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[Saegrimr] - banned without cause

https://forums.tgstation13.org/viewtopic.php?t=1476

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[Saegrimr] - banned without cause

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:51 am
by slammo1
Byond account and character name: Slammo1 - Randy Giles
Banning admin: Saegrimr
Ban reason and length: 1440 minutes - Reason: Unreasonable escalation of an accidental flash into murder. Metagaming that he may have been a rev, or a traitor, despite not even attacking him afterwards. Brained him afterwards to get a response and then flushed the MMI into disposals while I was mid-conversation with him
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 9/20/14 - 10:23 pm EST
Your side of the story: I was the sole roboticist. Alias Coldwood (might have name wrong) signed up as roboticist after round started. Within seconds of him entering the department, I get flashed by him. Yes, it's meta, but I assumed rev. When I got up and was not a rev, I assumed traitor. Regardless, I thought I was being attacked. Once I get up, I run out of the department, see Alias running around grabbing items, offering no explanation for why I just got flashed- I come back in, trying to stop what I believe to be an antag having tried and failed ineptly to kill me, and attack him with the surgical saw until death, receiving a "I'm not surprised." comment from him in response. Since we are in robo, I debrain him to turn him into a cyborg, because I don't want to completely ruin someone's round and give him a chance to explain himself. I would have happily rebrained him or borged him. Before the brain is even in the MMI, I start getting queries from the admin Saegrimr. All the while, the now MMI Alias is telling me how I am out of control, general OOC comments. I say in parantheses (I would have borged you, but now I have to explain myself to admins) or to similar effect. I explain what happened to Saegrimr, but from the start, he had clearly made up his mind that I was in the wrong, and refused to even consider the fact that 1) Unknown person runs into the dept 2) flashes me and my response to attack him was justified. According to him, I should have recognized it was a mistake (even though Alias offered no apology or acknowledgement for his flashing me for a good minute after it happened) and it was meta to attack him. After Alias continued his OOC "you will get whats coming to you" comments, even after I explained why I responded how I did, I simply threw his brain in disposals. Logs attached below, I should have started logging during the initial inquiry, but I crashed and lost half of them, but I assume admins can check that stuff. After I mentioned I was logging things, he banned me immediately with the comment "I look forward to it", even though the earlier conversation he had said that I was getting a warning.
Spoiler:
Randy Giles pushes Alias Coldwood onto the reinforced table.
Joe Smith hisses, "Thank you"
[Common] James Brian says, "Me"
[Common] Rube Powers says, "just doing my job..."
[Common] Nathan Raiden says, "Big Boss is the big boss."
[Common] Jon Snow says, "I feel a power struggle going on between the AI and the captain"
Marco Kemerer blinds Shitler with the flash!
[Common] Nathan Raiden says, "HE INHERITED HIS TITLE FROM BOSS, WHO HE BESTED."
[Common] Sir Digby Chicken Caesar says, "HELP SHITCURITY"
[Common] Commander Kades says, "I love the AI."
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: Did you really flush the brain too
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
[Common] TEENAGER states, "Notice. Several pipes in atmospherics have been replaced with manual valves."
[Common] Rube Powers asks, "just doing my job can you give me my mop and bucket back?"
[Common] Sir Digby Chicken Caesar says, "I MUST FINISH MY CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION"
Attention:
THE BIG BOSS IS A MEATBAG.

[Common] Jackson Mildred says, "AI open"
PM to-Admins: After him constantly talking OOC shit to me, yes I did
[Common] T.N.M.F. declares, "NO! MY PRECIOUS UPLOAD!"
[Common] T.N.M.F. states, "GAAAAH"
[Common] T.N.M.F. states, "I AM BEING ABUUUSED"
[Common] Jackson Mildred says, "AI"
[Common] Lauser McMauligan stammers, "w-wh-hat-t h-h-happ-p-pen-n-ned ai"
[Common] T.N.M.F. states, "..laws updated."
[Common] Commander Kades says, "I LOVE YOU TOO BABE"
[Common] T.N.M.F. states, "Steve Mic has signed up as Shaft Miner."
[Common] Damian Gronko says, "AI open"
[Common] Kendall Zadovsky says, "AI state laws"
[Common] security newscaster beeps, "Breaking news from Station Announcements!"
Captain Announces


Commander Kades loves you AI.


