/tg/Station 13

Requested by cobby and this thread is in reference to a current issue.

Basically, it seems that this was not expressly outlined by the rules that "piling onto" someone else who is ick ooking is bannable. I have a personal stake in the matter because this relates to a current ban ongoing so I will leave this to discussion.

"ICKY OCKY" spam after ic in ooc has always 100% of the time been far worse than the actual ic in ooc because it draws even more attention to it and is annoying as fuck

i don't know if it's bannable though

as one who was also banned for it ( minutes, doesn't even look like i got a note added for it) i dont really care. as I felt like a shithead after the fact (guy was so embarrassed he disconnected.

I think its kinda funny.
t. Person whos accidentally icked in dah ock

Backlash for failing to read the wiki or asking an administrator what something means shouldn't be an excuse to ban people for something everyone has been doing for at least two years now.

I usually just say not to talk about the current round in ooc. The "ick ock"/"ban he" spam is quite annoying though.

What is considered a reasonable reaction? (Ignore it, tell them no knock it off, etc.).

Also, is directly answering the question okay if it won't make things any worse/reveal more about the round? (eg. "How do I use my armblade as a changeling?")

I'd say ignoring it is generally preferable to bursting into a big attention-drawing shrieking match like a pack of angry howler monkeys

icky ocky is a good meme and people will say it even if the question isn't actually icky oocky, punish players who use ooc to their ic advantage instead of people who have fun in ooc

Screemonster wrote:like a pack of angry howler monkeys

If only we shared some common ancestry...

On a more serious tone, I don't really mind the "ick ock" stuff, and I largely dislike OOC memes.

To be honest I'm not sure why OOC is enabled during round, I've rarely seen any discussion of substance take place in it mid-round and more often it invites the accidental ick ocks.

Also policy discussion vs ban discussion but to me it looks like the related ban appeal was less about the ick ock piling and more about Bob getting a little ruffled that the player left.

Frankly the community is and always has been a bit caustic, for better or worse. If a player is going to be dissuaded from playing by a single instance of people teasing lightly about ick ock, they're not going to last past the first time they get shittalked in OOC at round end for poor performance, get shittalked in deadchat, get killed in a salt-inducing way, etc.

Icky ocky is a player tradition as much as I ded pls restart.
Unless someone's spamming 20 lines of it, it should be okay.
I've been on both ends of the stick and I don't mind.

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Icky ocky is a player tradition as much as I ded pls restart.
Unless someone's spamming 20 lines of it, it should be okay.

pretty much my opinion too. It is annoying to see a line of people saying ICK OCK after a obvious slip up in OOC it is basically a shitposting tradition. If the team wants to crack down on OOC shitposting, IC in OOC and OOC in IC (like '.g absorbing AI') then fair enough, just give fair warning so the community can adjust.

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Icky ocky is a player tradition as much as I ded pls restart.
Unless someone's spamming 20 lines of it, it should be okay.
I've been on both ends of the stick and I don't mind.

This pretty much.
This smells like yet another thing that only a vocal minority of players and forum dwelling ex-players care about.

The fuck, they ban for this now?

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Icky ocky is a player tradition as much as I ded pls restart.
Unless someone's spamming 20 lines of it, it should be okay.
I've been on both ends of the stick and I don't mind.

reading woodys got wood on the radio is tradition
greytiding is tradition
killing the clown fnr is tradition
lubing up the hallways into escape is tradition

Doesn't mean it's good!!!!!!

ick ock icky ocky ic ook whatever shit is so fucking annoying. You shouldn't have been banned for it but everyone that does it has to understand they're
a) drawing attention to the actual IC in OOC
b) spamming
and it's usually at least worth just fucking muting all of ooc for five minutes so people can compose themselves rather than collectively tarding out.

but yeah don't make up rules please admins just use the mute function no need to remove someone for the game for being unfunny in ooc when there's 20 other less severe, more appropriate ways to deal with it.

