/tg/Station 13

Should Xenobio spiders that are created friendly have friendly children? Every time xenobio makes a spider regardless of intention and it has babies, all of them grief because they don't get the master message.

maybe someone should code the message

its not tenable otherwise

code issue.

Kill the spiders.

No. Stop trying to make things safe.

As far as I'm aware the spiders aren't even beholden to the "mother" spider that laid them, though obviously it would make sense from an RP stance.

Counter to that: Spiders are dangerous, hostile mobs. They aggro on sight when spawned from gold slime/changelings, and the only thing that changes that is the sentience potion the xenobiologist/"master" gives. Either they should advise the spider not to lay eggs, or be prepared for the inevitable outcome.

a Xenobiologist should be responcible for the monsters it creates with the exception of a sentient mob breaking the rules by refusing its orders. If the Xenobiologist makes a egg capable spider sentient and doesn't control it, they should be accountable for the chaos it creates down the line.

Spiders as presented in game are less 'Space Vermin' and more 'out of control bioweapon'. Making them should be a gamble, like making the T-virus; one containment breach and your station dies in webs and chitin.

None of you lot don't even remember when you could take control of any spider just by clicking on one as a ghost.

Prevention is better than a cure and if you don't want spider griff, tell it to not have babies and if it does - ahelp it for defying you.

Anonmare wrote:None of you lot don't even remember when you could take control of any spider just by clicking on one as a ghost.

Prevention is better than a cure and if you don't want spider griff, tell it to not have babies and if it does - ahelp it for defying you.

Y-y-you still can

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:

Anonmare wrote:None of you lot don't even remember when you could take control of any spider just by clicking on one as a ghost.

Prevention is better than a cure and if you don't want spider griff, tell it to not have babies and if it does - ahelp it for defying you.

Y-y-you still can

only on snowdin

As they grow up into full fledged adult spiders they leave their mommy and make their own nest to catch prey. Cycle of life

Ezel wrote:As they grow up into full fledged adult spiders they leave their mommy and make their own nest to catch prey. Cycle of life

i missed your stupid posting, glad you're back

Armhulen wrote:

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:

Anonmare wrote:None of you lot don't even remember when you could take control of any spider just by clicking on one as a ghost.

Prevention is better than a cure and if you don't want spider griff, tell it to not have babies and if it does - ahelp it for defying you.

Y-y-you still can

only on snowdin

Still can, if they were born from a player-controlled spider


Also https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/30572

I am still adamant that spiders are grief bait. No other xeno spawns can go out of control like this. Everything either has to follow it's master or act like a normal player. Spiders give a free license to grief and are basically unstoppable. There is absolutely no reason to make a spider lay eggs outside of antag and the game neither hints at this, prevents it, or discourages you from doing so. It's like throwing yourself into a xeno egg spawned in xenobio except you have to make the egg yourself and it's not an event.

They should be held to the same standards everything else from xenobio is. Either follow orders or be treated like crew.

I'd rather they be blacklisted a la xenomorphs then the course suggested in the PR taken. It's raising the xenobiologists power level again and giving them a second avenue to a personal army that will get bwoinked if they disobey Glorious Leader Console Fiddler.

The whole point of xenobio being set up the way it is with airlocks and the like is that it has the potential to go horribly wrong and end up with swarms of spiders/slimes/whatever. (Admittedly containment has become problematic since structural damage allows spiders to eat doors, but the principle remains)

Arianya wrote:I'd rather they be blacklisted a la xenomorphs then the course suggested in the PR taken. It's raising the xenobiologists power level again and giving them a second avenue to a personal army that will get bwoinked if they disobey Glorious Leader Console Fiddler.

The whole point of xenobio being set up the way it is with airlocks and the like is that it has the potential to go horribly wrong and end up with swarms of spiders/slimes/whatever. (Admittedly containment has become problematic since structural damage allows spiders to eat doors, but the principle remains)

Spiders, past the first generation, are completely without control and SHOULD BE. If you want a subservient army, you take golems. If you want something better than a golem army then you're going to have to sacrifice subservience. So yeah don't do that shit close that pr

But guys we have to pad the corners or else you'll get hurt!

Why don't we just make xenobio doors max security?