[Common] T.N.M.F. states, "IT'S A LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP"
[Common] Damian Gronko says, "I must retrieve a corpse AI"
[Common] Jon Snow asks, "Crew, the bartender died in the bar, so could someone bring him to genetics?"
[Common] TEENAGER states, "This configuration is not recommended."
[Common] Jon Snow says, "HE REMEMBERED SUIT SENSORS SO WE CAN HELP HIM"
PM to-Admins: I only debrained him to give him a chance to explain, I would have even put him in a body, but he immediately went to OOC and clearly reached out to you- he was the one who was in the wrong, I wanted to make it right
[Common] TEENAGER states, "Recommendation: Chief Engineer should review the configuration in the atmospherics bay."
Attention:
LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP

[Common] Frank Ocelot says, "Sec arrest michael Rosen for assault"
[Common] Frank Ocelot says, "he put me in crit"
[Common] Frank Ocelot says, "Cargo tech"
Head of Personnel's Desk Announcement:
People are tsun-tsun for the AI

[Common] security newscaster beeps, "Breaking news from Station Announcements!"
[Common] TEENAGER states, "Syndicate detected at SW solars."
[Common] Nathan Raiden says, "CARGO."
[Common] Nathan Raiden says, "I MUST HAVE THIS ORDER"
[Common] Nathan Raiden says, "AS SOON AS POSSIBLE."
[Common] Abig Baum asks, "Is he blowing up my hard work AI?"
[Common] TEENAGER states, "Warning. Syndicate detected."
[Common] TEENAGER states, "I am being attacked."
[Common] Elik Taj hisses, "Finally."
[Common] TEENAGER states, "Secure the nuke disk."
[Common] Sir Digby Chicken Caesar says, "IT IS UP TO ME TO SOLVE THE CASE OF THE SYNDICATES ABOARD THIS STATION"
[Common] Elik Taj asks, "Where are they?"
[Common] Sir Digby Chicken Caesar says, "FIRST I MUST RAID THE BAR"
[Common] Kailyn Kelley says, "SECURE THE DISK"
[Common] Kailyn Kelley says, "SYNDICATES"
[Common] Kailyn Kelley says, "DISK HO"
Attention:
uhhhhhh captain here - i love the AI for some weird reason. Captain out.

[Common] TEENAGER states, "SW SOLARS, AS I JUST SAID."
[Common] Damian Gronko asks, "Confirm Alias is a cyborg?"
[Common] T.N.M.F. states, "THAT STATEMENT IS OFFICIALLY FROM THE CAPTAIN"
[Common] Kailyn Kelley says, "SYNDICATES"
Terra Schlectnacht says, "Upgraded"
Terra Schlectnacht says, "The one on the lef"
Captain Announces


cOMMS ARE DOWN GIT READY CREW!


Terra Schlectnacht says, "Left"
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: [18:53:40]SAY: Randy Giles/Slammo1 : (but now I have to justify myself to admins bc you got upset)
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: Looks like you OOC'd first.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
PM to-Admins: I replied in ( ) bc you started IMing me as soon as it occured- I was happy to borg or rebrain him, but he ran around for a full minute after flashing me without so much as a "oh that was an accident"
TEENAGER states, "ffffiiixxx me"
Priority Announcement


The emergency shuttle has been called. It will arrive in 10 minutes.
Nature of emergency:

Syndicate are coming!