Gigapuddi420 wrote:

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Icky ocky is a player tradition as much as I ded pls restart.
Unless someone's spamming 20 lines of it, it should be okay.

pretty much my opinion too. It is annoying to see a line of people saying ICK OCK after a obvious slip up in OOC it is basically a shitposting tradition. If the team wants to crack down on OOC shitposting, IC in OOC and OOC in IC (like '.g absorbing AI') then fair enough, just give fair warning so the community can adjust.

We already do step on people for unfunny shit like fake comms slips.

Remember kids, there's only one joke that gets funnier the more you tell it.

Seriously when did the tg station community turn into a bunch of uptight pricks with some non-specified foreign object up their ass?

Lighten up, geez.

CPTANT wrote:Seriously when did the tg station community turn into a bunch of uptight pricks with some non-specified foreign object up their ass?

Lighten up, geez.

There's nothing uptight about telling somebody they aren't funny for being unfunny.

ICKY OCK spam is obnoxious and I wouldn't mind it being bannable but one random admin in our team of ~40 deciding they're going to start banning for a behavior thats been allowed for years seems unfair and impossible to follow for our players.

Furthermore it seems kind of extra shit to insist on keeping a note for said behavior after admins have widely agreed it's not cool to decide out if the blue it is bannable

captain sawrge wrote:

AdAstraPerAspera wrote:Icky ocky is a player tradition as much as I ded pls restart.
Unless someone's spamming 20 lines of it, it should be okay.
I've been on both ends of the stick and I don't mind.

reading woodys got wood on the radio is tradition
greytiding is tradition
killing the clown fnr is tradition
lubing up the hallways into escape is tradition

Doesn't mean it's good!!!!!!

ick ock icky ocky ic ook whatever shit is so fucking annoying. You shouldn't have been banned for it but everyone that does it has to understand they're
a) drawing attention to the actual IC in OOC
b) spamming
and it's usually at least worth just fucking muting all of ooc for five minutes so people can compose themselves rather than collectively tarding out.

sawrge is literally the best admin prove me wrong you can't

Kor wrote:ICKY OCK spam is obnoxious and I wouldn't mind it being bannable but one random admin in our team of ~40 deciding they're going to start banning for a behavior thats been allowed for years seems unfair and impossible to follow for our players.

essentially what I was trying to get at

Alright, so my note will be lifted. I really want to take a moment to talk about my thoughts on this instance.

I completely understand why something might be considered wrong and making the situation worse. I can understand why people would want to remove such behavior from the game. However, I am completely against the idea of changing up the rules with notification beforehand. Obviously I am new here so I have no idea how often something like this has happened, but from my basic understanding of civics: to enforce something randomly that has constantly been done by the community is a sort of behavior that SHOULD be avoided and left to discussion. If the banning admin had a problem with it, he should have made a thread in policy discussion, not the person who was banned/noted making a policy dicussion. Additionally, the banning admin stated that the 15-minute ban was for "standard icky ocky" (implying a rule 3 ban) but then later goes on to say it was a rule 0 interpretation of rule 1. This means that the punishment for the rules were made arbitrarily and not consistently referenced. This is the exact reason why the people who make the laws are separated from the people who enforce the laws (separation of powers in the US) to avoid situations like this (obviously this is just a matter of belief though). I'm not going to make an admin complaint or anything, but I feel like this type of behavior should be discouraged which is why I am stating it here. (I know it is a bit off topic, but it relates to what everyone else has said)

Other than that, I think that this is an acceptable rule to have. We would have to set what type of rule it falls under since it may be a rule 3 ban or a rule 1 note (possibly a ban depending). Obviously it is sad to see a tradition that I consider to be funny go, but I understand how it can be disruptive. Still, I feel like we would be hard-pressed to seek out every tradition that isn't exactly morally acceptable in /tg/. Utilizing the rule 0 interpretation of rule 1 leaves admins A LOT of discretion to CREATE LAWS and ENFORCE LAWS that they deem harmful to the server. Perhaps that's the way it's meant to be? Or perhaps we shouldn't have a ban first, think later mentality?

