos of Humanity's distant past and their treatment of alien species remains well entrenched in modern day Human society, Lizardmen have always been considered second class citizens, many Lizardmen remember whole worlds being established with the wholesale intent of purging xenomorph life in the name of self defence.

In 2550 Nanotrasen made history with the creation, and signing, of the Lessen Equality Act which paved the way for Lizardmen to be hired into low level jobs on-board Nanotrasen space stations, as well as being the first corporation in exsistance to sign such a act, however as of 2554 a amendment to the Lessen Equality Act, known as article 66, authorized the promotion of Lizardmen into higher ranking roles.

While a significantly controversial amendment that has been met with negative reactions, the change was pushed through by Nanotrasen's board of directors. However the threat of the Government to terminate Nanotrasen's top secret plasma mining operation contract forced the addition of article 67 which barred Lizardmen from assuming a command level role outside of extreme circumstances. Nanotrasen took no delay in using the new Lizardmen employees to shore up gaps in their workfroce.

The top secret Space Station 13 was no exception.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:56 am**

>Lessen Equality act

Can we not reference ERPers

And can the grammar in this block of text not be written by a 12 year old too

cedarbridge wrote: Its happened more than once in the rounds I've played as a lizard or sent lizard officers to deal with something. You cut the memes to cover your lack of arguments.

My arguments aren't the hypothetical situations that rarely, if ever, happen; proving that these situations are the exception (not the rule) to go by when making these policies.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:01 am**

paprika wrote:>Lessen Equality act

Can we not reference ERPers

And can the grammar in this block of text not be written by a 12 year old too

I'm referencing our current lore as it stands. Also feedback on my (shitty) grammar is more appreciated than throwing out insults as is your status quo.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:03 am**

I don't care if your grammar is shitty I care that someone with shitty grammar is putting it upon himself to rewrite official wiki lore articles

Also Amy Lessen is a rather notoriously shitty xenomorph ERPer please purge immediately

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:05 am**

It's almost like people can contribute their feedback and make suggestions. Or even go to the length of editing a wiki page to improve it's grammar.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:25 am**

paprika wrote:This is a meme, right? You can't literally be telling me that this has ever happened. The asspull hypothetical situations are real.

>Uninformed opinions.

This did happen though. Long round and clown traded TCs for a clownbomb to set off in the captain's room.
Clowns everywhere, and the camera is out. AI locks down the room and denies entrance to everybody.

Random lizard guy runs up "AI let me in to check, you don't have to protect me because i'm a lizard"
"Oh, you're right. Everybody stand back please."

And then the lizard set all the clowns loose.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:42 am**

I don't think we need a centralized backstory. I just like to come up with stuff on the fly. We reset everything each round anyway, so why not let people improvise?

For example, the stupid lizard head ban. Because some people said so, now I cannot be glorious lizard emprah. A bunch of cool possibilities are gone. Did it improve anything? Somehow I doubt that.

The fact of the matter is, there isn't enough quality roleplaying on the server to justify this, and when there is quality roleplaying, I honestly think it needs more freedom.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:53 am**

The point of my proposal is to give context to the sudden widespread introduction of Lizards into the game, since the only statement on Lizards is that they are confined to low level (Janitorial) roles. Sadly opinions on whether restricting Lizardmen from a command role are highly subjective.

As I said, if anyone think's my grammar is poor please highlight it instead of shitposting about it, I edited the OP with the most up to date text.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:28 pm**

Steelpoint wrote:are highly subjective

It objectively reduces the number of roleplaying possibilities. Make of that what you will.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:36 pm**

It objectively increases the amount of oppressed lizardmen roleplaying possibilities since it's backed up by an actual gameplay factor.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:39 pm**

paprika wrote:It objectively increases the amount of oppressed lizardmen roleplaying possibilities since it's backed up by an actual gameplay factor.

Nobody needed this stupid restriction to roleplay oppressed lizardmen, most of roleplay was exactly that for some time after lizards were added.

Nowadays they are more like reskinned humans that talk a little differently. Which is exactly what would've happened without the restriction, only you could actually play all the roles as lizards.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:50 pm**

I play lizards because I have 0% chance of becoming a head.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:56 pm**

I've never been much of a fan of SS13 having a fleshed out canon or lore. I think players and fans coming up with their own stories, ideas, writing is fine. Beyond Nanotrasen as some kind of future megacorp, the Syndicate and other antags, I don't there's much need for an "official" account of SS13's world.

Lizards being subjugated or second-class citizens can be just that, whatever reason for it can be subject to the playerbase's imaginations.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:27 pm**

I'm very much enjoying playing Dreams-of-Trees, the lizard supremacist.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:53 pm**

I have to say I enjoyed reading the SS13 lore when I first got into it. It kinda gave it a nice background to play against and in my experience it made me edge more towards roleplay than purely a game. I'd say add it as if people really dislike it that much, they simply dont have to read it or really even acknowledge it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:18 pm**

Violaceus wrote: So what would stop me from claiming that my character is the CEO of NT?

Not writing Mary Sues, for a start.

Even if we did flesh out lore on the current CEO, there'd be nothing to stop someone using that character's name as their own and joining the station. If anything, having an explicit name and identity for the CEO is likely to cause people to use it in an attempt to be funny or just "lorelol".

But that sort of ties into what I think about fleshed out lores. This thread has already caused arguments over how lizards should be done, driving any efforts to flesh the lore out more is only to cause more arguments. And even with established histories, stories, is just going to cause more arguments over how certain roleplaying or characters or changes to the game don't fit the lore.