-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: Probably because he clicked the flash in his hand, and didn't actually use it on you.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
You pull the the welding goggles down.
You switch the welding tool on.
Randy Giles has fixed some of the dents on TEENAGER!
Randy Giles has fixed some of the dents on TEENAGER!
Randy Giles has fixed some of the dents on TEENAGER!
Randy Giles has fixed some of the dents on TEENAGER!
TEENAGER is already in good condition.
TEENAGER is already in good condition.
You switch the welding tool off.
You switch the welding tool on.
You switch the welding tool off.
You put the welding tool into the toolbelt.
TEENAGER pings.
PM to-Admins: He came into the dept as a new person, suddenly I'm flashed and on the ground- and I'm supposed to be asking him "Oh was that an accident? "
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: If you actually got flashed and were vulnerable on the ground, why didn't he attack you?
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: And furthermore, if you actually got flashed and were on the ground.. Why weren't you converted into a rev if you thought he was a rev?
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
PM to-Admins: Please ignore the rev mess, my first thought was rev, when that wasn't the case I thought I was getting attacked
PM to-Admins: What is his excuse for flashing me even accidentally and offering no response? I'm just supposed to accept "Oh hey you get flashed" and move on? Who wouldn't think this was an attack?
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: Probably because he didn't start kicking your ass after he flashed you
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
Head of Security's Desk Announcement:
Your commander speaking: We did it crew; we foiled the dastardly nanotrasen-I mean syndicate agents! Free space drinks for everyone on me when we get back to central command.

OOC: Exalted12: ;-;
PM to-Admins: That actually isn't a reason to accept any of this shit, people are incompetent all the time
OOC: HITHISISFRONK: ;_;7
OOC: AkariMMS: rip ;-;6
OOC: Tbcr: :_:7
PM to-Admins: "He failed in his attempt to kill me, guess it wasn't valid"
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: "Valid"?
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
OOC: Kodamann: i remember listening to this in fucking middle school
OOC: Bgobandit: guys
PM to-Admins: You don't know the term?
OOC: Bgobandit: Drones now have a Hat/Mask slot which can equip any Hat or Mask type item. - Thanks JJ!
OOC: Bgobandit: DRONES IN CLOWN MASKS
OOC: Bgobandit: IT BEGINS
OOC: PKPenguin321: drones wearing drones
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: No i'm curious why you're trying to break this down into valid or not.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
OOC: Bgobandit: CLOWN DRONES
OOC: Kodamann: DRONES WEARING DRONES WEARING DRONES
OOC: Artist561: drones wearing drones wearing drones
OOC: Bgobandit: deep fried drones wearing drones wearing drones
OOC: Artist561: OR
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: Thats the problem here, is you were too quick to jump to valids, on top of it all I was cool with this just being a warning but you went and flushed the brain afterwards after OOCing in IC.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
OOC: Artist561: CLOWN DROWNS WEARING CLOWN DROWNS
PM to-Admins: I'm curious why someone attacked me, from my perspective clumsily, and you are trying to argue that I should have waited until they explained why they did so
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: He did explain, and you flushed him anyway.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
PM to-Admins: He explained after he was dead, in OOC no less, basically saying "you'll get yours from the admins"
Central Command Update


Anomaly Alert


Atmospheric anomaly detected on long range scanners. Expected location: Law Office.


PM to-Admins: I'm logging all of this, and it will be posted on the forums if I get banned
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Saegrimr: I look forward to it.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
OOC: Artist561: Guys. I turned on midis. Not mp3s What the fuck is going on
OOC: Durkel: Magic
OOC: Exalted12: Ikarrus stop making everyone cry
PM to-Admins: What justification are you possibly offering?
You have been banned by saegrimr.
Reason: Unreasonable escalation of an accidental flash into murder. Metagaming that he may have been a rev, or a traitor, despite not even attacking him afterwards. Brained him afterwards to get a response and then flushed the MMI into disposals while I was mid-conversation with him.
This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 1440 minutes.
To try to resolve this matter head to http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=7
Connection died.

Why you think you should be unbanned: How is it metagaming to assume someone who flashes you without providing any apology as to why they did so is an attacker and respond in kind? Additionally, what kind of argument can Saegrimr make for entering the conversation "you were wrong", when clearly I was not? I know that part of the logs isn't here, but admins please look into it. I wasn't aware that if people randomly flash you, you are required to wait and have them justify the flashing to determine it was an actual attack before trying to defend yourself.