Looking at the ban appeal thread, it seems the bad thing here is that a new player forgot that the ooc asking for advice rule extended to antag stuff, made a mistake, and a bunch of people started making fun of him until he left. It's different between people who've been here a while and know that ick ocking is not a huge deal if you slip up a couple times, the comments are just joking around (personally i find the ick ock flood fun, some think it got boring).
But if you put yourself into the shoes of a new player, who doesn't know anyone here, is trying things out, and is afraid of making a faux pas, sending the wrong message ooc and being made fun of is intimidating. Which in turn makes the guys making fun of him seem rude, even if they didn't mean it.

I'd say that we should try to keep the banter to people we know. I'm not sure if a rule is necessary, but then again there are people who wouldn't care even if they knew it was a new player.

i'm glad someone else recognizes the new player angle as well

this game is pretty intimidating and it's not going to be obvious to someone that most of the server jumping down their throat is supposed to be a joke

The biggest issue I have is that it takes what could be a minor slip up that threatens to break player immersion and turns it into a huge wall of "huehuehuehuehue he broke da rooools" that does break player immersion. The rule exists for a reason and even the breach of the rule doesn't always do half the damage that the followup does.

Kor wrote:ICKY OCK spam is obnoxious and I wouldn't mind it being bannable but one random admin in our team of ~40 deciding they're going to start banning for a behavior thats been allowed for years seems unfair and impossible to follow for our players.

Pretty much this, OMG ICK IN THE OCK spam is annoying, at best just draws more attention to the incident and at worst turns into chain reaction ick ock ("NO IT CAN'T BE REV", and frowned upon. But the standard procedure* is to disable OOC and/or mute people, not serverban.

* for pilers-on, not the original IC OOC

Personally I think "ICKY OCKY" reaction actually does well to cover up the original offense, as well as publicly reinforce the idea that IC in OOC is not a thing you should do.

Removing that reaction is a slippery slope that has a chance of making players feel like there's no crackdown on it, especially when it occurs with no admins active.

Sligneris wrote:Personally I think "ICKY OCKY" reaction actually does well to cover up the original offense, as well as publicly reinforce the idea that IC in OOC is not a thing you should do.

Removing that reaction is a slippery slope that has a chance of making players feel like there's no crackdown on it, especially when it occurs with no admins active.

There are plenty of ways to politely tell someone that's not allowed in OOC if no admins are on that is perfectly acceptable. If you are going to minimod ooc you can at least for the duration have the professionalism of one.

>admins
>professionalism

bandit wrote:>admins
>professionalism

MOST of the admins tend to avoid filling the chat log with reminders that someone posted IC info in OOC though

bandit wrote:>admins
>professionalism

What goes on in asay/ntrhut stays in asay/ntrhut dumb

icky ocky reactions are fine to some extent, it's the community policing/hazing itself and its something thats existed for years. I'm pretty sure this was more to do with cobby noticing the player died of the bullying.

Do take this as a reminder though that players spend most of their time with other players and if you want new blood to stay you have to know when enough is enough

imblyings wrote:icky ocky reactions are fine to some extent, it's the community policing/hazing itself and its something thats existed for years. I'm pretty sure this was more to do with cobby noticing the player died of the bullying.

Do take this as a reminder though that players spend most of their time with other players and if you want new blood to stay you have to know when enough is enough

This was Bob's ban but I figured it was more on the "you guys made someone leave" than the "you said ick in OOC"

wow i got brain problems but yeah

that being said i don't ever want a server where people are banned for other making people leave, that's a slippery slope if there ever is one and really I do want this server to maintain a good balance between expecting players to not be bullies when they shouldn't but also being able to take the bullying and shrug it off.

