Blobbernauts: What the fuck is this shit

ExplosiveCrate · Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:02 pm

Right, so the blob can spawn blobbernauts by sacrificing factory nodes. Sure, it might seem like a good trade-off. A continuous stream of minions for one very powerful minion. I support the idea, even.

The problem is the blobbernaut's special ability. That is, if you get hit by one and you aren't wearing a fire suit, you're dead. No way to save you, no way to prevent it from happening. You just die, slowly. gg no re
What the blobbernaut does is set you on fire (apparently by injecting the people it hits with a reagent that sets people on fire). You cannot put out this fire by any means, not with fire extinguishers or by rolling on the floor. The only way to not die is to wear a fire suit 24/7 and hope the fire eventually goes away, or spend the rest of the game in space. If the blob core is nowhere near space, you're completely screwed.

I just witnessed a round where two blobbernauts killed most of the members of the deathsquad, just by setting them on fire. Only one died from brute damage (and that was mostly because of some confused friendly fire).

Ames · Post by **Ames** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:04 pm #38634

I feel like everyone knows that blobbernauts set you on fire for eternity... but its just a bug right?

Post by **MMMiracles** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:18 pm #38635

I was one of the deathsquad members, we were given pulse rifles and right as we got off the ship, a scientist greeted us with lockboxes for xray laser guns. Things were going great until the blob sent 2 blobbernauts.

We still managed to kill both of them, but they got 1 hit on the 3 that were breaching. Thats all it took to down 3 fully geared members was a single hit for the fire to catch. Literally nothing put it out, so we just sorta dropped into crit and got taken by the swarm of blob spores the blob sent in our direction afterwards.

in short, blobbernaut op pls nerf

Remie Richards · Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:05 pm

Ames wrote:I feel like everyone knows that blobbernauts set you on fire for eternity... but its just a bug right?

They shouldn't be infinite, It' may be bugged.

Edit: Nope, not bugged, the reagent does remove itself at the usual rate for reagents.
I'll lower the firestacks the reagent gives you, this is why the fire lasts (too) long.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:29 pm #38645

Remie Richards wrote:
Ames wrote:I feel like everyone knows that blobbernauts set you on fire for eternity... but its just a bug right?
They shouldn't be infinite, It' may be bugged.

Edit: Nope, not bugged, the reagent does remove itself at the usual rate for reagents.
I'll lower the firestacks the reagent gives you, this is why the fire lasts (too) long.

I've seen people with over 200 units of the reagent. Using reagents for this is a bit much anyway because there's no way to remove it other than stuff them under a shower until it wears off.

ExplosiveCrate · Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:46 pm

How long SHOULD it last, though? Even a couple of seconds is enough to drop someone to half health, and that's not even counting the damage from the melee attacks.

The blobs shouldn't even set people on fire. Having a big moving wall that deals a shitload of damage is enough.

Remie Richards · Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:09 pm

ExplosiveCrate wrote:How long SHOULD it last, though? Even a couple of seconds is enough to drop someone to half health, and that's not even counting the damage from the melee attacks.

The blobs shouldn't even set people on fire. Having a big moving wall that deals a shitload of damage is enough.

Believe me without the reagent they're crap.

I tested them against some of the stupid simple animals we have, and the blobbernauts lost.
The moment I added fire damage, they were able to kill humans (albeit it dummy (not simple animals this time) ones) well enough.

Again, I'll look into lowering the amount of fire stacks they give.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:59 pm #38661

Can you not just set them to on_fire instead of a massively stacking reagent that does it?
If they can get away long enough to stop drop and roll, that should be enough. Seeing people hopelessly roll 2 or 3 times only to succumb to the flames is kinda shit. I've been checking people's reagent contents mid-game during blob and its always 30+ of that stuff which isn't going away any time soon. They're dead unless they can find a shower nearby to stand under for the next couple minutes.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:43 pm #38682

Saegrimr wrote:Can you not just set them to on_fire instead of a massively stacking reagent that does it?
If they can get away long enough to stop drop and roll, that should be enough. Seeing people hopelessly roll 2 or 3 times only to succumb to the flames is kinda shit. I've been checking people's reagent contents mid-game during blob and its always 30+ of that stuff which isn't going away any time soon. They're dead unless they can find a shower nearby to stand under for the next couple minutes.

Basically this. They were made to counter stacking armor, but their design doesn't take into account people that don't wear armor. Getting hit by these things without atmos hardsuit/being a golem essentially means you're dead gg pack it up. Medical can't do shit because you'll just burn to death no matter what treatment they give you. The burning spore shit has no cure or treatment so even medics are useless. Giving blobs counterplay vs brute resist stacking is ok I guess, but doing so by giving the blob a wall smashing 1touch dead mob is a bad way to do it.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:52 pm #38684

If you really want to try something interesting, make the amount of burn damage that can be applies tied to the amount of melee protection the victim is wearing somehow.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:31 am #38694

Steelpoint wrote:If you really want to try something interesting, make the amount of burn damage that can be applies tied to the amount of melee protection the victim is wearing somehow.