Also Metastation is the only place with a xenobio design that explicitly makes containment breaches less dangerous with the whole - surrounded by space on all sides

Armhulen wrote:

Arianya wrote:I'd rather they be blacklisted a la xenomorphs then the course suggested in the PR taken. It's raising the xenobiologists power level again and giving them a second avenue to a personal army that will get bwoinked if they disobey Glorious Leader Console Fiddler.

The whole point of xenobio being set up the way it is with airlocks and the like is that it has the potential to go horribly wrong and end up with swarms of spiders/slimes/whatever. (Admittedly containment has become problematic since structural damage allows spiders to eat doors, but the principle remains)

Spiders, past the first generation, are completely without control and SHOULD BE. If you want a subservient army, you take golems. If you want something better than a golem army then you're going to have to sacrifice subservience. So yeah don't do that shit close that pr

A spider army, since it's player controlled, is going to do the maximum grief possible with exactly the same result every round they get out - a station and a shuttle full of spiders, with deathsquad somewhere in the mix if admins are on. Which is repetitive and therefore boring. It's not even really feasible as a weapon because they'll kill the creator as well.
With my PR they:
- Are not valid by default; meaning that an antag spiderlord could gather a massive "security spider force" and attack all at once at the right moment. They're still suspicious as fuck, of course.
- Can be more elaborate than just random murderbone - you could task them to get you an objective, kill a person or a group of people without harming others, or protect you or a location. This also works for independent spiders, as they can have some sort of leadership.
- Are no longer banbait - green-eyed spiders being able to reproduce is not obvious knowledge, so there are new xenobiologists who sentience them and let them do as they wish, leading to the station sying. This also kinda goes for the spiders, who don't necessarily know that their offspring will start murdering everyone, their master included.

I appreciate that you're proposing making modifications to the game mechanics of spiders. This thread is about policy implications behind their current implementation.

Anonmare wrote:None of you lot don't even remember when you could take control of any spider just by clicking on one as a ghost.

Prevention is better than a cure and if you don't want spider griff, tell it to not have babies and if it does - ahelp it for defying you.

lol whoops

oranges wrote:

Anonmare wrote:None of you lot don't even remember when you could take control of any spider just by clicking on one as a ghost.

Prevention is better than a cure and if you don't want spider griff, tell it to not have babies and if it does - ahelp it for defying you.

lol whoops

It made the game better

XDTM wrote:A spider army, since it's player controlled, is going to do the maximum grief possible with exactly the same result every round they get out - a station and a shuttle full of spiders, with deathsquad somewhere in the mix if admins are on. Which is repetitive and therefore boring. It's not even really feasible as a weapon because they'll kill the creator as well.
With my PR they:

- Are not valid by default; meaning that an antag spiderlord could gather a massive "security spider force" and attack all at once at the right moment. They're still suspicious as fuck, of course.

Please point me to how a player at a glance is meant to tell the difference between a swarm of non-valid "friendly spiders" and a swarm of AI controlled spiders that will quite happily murder him. Especially since if I recall correctly as-yet un-inhabited spiders use simple mob AI.

- Can be more elaborate than just random murderbone - you could task them to get you an objective, kill a person or a group of people without harming others, or protect you or a location. This also works for independent spiders, as they can have some sort of leadership.

And why should the xenobiologist have a second avenue to a personal army to do tasks for him? Legitimate question, what niche is filled by sentient and subservient spiders that isn't filled by golems? Sentient un-subservient spiders clearly fill the role of a chaos creator for an antag, and a potential backfire for a non-antag if they don't control their nurse properly, but I don't see the same niche for post PR spiders.

- Are no longer banbait - green-eyed spiders being able to reproduce is not obvious knowledge, so there are new xenobiologists who sentience them and let them do as they wish, leading to the station sying. This also kinda goes for the spiders, who don't necessarily know that their offspring will start murdering everyone, their master included.

There are plenty of ways to change the spiders to make them less banbaity without making them subservient to the xenobiologist. Examine changes, egg laying warnings for the nurse, etc etc.