Bullying new players sounds like a terrible thing to do, but anyone leaving from a bunch of spergs screaming ick ock needs to grow thicker skin

it's funny, and it socially shames people into not repeating their fuckup

It hasn't been funny since I was last admin.

I've taken to muting OOC whenever it happens, banning the offending player for how many ever minutes is appropriate, then re-opening it.

yeah but you've always been a sensitive faggot who muted ooc when people blasted you so it makes sense

REEEEEEEEEEEEE ICKY OCKY GET OUT MY OOC REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

this is a directive to admins

Don't ban people for ooc shaming, this hallowed tradition will be kept. What can be done is treating ooc shaming that becomes spammy like spam. Muting OOC is always an option if you don't want to wait until it gets too spammy or over-the-top abusive.

imblyings wrote:this is a directive to admins

Don't ban people for ooc shaming, this hallowed tradition will be kept. What can be done is treating ooc shaming that becomes spammy like spam. Muting OOC is always an option if you don't want to wait until it gets too spammy or over-the-top abusive.

I'm all for keeping tradition, however this appears to be in direct contrast with the opinion given in my ban thread about it being fair game now. A lot of good points have been stated for both sides here too, considering the new player perspective but also noting that people who leaves due to ICK shaming will never last.

So then, what is the policy? Are we going to need a headmin vote?

Late to this thread but literally whomst the fuck cares

>Inexperienced
>Immediately enables round crucial roles and antagonistic gameplay without bothering to read the wiki or ask an admin
>Reveals round crucial information that utterly railroads the rest of the round due to unignorable knowledge
>Somehow everyone else reacting to this is bad because they're scaring a (((new))) player

If they don't bother learning the bare minimum bones, why should we pad corners so they don't feel shunned? We have a wiki for a reason

oranges wrote:yeah but you've always been a sensitive faggot who muted ooc when people blasted you so it makes sense

That was three years ago, oranges, damn.

D&B wrote:>Inexperienced
>Immediately enables round crucial roles and antagonistic gameplay without bothering to read the wiki or ask an admin
>Reveals round crucial information that utterly railroads the rest of the round due to unignorable knowledge
>Somehow everyone else reacting to this is bad because they're scaring a (((new))) player

If they don't bother learning the bare minimum bones, why should we pad corners so they don't feel shunned? We have a wiki for a reason

Unless something has changed, all roles that can be enabled are enabled from the start. Thus, unless the new player that doesn't know the roles actively seeks them out to disable them, they'll have a chance to roll them. Acting like an asshole isn't going to bring new good players into the game nor is it going to encourage people to join the server if their impression after making even a light infraction is an autistic hazing ritual.

cedarbridge wrote:

D&B wrote:>Inexperienced
>Immediately enables round crucial roles and antagonistic gameplay without bothering to read the wiki or ask an admin
>Reveals round crucial information that utterly railroads the rest of the round due to unignorable knowledge
>Somehow everyone else reacting to this is bad because they're scaring a (((new))) player

If they don't bother learning the bare minimum bones, why should we pad corners so they don't feel shunned? We have a wiki for a reason

Unless something has changed, all roles that can be enabled are enabled from the start. Thus, unless the new player that doesn't know the roles actively seeks them out to disable them, they'll have a chance to roll them. Acting like an asshole isn't going to bring new good players into the game nor is it going to encourage people to join the server if their impression after making even a light infraction is an autistic hazing ritual.

it's always been really strange to me how ridiculously insular people try to make this community

like, what do you gain by trying to drive people off/not caring if others do?

Muh elitism etc.

slippery slope into banning for not using correct pronouns or calling someone a fag.

John_Oxford wrote:slippery slope into banning for not using correct pronouns or calling someone a fag.

The more I hear stuff like this, the more I think Goon might've been right on that one after all.

John_Oxford wrote:slippery slope into banning for not using correct pronouns or calling someone a fag.

please don't use the f word i am offended