No, because the whole point of blobbernauts is to counter melee tanks! Instead, just have the blobbernaut punch SOAK you in the stuff instead of putting it IN you. That way, you can put people out instead of having internal napalm.

Remie Richards · Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:38 am

Gun Hog wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:If you really want to try something interesting, make the amount of burn damage that can be applies tied to the amount of melee protection the victim is wearing somehow.
No, because the whole point of blobbernauts is to counter melee tanks! Instead, just have the blobbernaut punch SOAK you in the stuff instead of putting it IN you. That way, you can put people out instead of having internal napalm.

That's what the reagent does Gun, it gives fire stacks, the unit of measurement for "AM I FIRE?"

ExplosiveCrate · Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:58 am

Still, limiting the reagents to a very small number (or, you know, just setting them on fire without any of this reagent bullshit) would probably be the best way to handle this. Otherwise it doesn't seem like it would matter how many stacks you had as long as that reagent was in your system. And apparently the reagent is going to stay in for a long time, much longer than it would take to kill someone hopped up on kelotane.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:37 am #38777

Blobbernauts really shouldn't be a thing at all.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:14 am #38793

Drenching people in something flammable and lighting them on fire once should do the the trick. This is enough of a distraction for the blobbernaughts to function.

As it is now I tend to have to ask blobs not to make more than a couple of them.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:13 am #38820

One amusing side effect of blobbernauts is they pop out of gold slime cores, and guaranteed break out of the rwalled blast door'd containment room.

WeeYakk · Post by **WeeYakk** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:45 pm #38901

Why do blobbernauts set people on fire? There's nothing about the sprite that communicates to the player "this thing will set you on fire".

ExplosiveCrate · Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:34 pm

I believe it's "acid" that uses the fire sprite.

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:56 am #39013

So the idea of them is to counter armor... we already HAVE a pre-existing solution for this though. Cryosting (or so I'm told) is more severe, based on armor. The blobnaut could do the same thing, or something similar.

Incomptinence · Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:41 am

Actually cryosting is more intense against thermal protection because it works both ways. The insulation keeps warmth out so the cold inside you is more deadly.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:15 pm #39060

Uhh... they're not using the hell fire reagent are they?

ExplosiveCrate · Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:04 pm

Malkevin wrote:Uhh... they're not using the hell fire reagent are they?

Code: Select all

+/mob/living/simple_animal/hostile/blobbernaut/AttackingTarget()
+	..()
+	if(isliving(target))
+		var/mob/living/L = target
+		if(L.reagents)
+			L.reagents.add_reagent("spore_burning", 10)

Nah, they use burning spores.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:38 pm #39093

What if we had the factory tile have a wind up for blobbernaut? Like you commit the points and the factory blob starts flashing or something and it's up to the crew to either try and rush to the factory node for the kill or get out of the way of the impending kool-aid blob.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:12 pm #39100

Replace it with an acid spit that removes armour, so a combination of blobbernauts and normal blob zombies can be an effective attack

ExplosiveCrate · Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:30 pm

I hope you're suggesting that it removes armor values and not actual armored exosuits. Then it'd become impossible to exploit the blob's biggest weakness: space.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:26 pm #39117

ExplosiveCrate wrote:I hope you're suggesting that it removes armor values and not actual armored exosuits. Then it'd become impossible to exploit the blob's biggest weakness: space.

Or rather, it would be impossible to counter the blob's greatest ally: space

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:06 am #39197

I fucking told them not to do it, they went ahead and did it anyway.

I've no idea why coderbus was so into "set on fire" idea, it's not like we don't have other means of penetrating melee armor.

It doesn't even make any sense. Blob is weak to fire.

If you release plasma, blobbernauts will ignite it and that makes zero sense.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:52 pm #39232

This is my fault, I was the one who originally pushed for blobs having some kind of counter for lolaugsriotsuittricordgg. Unfortunately I have no idea how to fix this, beyond jacking the cost up EVEN MORE.

Acid spit might be interesting.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:30 pm #39239

Nerf the armor suits I guess, some of them are pretty ridiculous in strength because their values were never changed after how the armor damage absorbtion system was changed

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:34 pm #39241

Malkevin wrote:Nerf the armor suits I guess, some of them are pretty ridiculous in strength because their values were never changed after how the armor damage absorbtion system was changed

I tried to adjust the values down, it was closed.

Blame Aran.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:37 pm #39242

Or give blobbernauts a brute+toxin melee, the idea being that they are injecting you with poison. Gets around armour without being completely bullshit. Dyvolene is easy to produce, and this forces whoever the blobbernauts hit back to medbay without making them forever on fire like they do now.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:44 pm #39243

As I said prior.

Can we make it that a Blobbernaut deals a base amount of 20 burn damage per hit as well as knockback. However the attack also deals additional damage up to a cap of 50/60 burn damage.

