/tg/Station 13

Byond account and character name: Sonictom6, Character name not important as it was an OOC ban
Banning admin: thunder12345
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Rule 0
Ban reason and length: Rule 0 - Admitted to ban evasion on other servers, just because he thought those servers were shit. We do not want people who think this is reasonable behaviour
Time ban was placed (including time zone): Around 18:25 BST
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Your side of the story:People were speaking about how crap bans on byond were, and how easy they were to evade. I, in an attempt to bait, Claimed I had evaded a ban on yogstation. Whilst it wasn't true, a few people reacted but I didn't continue the bait, mainly because I didn't want to get punished for being a dick. Then, the subject changes and without messaging me, thunder immediately permabans me for admitting ban evasion. I could have explained to him I didn't actually do it, But he banned me instantly.
Why you think you should be unbanned: Because I never actually did it, I was just saying it in OOC to see what people said. I do think yog is shit, but that's completely besides the point. If I had actually ban evaded, I wouldn't be as stupid as to say it in OOC, Because I know full well an admin would ban me for it. Also, I don't see how I could have evaded the ban, as A: I have the same byond account and B: I have the same IP. Was it stupid to bait something like this in OOC? Probably, yeah. But I seriously don't think it's worth a permanent ban.

I warned you!

You joked about it, saying "You shouldn't reveal something like that" in OOC - You didnt send me an admin message or anything of the sort

I wasn't joking lol, I was just deadmin'd and thought it would do well to make it a public announcement rather than a private one

I ban evaded on CM and goon

I'll expect my perma in the post please

well ok

is it irrelevant PK penguin? where does the line on this ruling end?

If we're banning people for ban evading on other servers, shouldn't we be banning them for evading on other games?

Bragging about ban evading on other servers is a no-no for what I assume are obvious reasons but if you want to be a stinky doo doo head devil's advocate,
it gives us a pretty bad image and i mean good god, we're already suffering enough there
inter-server respect has always been a thing that the administration is supposed to uphold to some degree
mirroring bans from other servers is already a thing, is it so much to ask for people who get banned from other servers to NOT be retarded little shitheads and act like they're big cool guys for evading and brag about it in ooc?

we deserve a better class of criminal, for fuck's sake

Heh. Yeah, I ban evaded on yog. Totally owned those admins, am I right gamers?

no, dumbass. be smarter about being stupid next time

alright, that's pretty fair

Basically it's kind of really hard to tell if OP actually was just telling a bad joke, or if they were being serious
so the question is, does the ban stick to make an example of this behaviour, or is he given the benefit of the doubt despite this looking like desperation

danno wrote:Bragging about ban evading on other servers is a no-no for what I assume are obvious reasons

I respect servers, but I don't respect their rules.

Somebody evading say, a rule 4 ban on goon is more than welcomed here, because we either don't, or shouldn't, give two shits if you evade a ban for saying cuck or dick.

I also don't remember this being a formal policy. but I could be wrong.

It just seems like another silly push forward in the slippery slope of policing ooc conduct.

I'll unban you tomorrow EST if thunder doesn't answer, If you are ban evading just don't talk about it I guess.

MrStonedOne wrote:

danno wrote:Bragging about ban evading on other servers is a no-no for what I assume are obvious reasons

I respect servers, but I don't respect their rules.

Somebody evading say, a rule 4 ban on goon is more than welcomed here, because we either don't, or shouldn't, give two shits if you evade a ban for saying cuck or dick.

I also don't remember this being a formal policy. but I could be wrong.

It just seems like another silly push forward in the slippery slope of policing ooc conduct.

Coming here because you had a rule 4 ban on goon is fine, that's not really evasion, but are you really going to say that it's fine for them to talk shit and brag about evading on goon just because they or you don't agree with their rules?
You're saying it's fine to go on their and break their rules, their laws and just go "yeah well i'd rather play by my OWN laws"

if you are, then it should be fine to ban evade on /tg/station too.

Joining these servers and playing them is a privilege, not some sort of human right. Respecting the rules of each server should be the bare minimum you expect from people.

