/tg/Station 13

Introduction
With the reintroduction of the security module the un-fun aspects of secborgs are rearing their ugly head again. I am all for the secborg and its place as a balancing factor between murder-boning and Gestapo security, but even I admit that many players misuse the module to validhunt when they should be preventing harm, and the power given to the secborg is rather disruptive.

I think the best way to make players happy while maintaining Silicons as a balancing third faction in the antag/security conflict is to rethink the PK module.

Now many of the maintainers do not want to accept any changes to the PK module because of the stigma surrounding secborgs but with their reintroduction I think now may be a good time to actually turn the PK borg from a meme trap module to a functional harm prevention module.

Goal

I'm making this thread in the hopes that people can come up with additions or changes to the module to allow it to be a powerful compliment to secborgs or a worthwhile replacement to them. PK borgs should not be validhunters, so try to consider tools that prevent harm rather than stop humans from harming.

First are a few ideas to start the discussion off.

First being, make the PK module have higher hitpoints compared to other borg modules and self repair by default, or damage reduction, or give it a regenerating shield. This would allow PK borgs to thrust themselves in front of bullets and laser beams and take a beating in place of the intended target. (Borg harm is better than Human harm to borgs!) There are some considerations to think about with this change as it would buff the borg module when it is emagged, and the PK module is already pretty robust

Second, an idea that was floated in OOC during one round, is to give the PK borg an Ion gun. This would be a POWERFUL weapon to give, however it could be used to de-charge energy weapons and stun batons or shut down rampaging mechs and borgs. This would give them a method to stop harm beyond stunning, but would only allow them to stop energy weapon users (security) and not ballistic weapon users (antagonists) or melee users. (everyone). Again the power of the module when subverted needs to be taken into account, as subverting a PK borg with this change becomes a very useful way to wreck havoc on the AI and borgs.

Finally and much more simply would be to simply improve the tools the borg already has. For example make the barrier creator create cover barriers instantly instead of after a painfully long delay to allow it to block bullets better, or have the HARM ALARM report the borgs location in the common and borg channel to alert the crew. or allow the borgs hypospray to actually knock people out or cause them to drop their weapons. This might be the best first step, however the inclusion of secborgs makes the PK module still weak by comparison even with these buffs.

I've suggested the projectile dampening field turning off energy-based weapons while within its radius, in addition to increasing stun baton energy use per stun and increasing flash burn out chance (including other cyborgs'). Ballistics, grenades and melee weapons are unaffected. Yes this interferes with security, that's the point.

Zipties are a must, there's something very ass backwards about giving the standard borg cuffs and the PK being without.

Anonmare wrote:I've suggested the projectile dampening field turning off energy-based weapons while within its radius, in addition to increasing stun baton energy use per stun and increasing flash burn out chance (including other cyborgs'). Ballistics, grenades and melee weapons are unaffected. Yes this interferes with security, that's the point.

Zipties are a must, there's something very ass backwards about giving the standard borg cuffs and the PK being without.

I dont know about zipties, maybe a grabber to confiscate weapons? Keep the human free, remove the ability to harm.

what we don't realize (shutting off eguns really) is all of this would be viable to make it disrupt in nonantag fights.

however, say there's nukeops invading, or security is trying to shut off a rogue ai
is it really fun for everyone's guns to stop working and get grabbed off them by a regenerating cyborg with deflector shields?

trust me I wanted to do this stuff for a long time but balancing it is ass which is why I haven't done it yet.

It requires you to be within 3-4 tiles of the borg, which is two steps away from being flashing distance and you have your flashbangs as well. Make it require to be the active module if you must so that one flash knocks the field offline.

The best option in the case of Nuke OPs would be to re-law the AI so it's not going to disrupt you, it should go without saying that the cyborgs are going to be hampering both sides of the engagement (which they should be if they're not shit)

kevinz000 wrote:what we don't realize (shutting off eguns really) is all of this would be viable to make it disrupt in nonantag fights.

however, say there's nukeops invading, or security is trying to shut off a rogue ai
is it really fun for everyone's guns to stop working and get grabbed off them by a regenerating cyborg with deflector shields?

trust me I wanted to do this stuff for a long time but balancing it is ass which is why I haven't done it yet.