The ratio we can use is 2:1, for ever two points of armour one point of burn damage is applied.

For example, a Security Officer wearing a armour vest (50 melee) is hit. In addition to the base 20 burn damage he will also suffer 25 additional damage for a total of 45 burn damage. As well as being knocked back.

It would make Blobbernauts a nut cracker.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:06 pm #39247

iyaerP wrote:Or give blobbernauts a brute+toxin melee, the idea being that they are injecting you with poison. Gets around armour without being completely bullshit. Dyvolene is easy to produce, and this forces whoever the blobbernauts hit back to medbay without making them forever on fire like they do now.

Probably not back to medbay. If a 'naut injects enough toxin you probably need treatment on scene or you'll die before you get to medbay. Something to finally get those MDs out of medbay in a blob round I guess.

Remie Richards · Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:44 pm

While this PR does not apply to blobbernauts, https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5512
The reasoning is to eventually swap "fire bullshit" with "The more I slap you, the worse your armour gets you powergaming f*ck"

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:53 pm #39254

Remie Richards wrote:While this PR does not apply to blobbernauts, https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5512
The reasoning is to eventually swap "fire bullshit" with "The more I slap you, the worse your armour gets you powergaming f*ck"

Seems good.

There should be a way to gauge how much armour protection a item still has. Sort of like how if a vest is reduced to half efficiency (25 versus 50) then it states that the armour is looking grim.

Last thing anyone wants is to discover that Riot Suit only offers 3 melee protection.

Remie Richards · Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:03 pm

Steelpoint wrote: There should be a way to gauge how much armour protection a item still has. Sort of like how if a vest is reduced to half efficiency (25 versus 50) then it states that the armour is looking grim.

Atm, any "damaged" armour has the line " it looks slightly melted..." added to it's description, as long as it's protection values are not the original, they show up as "slightly melted"

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:47 am #39494

Just to illustrate how BULLSHIT these fucking mobs are right now, I just was in a blob round, where as a sec officer, I got hit by a blobbernaut in medbay. Within 10 seconds of going into crit, I was put into a cryo tube, and STILL DIED. I don't see how it can be more clearly a problem than that, when you can't even survive with INSTANT treatment.

Incomptinence · Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:53 am

Ugh why was the spores dealing toxins pull rejected again?

Oh yeah Aran thought toxin was too complex a thing to counter so here we are with an INTENSE BURNING SENSATION with only one probs unintentional counter.

Aranclanos wrote:I don't think toxin damage is really fun to play with, standard medkits don't heal them and neither the sleeper.

Oh well maybe we will get cool armour melting blobs eventually, unless Aran rejects it for being too rough then lets armour deletion slide instead.

Edit: Oh to be clear I am glad blobs are killing everyone horribly. I just realize my dreams of total blob rampage 24/7 would not be nice for other people.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:40 am #39499

Just got out of a functional solo run in what was supposed to be a two blob round. Literally the only thing I was concerned about was the atmos rigsuit and the CE suit (I never even saw the CE). Everything else was essentially a skate.

Post by **Jacquerel** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:33 am #39518

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5512
With this pull about armour-melting acid could we just make them spray acid

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:11 pm #39529

Why not just get gud at chemistry and make dermaline with kelotane pills for everyone?

ExplosiveCrate · Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:42 pm

Because even then fire damage still outpaces the healing you get from kelotane, so unless you shove even more chemicals in there, you're still dead.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:18 pm #39534

>Countering the blob with riot armor
>Powergaming

Muh sides

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:52 pm #39549

Better nerf that riot armor then. :^)

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:44 pm #39576

Jacquerel wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5512
With this pull about armour-melting acid could we just make them spray acid

As neat as the acid changes are, I think this also applies to hardsuits/spess suits. In that case you're just going to have blobs spamming these things anyway and ggnore ing anyone that fights them in an area exposed to space. And blobs almost universally expose themselves to space.

Post by **oranges** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:09 pm #39604

We're trying to make some interesting play and counterplay interaction here, so could you not derail the thread thanks.

Incomptinence · Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:14 pm

Hopefully destructible space suits would open the way for ordering/building the drat things.

Fixed number of loyalist space suits. We have a ton of them but mechanically treat them like fucking lostech. Gross.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:18 pm #42920

Just a notice that these things are still obnoxious. I've been in two rounds with them and as soon as you get hit by it you basicly die. I went under a shower, drank healing regents but I still died.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:16 pm #42943

Steelpoint wrote:Just a notice that these things are still obnoxious. I've been in two rounds with them and as soon as you get hit by it you basicly die. I went under a shower, drank healing regents but I still died.

I'm honestly surprised that after all this time and the general uproar about it, not a single thing has been done about them.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:05 pm #42961

Because when coders have something that they like, it is protected to the point of insanity. When there is something that players like, but coders don't, it is gone faster than a fucking bullet.