Coming to the server because you're banned from another one isn't a problem, just to clarify

Shadowlight was the one who suggested perma'ing him. Seriously though, if you brag about evading on other servers, don't be surprised if people think you aren't worth keeping around.

Thunder11 wrote:Shadowlight was the one who suggested perma'ing him. Seriously though, if you brag about evading on other servers, don't be surprised if people think you aren't worth keeping around.

Or maybe building character, personality, and psychological profiles of users based on ooc jokes then using that to determine their worth isn't exactly a sane idea.

Saying "this person is admitting to evading on another server, do we really want someone who thinks it' reasonable to do that and then brag about it" is not "building character, personality and psychological profiles". Note that he is, in fact, permabanned on Yog, so it should be fairly obvious why it doesn't look very joke like.

>do we really want someone who thinks it' reasonable to do that and then brag about it

I think the moment you start asking this question about non-disruptive ooc conduct, you've already lost.

it stands to reason that a player who doesn't care for the rules of another server and evades bans on that server to cause trouble is a player who would do the same on this server

if you think that it's fine to evade /tg/station bans and brag about it, then that's that
but you can't have it two ways, either we respect the rules of all servers individually or nothing

danno wrote:it stands to reason that a player who doesn't care for the rules of another server and evades bans on that server to cause trouble is a player who would do the same on this server

No it doesn't. A players respect for the rules is a reflection of their respect for the server and its administration, and there are a lot of servers where it's hard to feel respect for the server and/or its administration, that's on them, and isn't anything we have to give a fuck about.

danno wrote: if you think that it's fine to evade /tg/station bans and brag about it, then that's that
but you can't have it two ways, either we respect the rules of all servers individually or nothing

This is basically a strawman.

The point I'm trying to get across is that your entire justification for this rule 0 ban is an assumption about the players attitudes towards us, and the/all/our rules, based on a potential joke said over ooc chat about some other server.

Since thunder pinged me saying "It's your turn",
This is what I saw. Hot IRC leaks here.
We were talking about stickyban screwing up, then

[19:26] <%Thunder11> OOC: Sonictom6: I've evaded bans on other servers (i.e. yog because yog admins are a meme) by using VM ware
[19:26] <%Thunder11> HMM
[19:26] <@Shadowmobile> Ban
[19:27] <%Thunder11> Just go with the full perma and shit?
[19:29] <@Shadowmobile> Yes
[19:30] <%Thunder11> Gone

I assumed that your hmm meant the account itself was suspicious, so you thought they might be evading a ban.
I was given no context of the conversation leading up to this. No reasoning to assume it had anything to do with a joke.
I simply gave a recommendation based on that line. I never said rule 0 or anything about people thinking it's reasonable behavior.
I thought you would apply your own judgement based on the clearer picture you had.

Since you never asked about any other context, I was assuming that reply was based just off of what he said. Lifted, and let's all take this as a lesson in asking for context first, and not baiting people.

MrStonedOne wrote:

danno wrote:it stands to reason that a player who doesn't care for the rules of another server and evades bans on that server to cause trouble is a player who would do the same on this server

No it doesn't. A players respect for the rules is a reflection of their respect for the server and its administration, and there are a lot of servers where it's hard to feel respect for the server and/or its administration, that's on them, and isn't anything we have to give a fuck about.

danno wrote: if you think that it's fine to evade /tg/station bans and brag about it, then that's that
but you can't have it two ways, either we respect the rules of all servers individually or nothing

This is basically a strawman.

The point I'm trying to get across is that your entire justification for this rule 0 ban is an assumption about the players attitudes towards us, and the/all/our rules, based on a potential joke said over ooc chat about some other server.

I don't think the rule 0 ban should stick but I believe it needs to be understood why it happened, and why it had to happen
There is no value in this sort of thing happening. Honestly if it was a joke sonictom needs to work on his delivery, unless it was his intention to make it seem like a genuine and unironic statement.
And that kind of statement has to be taken seriously, doesn't it?

Since this was lifted I'll consider this resolved and the "can/should people banned here for doing X on other servers" should be taken to policy discussion.

Good communication all around is very important to avoid situations like these!