Re: [Saegrimr] - banned without cause

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:10 am
by Saegrimr
Alright then.
Here's the attack logs.
Spoiler:
[18:36:48]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() shot Osbert Woodworth() with The bullet</font> Please note this was the end of the previous round
[18:45:24]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:25]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:26]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:27]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:28]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:29]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:30]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:31]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:31]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:32]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:33]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:34]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:35]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:45:36]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with circular saw(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:46:15]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() grabbed Alias Coldwood passively</font>
[18:47:35]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() attacked Alias Coldwood() with scalpel(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE)</font>
[18:48:03]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() stripped Alias Coldwood() of the black cap</font>
[18:48:03]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() stripped Alias Coldwood() of the black cap</font>
[18:48:10]ATTACK: <font color='red'>Randy Giles() operated Alias Coldwood() Operation type: brain removal</font>
At no point did he attack you, or even retaliate, or even target you with the flash. He activated the flash in his hands (according to him, on accident).
He then proceeds to not kill you while you're on the ground, flashed. Also you've probably noticed that you weren't a rev. However initially you told me that you thought he was a rev at first which is pretty damn meta.

And now the chat logs.
Spoiler:
[18:41:16]ACCESS: Login: /(Randy Giles) from *** || BYOND v506
[18:41:25]ACCESS: Login: /(Alias Coldwood) from *** || BYOND v506
[18:41:25]SAY: T.N.M.F./ : Alias Coldwood has signed up as Roboticist.
[18:44:43]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : <i>Sure, one second.</i>
[18:45:31]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : I'm not surprised
[18:45:37]EMOTE: Alias Coldwood/ : <B>Alias Coldwood</B> seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless...
[18:45:47]SAY: Randy Giles/ : Why'd you flash me traitor?
[18:46:26]ADMIN: HELP: /(Alias Coldwood): My death legit? It probably is, I just wanted to make sure, since I accidentally set off a flash and then got sawed to death. - heard by 5 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[18:46:30]ADMIN: Saegrimr/ jumped to /(Alias Coldwood)
[18:46:45]SAY: Randy Giles/ : Hello
[18:46:51]SAY: Randy Giles/ : New battery?
[18:47:40]SAY: Randy Giles/ : Yes
[18:49:09]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : So, uh.
[18:49:17]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Ya know I set that flash off on accident?
[18:49:21]SAY: Randy Giles/ : Why did you flash me? Are you a rev?
[18:49:25]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Or is that irrelevant in the case?
[18:49:27]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : I didn't flash you
[18:49:30]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : I grabbed the flash and it went off
[18:49:32]SAY: Randy Giles/ : Um yeah you did
[18:49:36]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Hence why I didn't do anything beyond that
[18:49:37]SAY: Randy Giles/ : I got flashed
[18:49:43]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Yeah, I set it off on accident
[18:49:45]SAY: Randy Giles/ : Sure thing
[18:49:53]SAY: Randy Giles/ : Sucks to be you I guess Alias
[18:50:02]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Yeah. I guess it is.
[18:50:05]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Well,
[18:50:12]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : I was finishing this borg to get on the syringe guns
[18:50:19]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : So I grabbed one of the synth-flashes, and it went off.
[18:50:19]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): Can I ask why you killed Alias Coldwood there?
[18:50:26]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Dunno how, but that doesn't really matter
[18:50:34]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : If I wanted to "rev" this guy, I couldn't do it with a synth-flash
[18:50:43]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : So I walk over and put the flashes in the head,
[18:50:46]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: He flashed me while I had goggle on so I thought he was trying to rev me (Had goggles on?)
[18:50:48]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : This guy walks over and saws me to death.
[18:51:01]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): So you just straight up jump to murder, that's extremely meta don't you think?
[18:51:01]SAY: Randy Giles/ : Alias, you fucked up, stop complaining
[18:51:04]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : I mean, sure, borg life can't be that bad, but come on.
[18:51:11]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Randy,
[18:51:16]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : There are so many words that describe you at this moment