Spiders being insane hyperdeadly bioweapons that are constantly out of control is the fun of them, stop buffing xenobio reeeeee

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Spiders being insane hyperdeadly bioweapons that are constantly out of control is the fun of them, stop buffing xenobio reeeeee

The solution to this is to have spiders by default be player controlled so they can spin out on their own accord since the whole gripe is that being born from an enslaved spider should not give you free antag, you should be enslaved to that spider/their master.

Consequently this would act as a sort of a natural risk of using gold slime cores until you can become changeling skeletor :^)

Please point me to how a player at a glance is meant to tell the difference between a swarm of non-valid "friendly spiders" and a swarm of AI controlled spiders that will quite happily murder him. Especially since if I recall correctly as-yet un-inhabited spiders use simple mob AI.

they use friendly mob AI

And why should the xenobiologist have a second avenue to a personal army to do tasks for him? Legitimate question, what niche is filled by sentient and subservient spiders that isn't filled by golems? Sentient un-subservient spiders clearly fill the role of a chaos creator for an antag, and a potential backfire for a non-antag if they don't control their nurse properly, but I don't see the same niche for post PR spiders.

xenobio already has a chaos creator called "gold slime core anything", spider is just a niche for "call the deathsquad because griffers ruined the round again", don't try and bullshit it.

Why are golem armies fine but spiders are not???

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Spiders being insane hyperdeadly bioweapons that are constantly out of control is the fun of them, stop buffing xenobio reeeeee

The solution to this is to have spiders by default be player controlled so they can spin out on their own accord since the whole gripe is that being born from an enslaved spider should not give you free antag, you should be enslaved to that spider/their master.

Consequently this would act as a sort of a natural risk of using gold slime cores until you can become changeling skeletor :^)

time to play xenobio every round and conveniently forget I made spiders every time until every round is spiders and you Nerf it

Maybe I will "suicide" "accidentally" when I make greens!

After "accidentally" filling the pen with monkeys of course

:^)

Yakumo_Chen wrote:

Please point me to how a player at a glance is meant to tell the difference between a swarm of non-valid "friendly spiders" and a swarm of AI controlled spiders that will quite happily murder him. Especially since if I recall correctly as-yet un-inhabited spiders use simple mob AI.

they use friendly mob AI

And why should the xenobiologist have a second avenue to a personal army to do tasks for him? Legitimate question, what niche is filled by sentient and subservient spiders that isn't filled by golems? Sentient un-subservient spiders clearly fill the role of a chaos creator for an antag, and a potential backfire for a non-antag if they don't control their nurse properly, but I don't see the same niche for post PR spiders.

xenobio already has a chaos creator called "gold slime core anything", spider is just a niche for "call the deathsquad because griffers ruined the round again", don't try and bullshit it.

Why are golem armies fine but spiders are not???

I never said golem armies are fine, but theres no reason to have two features working towards the same goal, and especially when golem armies are already in question over the amount of personal power they give xenobio (and by relation, R&D), for example places like here

And as you are so quick to bring up time and again, theres a difference between simple mob AI gold core group and a player controlled swarm of spiders. So, right back at you, don't bullshit.

And as you are so quick to bring up time and again, theres a difference between simple mob AI gold core group and a player controlled swarm of spiders. So, right back at you, don't bullshit

"spamming hostile gold slime core spawns is not deadly enough I need a niche that guarantees death squad"

Yakumo_Chen wrote:

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Spiders being insane hyperdeadly bioweapons that are constantly out of control is the fun of them, stop buffing xenobio reeeeee

The solution to this is to have spiders by default be player controlled so they can spin out on their own accord since the whole gripe is that being born from an enslaved spider should not give you free antag, you should be enslaved to that spider/their master.

Consequently this would act as a sort of a natural risk of using gold slime cores until you can become changeling skeletor :^)

time to play xenobio every round and conveniently forget I made spiders every time until every round is spiders and you Nerf it

Maybe I will "suicide" "accidentally" when I make greens!

After "accidentally" filling the pen with monkeys of course

:^)

whoops I accidentally went to player panel before accidentally hitting the job ban menu then accidentally clicking the purple heading and accidentally pressing no because I accidentally was too lazy to quantify a time for such memery

This is after spiders get nerfed though so it's like being a pawn who got to the other side of the board to become a queen only for the rook to take her out from the side uneventfully. MWAHAHAHAH

Oh wait I just revealed the plan