Which is exactly why just fan-fiction and ad-hoc storylines with a vague articulation of SS13's unuiverse and all that jazz are, in my mind, just fine. As paprika mentioned, I think a general description of human-like mutants as second class citizens is good enough, let your imagination do the rest.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:47 pm**

Violaceus wrote:So what would stop me from claiming that my character is the CEO of NT?

Nothing. That's the point.

Whether or not anybody listens is another matter entirely.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:35 pm**

Except that a lot of things don't make sense, we reset everything each round and frankly it's more fun to improvise.

But you know, that's more of a opinions category.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:08 pm**

Look, one of the great things about this game is how it doesn't get old.

I mean, today I may want to gas all lizards and tomorrow I might bow to them and try to destroy all specism. As opposed to "Oh, he's a lizard. They're so oppressed. Fuck 'em." for 100th time because a bunch of people on forums decided that "lol hoomanity" should be supported by actual in-game restrictions.

The thing is, we won't get better roleplay anyway and you just take away something that could be used as basis for good roleplay.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:19 pm**

Codewise, lizards are mutantraces because that's what the code is called. In-game, policy is that lizardmen are an alien species that are not currently covered under Asimov protection if they are causing harm to humans.

Codewise, double-barrel shotguns are revolvers, chairs are beds, and food are weapons. Don't let behind-the-scenes code mechanics influence your perspective on the game. That's silly.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:23 pm**

The janicart is a bed (The pussy wagon one, not the roller) but shhh don't let anyone know

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:25 pm**

If anyone has any final feedback on the proposed lore entry as written in the OP speak up.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:34 pm**

As long as we can keep named figures out of it, for reasons stated above by Violaceus, i'm all for it.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:45 pm**

I'd second that opinion. I like padding so long as its still ambiguous enough to "write" your own story into the game.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:56 pm**

Hence why I only refereed to Nanotrasen as the "board of directors". For a game like SS13 it is important to avoid named people as much as possible in the lore.

I might also go through the lore page and post a more refined version, cutting down on some of the horrible grammar and making more sense of the lore but without changing anything.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:03 pm**

I thought the CEO was called Creed, was it removed from the lore because WH40K references are bad?

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:46 pm**

This proved to be a significantly controversial amendment that was met with great disapproval, undeterred however the change was pushed through by Nanotrasen.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:04 pm**

Steelpoint wrote:Echos of Humanity's dark distant past and their treatment of alien species remain well entrenched in modern day Human society, with all alien species, including Lizardmen, being treated as second class citizens in Human society.

Good so far.

Steelpoint wrote:In 2550 Nanotrasen made history with the creation, and signing, of the Lessen Equality Act which paved the way for Lizardmen to be hired into low level jobs on-board Nanotrasen space stations, as well as being the first corporation in exsistance to sign such a act. However in 2554 a amendment to the Lessen Equality Act, known as article 66, authorized the promotion of Lizardmen into higher ranking roles.

Like other people have said, an Amy Lessen joke is kind of poor taste here. Also when you call it the Lessen Equality act it sounds like your lessening equality when you're doing the opposite. Newer players reading the lore page won't get the reference and just be confused by your choice of words.

Steelpoint wrote:This proved to be a significantly controversial amendment that was met with great disapproval, undeterred the change was pushed through by Nanotrasen's board of directors. However the threat of the Government to terminate Nanotrasen's top secret plasma mining contract forced the addition of article 67 which barred Lizardmen from assuming a command level role outside of extreme circumstances. Nanotrasen was quick to use their new Lizardmen employees to shore up gaps in their workforce.

>Government
Isn't NT an infinitely huge sovereign corporation? What government owns the far reaches of space? Why are Lizardmen barred from command roles if they're just mutated humans? Doesn't that kind of ruin the fun of lizard players for dumb reasons?

Violaceus wrote:communist corporation, not american capitalistic corporation.

Please learn what those words you are using mean.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:08 pm**

Lizardmen are a different species with comparable DNA to humans, they aren't a mutated human.

Please see Cheridan's post.

Cheridan wrote:Codewise, lizards are mutantraces because that's what the code is called. In-game, policy is that lizardmen are an alien species that are not currently covered under Asimov protection if they are causing harm to humans.

Codewise, double-barrel shotguns are revolvers, chairs are beds, and food are weapons. Don't let behind-the-scenes code mechanics influence your perspective on the game. That's silly.

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:20 pm**

Intigracy wrote:Lizardmen are a different species with comparable DNA to humans, they aren't a mutated human.

Please see Cheridan's post.

Cheridan wrote:Codewise, lizards are mutantraces because that's what the code is called. In-game, policy is that lizardmen are an alien species that are not currently covered under Asimov protection if they are causing harm to humans.

Codewise, double-barrel shotguns are revolvers, chairs are beds, and food are weapons. Don't let behind-the-scenes code mechanics influence your perspective on the game. That's silly.

I skipped over it because page 2 looked like a lot of dumb shitflinging. Things not having Asimov protection generally leads to gnashing of teeth and weeping. It seems easier to just say "they're mutated humans" so they can still be human according to Asimov and because we will literally never change Asimov despite all the conflict it creates.

Also lizard names aren't addressed here. Verbs-Article-Noun is the standard lizard name format but there's some people going around with Fourtwentyweedscopes tier names because it's muh alien culture I don't have to have human names.

Violaceus wrote:
Please learn what those words you
are using mean.
I know what communism means propably far better than you, as I live in country which was occupied by this worst of diseases.

Of course there are no corporations in communism, but it doesn't stop many people from viewing NT as oppresive corporation with communist flavor.

And I'm from the country that killed it for you because Europeans can't sort out their own problems. You're welcome.

Tell me though, how are they 'communist'?

/tg/Station 13

[POLL] Update SS13 lore to account for Lizardmen?

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