/tg/Station 13

Fluff is tentative. Details are tentative.

EDIT: I snipped the details as I'm satisfied with the initial pitch and I don't want to skew opinions too far before I reveal the first iteration, which is currently in progress. I hope you guys will have fun with it once I am done.

tl;dr Rev vs Rev: the game mode. It's also not going to be derivative of goon's gang mode.

Needs a tertiary win condition for implanted people so they aren't just doomed to lose no matter what happens.

Lest less people play sec.

I'd like to see a Group Antag vs Group Antag mode, but I'd prefer to see it in a way similar to Goon's Gang mode, where joining a group is voluntary. Rev has the issue of people getting dragged into the conflict no matter what, which is a problem because someone might not be in the mood to crack skulls or might be a new player who isn't familiar with the game yet.

Are icons completely necessary? I think icons are fine for the current modes we have, but I feel that a big DIS GUY ON UR TEAM symbol detracts a lot from possible espionage and intrigue. Other methods of identification could be used, like armbands or silly hats or something. It'd also give an advantage to smaller tight-knit groups who can keep track of their members vs bigger groups with strength in numbers, which breaks the current paradigm for Rev/Cult which is "bigger is better, CONVERT RUSH KEKEKE".

Coderbus brought up an idea that only bosses should be able to identify their mobsters. The mobsters themselves would only be able to identify their own mob bosses. It's an interesting idea worth exploring. It certainly shakes up the dynamic existing in rev and cult. I'm concerned with how admins would handle this, and when it would be considered okay for mobsters to kill others (and risk team-killing).

Incoming wrote:Needs a tertiary win condition for implanted people so they aren't just doomed to lose no matter what happens.

Lest less people play sec.

I'm interested in implementing a goal that security can strive towards. I don't suppose you have any ideas to offer?

Perhaps if security managed to put all the mob bosses into perma/gulag?
Perhaps I could add the death of the Captain as a victory requirement for mafias. And security would win by killing/exiling all the mob bosses with the Captain still alive.

While not anybody seeing who is on their side and who isn't could be a good idea, since Sec can just implant mass and follow that same old strategy it doesn't help in that case. Sec has all the coordination and equipment needed to win with the mass-implant maneuver.

Cipher3 wrote:While not anybody seeing who is on their side and who isn't could be a good idea, since Sec can just implant mass and follow that same old strategy it doesn't help in that case. Sec has all the coordination and equipment needed to win with the mass-implant maneuver.

This is a fair point. Security would be extremely overpowered if the kept the same strength they have in rev, as it'd just be like sec vs an infighting rev.

I'll likely remove the deconversion power of implants (like cult). I don't want security to grow too large too easily, especially if the mafias have a hard time figuring out their own allies. They should have to face the same self-suspicion the mafias have to deal with.

Ideally, I'd like security to be the smaller third party, with the primary belligerents being the two mafias.

It sounds like the gameplay of this mode would be very similar to existing revolution: convert as many people as possible, then murder everyone who's not on your side. Instead of adding another slightly different conversion mechanic, why not remove conversions entirely?

Maybe each mafia family is roughly five people with a single Don. Mafia people can see who's in their family and who's in the other family. They also know who their Don is, but they don't know which member of the other family is Don. The two families try to equip themselves to take over the station by killing the other Don and the captain.

Because each family is spread out across multiple departments, gearing up for an all-out gang war is going to involve lots of smuggling dangerous goods between departments for security to catch onto and try to stop. Eventually both families are going to be trying to fuck the station over in ways that will hurt everyone else more than it hurts themselves. But at the same time, they're not going to be indiscriminately killing people in the halls, because that'll just result in security focusing on them and letting the other family off easy. I think it could be good as a way to encourage group antag play that's still less chaotic than rev or nuke ops.

Mafiosos start with random suits, black lace-up shoes, and sunglasses in their backpack.

Ikarrus wrote:--Coderbus brought up an idea that only bosses should be able to identify their mobsters. The mobsters themselves would only be able to identify their own mob bosses.

Ha, that's something I brought up when talking about rev few times.

Overall, this would be a nightmare for security. Especially if captain's death is a win condition. My opinion: not until rev is not as shitty as it is.

So what makes this different from rev other than having two waves of greytide that security has to deal with?

Reimoo wrote:So what makes this different from rev other than having two waves of greytide that security has to deal with?

Well, it's more like all-non-red tide and there's two of them killing eachother at the same time so it's like, MOAR ANARCHY, and super FUN.

Cipher3 wrote: Well, it's more like all-non-red tide and there's two of them killing eachother at the same time so it's like, MOAR ANARCHY, and super FUN.