[18:51:21]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : And none of them are very nice.
[18:51:35]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : But regardless of what the truth is at this point,
[18:51:36]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: If someone attacks me, regardless of whether I thought they were rev, I am not justified in defending myself?
[18:51:39]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : You won't listen to it.
[18:51:54]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Either way, I never even flashed you
[18:51:56]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : I set off the flash in hand
[18:52:00]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): Defending yourself is one thing, murder is another. Theres a reasonable line of escalation here that you clearly passed.
[18:52:02]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Left fabricator
[18:52:05]SAY: Randy Giles/ : Alias, you were the one who attacked me first
[18:52:05]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Or at least it should be
[18:52:08]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Randy
[18:52:10]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : I never touched you
[18:52:17]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : You are entirely unharmed
[18:52:27]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Regardless of how you justify it, I'm not pissed
[18:52:36]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Just, you know, kinda set-back
[18:52:46]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : But can I at least be a borg at this rate?
[18:53:00]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: How am I to know an accident vs serious attack? He flashed me and I'm supposed to stand around and wait for him to kill me? I was defending myself - he offered no explanation, no apology
[18:53:18]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : So, uh.
[18:53:23]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Trinity, someone.
[18:53:25]SAY: Randy Giles/ : That's why I debrained you
[18:53:30]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : You what?
[18:53:34]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : You didn't say anything
[18:53:40]SAY: Randy Giles/ : (but now I have to justify myself to admins bc you got upset)
[18:53:50]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Keep telling yourself that
[18:53:57]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : But in the meantime, can you just put me into a borg?
[18:54:21]SAY: Randy Giles/ : You attacked me, in accident supposedly, offered zero apology, and are upset when I responded accordinly
[18:54:25]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): Just saying there is a number of things you could have done considering you didn't even get flashed properly. You just turn around and saw him to death, not even into crit to drag to medbay you just went right for the kill and debrain.
This is the part where you threw the MMI into disposals.
[18:54:34]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : The gods have means to -
[18:54:37]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Well
[18:54:53]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : I suppose you just wanna keep piling transgressions upon transgressions.
[18:55:24]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Oh boy.
[18:55:28]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : They have the belts runnin'
[18:55:28]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: If someone attacks me and offers no response, I should wait it out? I'm confused, I thought I was in danger and reacting appropriately. I even debrained him to borg him and let him explain himself, and all he did was sass me
[18:55:41]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : The eternal ride
[18:55:48]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Oh thank goodness.
[18:55:56]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : If this belt was running, I'd be screwed.
[18:56:39]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: I understand making a mistake, but flashing someone on accident without offering any kind of apology, then crying to admins when you get attacked in repsonse seems a bit much
[18:56:48]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): You got flashed -at- and that didn't even work, you did nothing to defuse the situation other than murder.
[18:56:54]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): You were hardly in any danger
[18:57:07]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Eh
[18:57:15]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Could wait for someone to come by, or just ghost.
[18:57:18]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: I'm not the one who iniated things, but it is my responsibility to make sure its valid?
[18:57:21]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : But either way, doesn't seem too smart.
[18:57:47]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): No its your responsibility to not be so meta as to assume "OH FUCK REVS, BETTER GET MY VALIDS"
[18:58:08]ADMIN: HELP: /(Alias Coldwood): Did I ever attack the guy and not know it? I apologize for re-entering again, but he accused me of attacking him without apology, but I don't see any logs of such. - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[18:58:10]ACCESS: Logout: [DC]/(Randy Giles)
[18:58:25]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Alias Coldwood): He says you flashed him.
[18:58:27]ACCESS: Login: /(Randy Giles) from *** || BYOND v506