Well I kind of expected ideas be considered as stand alone instead of all combined, for example, how would a PK borg with its current kit work with just an Ion gun added, or just increased hitpoints. If you consider all suggestions together then of course youd get an overpowered monstrosity.

I like what you've done with the PK borg so far kev, the disruption field is the kind of harm prevention tool I think would be preferred over metal sec officers.

I know balancing it is hard, which is why I made this thread, more heads to think about the problem.

Oh great so the borgs get to relentlessly fuck with sec (who already get fucked with constantly and rarely deserve it) while the real antags get to fight back just fine or run.

This totally won't be annoying as fuck.

Dimentio is straight up wrong when he says security rarely deserves it. I say this as someone who plays security every fucking round, people can't hide their executions or don't care and they need to get hit for not using the special room for it or just dragging people into maint when ai isn't watching.

Bee I'll look into it when I'm not busy, I'm busy ruining rnd and a bunch of other things right now so I won't have time to code pkborgs.

Anonmare not all of us have flashes and flashbangs.

also for the record my best idea right now is giving it restrictive shielding. And maybe let it project restrictive shielding on others.

Restrictive = won't protect unless you have no combat gear out

kevinz000 wrote:Anonmare not all of us have flashes and flashbangs.

Because some dumb cat takes the whole box at roundstart.

The idea I gave in discord was to give it the equivalent of the wizard 3wide forcewall spell to separate people fighting. Make them breakable and instantly deployed (or use holo barriers) but it would be incredibly effective at stopping a fight without powering up the borg significantly

Sec officers literally start with a flash, have a vending machine that dispenses both, the sec belts in the lockers have them and there's spares in the warden area on most maps.

If you somehow burn through all of that, there's still the wall flashes in the security cells, the entrance and the HoPline.

And if you manage to burn through all of them, you can print some off from robotics quickly and cheaply. I genuinely don't understand how people can't find flashes when I can't go 5 minutes without tripping over one.

when i said not all people have flashes i was not referring to security.

Yakumo_Chen wrote:The idea I gave in discord was to give it the equivalent of the wizard 3wide forcewall spell to separate people fighting. Make them breakable and instantly deployed (or use holo barriers) but it would be incredibly effective at stopping a fight without powering up the borg significantly

Just removing the cast time from the current holo barrier it has would do wonders.

Kev's idea of a projectable shield seems to be stepping on the medborgs kit a bit in being a human support borg, having it effect the borg and let it body block hits would be better, simpler to code, and be more useful outside of default asimov.

Wasn't one of the original module ideas to give the Borg essentially an energy shield to tank hits without giving it free self-healing or something else unbalanced?

Force it to only work when inhands on the module, and have it eat a shitload of power on each time the Borg is hit, like 500 or so. Forces the Borg to commit to defense but also eats power like a motherfucker if it's bodyblocking someone unloading their guns in the hall. Borg takes no damage until it's out of power and is a brick on wheels anyway.

Classic Borg stuns probably go through the shield (not sure if flashes proc energy shield) and the aoe stuns don't care what the Borg has.

kevinz000 wrote:when i said not all people have flashes i was not referring to security.

But those are the only people who universally have energy weapons, the dampening field wouldn't affect anything that doesn't use energy as ammo and the damage from melee weapons wouldn't be affected at all.

The Heads of Staff all have flashes in their lockers as well, and only the HoP, Cap and HoS have energy weapons. I'm not sure what you mean by the dampening field turning off energy weapons being too strong when people who have access to them also have access to flashes. I can't think of any crewmember or department whom have access to only energy weapons and not flashes

i dunno anyone not sec who manages to get one?

A lot of this is largely pointless brainstorming until the idea of a effective PKborg isn't a "kill on sight" topic with certain maintainers.

Which ones

oranges wrote:Which ones

Certain

oranges wrote:Which ones

gee i wonder who.

oranges wrote:Which ones

Don't worry it's no one important :^)

give peacekeeper a .357 revolver

Whoisthere wrote:give peacekeeper a .357 revolver

peacekeeper
not
peacemaker

well I guess if nobody will address it that maintainer will just keep getting away with it.

what a shame

oranges wrote:well I guess if nobody will address it that maintainer will just keep getting away with it.

what a shame

What a rotten way to die