[18:58:49]ADMIN: HELP: /(Randy Giles): PMs make me crash, I didn't get your last msg - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[18:59:13]ADMIN: PM: /(Alias Coldwood)->Saegrimr/: I flashed the flash, yeah, it bugged or I double-clicked or something, and it went off, but I never targeted him, nor was he stunned, or harmed, etc. http://gyazo.com/e157cbc8f0942e9e9a21f992d9911ba5
[18:59:23]ADMIN: SubtlePM: Saegrimr/ -> /(Randy Giles) : Sorry, i'll just use this for now. Anyway just don't be so meta as to assume "A FLASH! MUST BE A REV! TIME TO GET MY VALIDS ON!" in the future.
[18:59:49]SAY: Randy Giles/ : If I could reply to you I would, but I can't so I will just speak out loud
[19:00:10]SAY: Randy Giles/ : I should not have said "I assume revs" bc I just assumed someone was trying to kill me
[19:00:55]SAY: Randy Giles/ : There was plenty of opportunity for him to apologize, instead he decided to run around and not address it
[19:00:59]SAY: Alias Coldwood/ : Welp
[19:02:23]ADMIN: Saegrimr/ jumped to /(Randy Giles)
[19:02:36]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): Did you really flush the brain too
[19:02:57]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: After him constantly talking OOC shit to me, yes I did
[19:04:13]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: I only debrained him to give him a chance to explain, I would have even put him in a body, but he immediately went to OOC and clearly reached out to you- he was the one who was in the wrong, I wanted to make it right
[19:08:41]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): [18:53:40]SAY: Randy Giles/ : (but now I have to justify myself to admins bc you got upset)
[19:08:47]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): Looks like you OOC'd first.
[19:10:31]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: I replied in ( ) bc you started IMing me as soon as it occured- I was happy to borg or rebrain him, but he ran around for a full minute after flashing me without so much as a "oh that was an accident"
[19:10:55]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): Probably because he clicked the flash in his hand, and didn't actually use it on you.
[19:12:13]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: He came into the dept as a new person, suddenly I'm flashed and on the ground- and I'm supposed to be asking him "Oh was that an accident? " (On the ground now? What about the goggles?)
[19:12:51]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): If you actually got flashed and were vulnerable on the ground, why didn't he attack you?
[19:13:05]ADMIN: Exalted12/() jumped to /(Randy Giles)
[19:13:12]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): And furthermore, if you actually got flashed and were on the ground.. Why weren't you converted into a rev if you thought he was a rev?
[19:13:51]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: Please ignore the rev mess, my first thought was rev, when that wasn't the case I thought I was getting attacked
[19:15:00]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: What is his excuse for flashing me even accidentally and offering no response? I'm just supposed to accept "Oh hey you get flashed" and move on? Who wouldn't think this was an attack?
[19:15:19]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): Probably because he didn't start kicking your ass after he flashed you
[19:15:43]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: That actually isn't a reason to accept any of this shit, people are incompetent all the time
[19:16:11]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: "He failed in his attempt to kill me, guess it wasn't valid"
[19:16:18]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): "Valid"?
[19:16:35]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: You don't know the term?
[19:16:50]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): No i'm curious why you're trying to break this down into valid or not.
[19:17:27]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): Thats the problem here, is you were too quick to jump to valids, on top of it all I was cool with this just being a warning but you went and flushed the brain afterwards after OOCing in IC.
[19:17:45]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: I'm curious why someone attacked me, from my perspective clumsily, and you are trying to argue that I should have waited until they explained why they did so
[19:17:57]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): He did explain, and you flushed him anyway.
[19:18:29]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: He explained after he was dead, in OOC no less, basically saying "you'll get yours from the admins" (Wrong)
[19:18:51]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: I'm logging all of this, and it will be posted on the forums if I get banned
[19:19:04]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr/->/(Randy Giles): I look forward to it.
[19:19:30]ADMIN: PM: /(Randy Giles)->Saegrimr/: What justification are you possibly offering?
[19:19:32]ADMIN: saegrimr has banned slammo1.
Ya fucked up, jumped to your valids with really flimsy back and forth excuses full of meta.
At one point I was going to leave it at just a warning, but you had to go and dump the brain in disposals out of frustration.

Edit: On a side note, threatening to "log all of this" and post it on the forums is absolutely hilarious.

Re: [Saegrimr] - banned without cause

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:25 pm
by NikNakFlak
This is being moved to resolved because said player was permabanned separately for another reason.
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