So it's rev x2? Where does the ultra fancy mobster stuff come in?

Interesting concept but honestly its just a alternative version of Rev where Security dies even quicker and the round will take longer to end.

The only way you can encourage the two sides to be more sneaky or subtle is if they cannot recruit members.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm in the midst of developing the first iteration now.

It's going to be very rough, and likely pretty crappy. But I am a firm believer in a rapid iterative approach to design. I'm likely going to be making radical changes for this and testing it (By keeping it an admin-only game mode) until we get something with at least the level of enjoyment as the existing game modes.

Or it will crash and burn. We'll see.

For example. a couple of the switches I intend to fiddle with are recruitment methods and resource management.

Yes. All of this sounds great.

What about a Syndicate Uplink though? The Don starts with the uplink and gets 20 TC to spend, preferably on his goons, to gear them up. For every 15 people above 50 total player count, the Don gets 5 more TC. Weapons are all provided by the Syndicate but sometimes not as inconspicuous and are more Mafia-like.

•Energy Dagger: 18 brute per hit when on, 10 when off(when off looks like kitchen knife, also where did I see this?) (3 TC)
•Desert Eagle: 7 round clip, but same damage as Revolver cuz it's all bout being trill
•Plasteel Bat: loud, unstealthy weapon with high knockdown probability when aiming for legs and high knockout when aiming for head. 15 brute with one hand, 20 when wielded, cannot fit in backpack, chance of hitting tasers/lasers/thrown objects back (6 TC)
• AK-47(gold/silver plated or classic): same damage as Stechkin(>inb4 going all /k/ on me, I understand 39mm AK round is stronger) 30 round banana clip, chance of piercing armor, wearable on back, can only be shot when wielded, comes with classic Soviet bayonet and hitting someone with it(not shooting point blank, I mean harm intent) is 16 brute (10 TC)

Just some ideas, because Mafia should be all about looking cool and intimidating. And street cred.

Fragnostic wrote:Yes. All of this sounds great.

What about a Syndicate Uplink though? The Don starts with the uplink and gets 20 TC to spend, preferably on his goons, to gear them up. For every 15 people above 50 total player count, the Don gets 5 more TC. Weapons are all provided by the Syndicate but sometimes not as inconspicuous and are more Mafia-like.

•Energy Dagger: 18 brute per hit when on, 10 when off(when off looks like kitchen knife, also where did I see this?) (3 TC)
•Desert Eagle: 7 round clip, but same damage as Revolver cuz it's all bout being trill
•Plasteel Bat: loud, unstealthy weapon with high knockdown probability when aiming for legs and high knockout when aiming for head. 15 brute with one hand, 20 when wielded, cannot fit in backpack, chance of hitting tasers/lasers/thrown objects back (6 TC)
• AK-47(gold/silver plated or classic): same damage as Stechkin(>inb4 going all /k/ on me, I understand 39mm AK round is stronger) 30 round banana clip, chance of piercing armor, wearable on back, can only be shot when wielded, comes with classic Soviet bayonet and hitting someone with it(not shooting point blank, I mean harm intent) is 16 brute (10 TC)

Just some ideas, because Mafia should be all about looking cool and intimidating. And street cred.

this sounds like it would just make mafia nuke ops 2: electric boogaloo

In a weird way, I think a Gang Mode should not be about forcing people to join your side (aka: Rev 2.0).

People can willingly join a gang if they wish, but generally the gangs won't really bother the crew and vice versa. With the exception of Security.

I am interested in seeing how a gang mode would work on /tg/, but my main concern is that it will just devolve into a alternative version of Revolution but with two antag factions.

Fragnostic wrote:Yes. All of this sounds great.

What about a Syndicate Uplink though? The Don starts with the uplink and gets 20 TC to spend, preferably on his goons, to gear them up. For every 15 people above 50 total player count, the Don gets 5 more TC. Weapons are all provided by the Syndicate but sometimes not as inconspicuous and are more Mafia-like.

•Energy Dagger: 18 brute per hit when on, 10 when off(when off looks like kitchen knife, also where did I see this?) (3 TC)
•Desert Eagle: 7 round clip, but same damage as Revolver cuz it's all bout being trill
•Plasteel Bat: loud, unstealthy weapon with high knockdown probability when aiming for legs and high knockout when aiming for head. 15 brute with one hand, 20 when wielded, cannot fit in backpack, chance of hitting tasers/lasers/thrown objects back (6 TC)
• AK-47(gold/silver plated or classic): same damage as Stechkin(>inb4 going all /k/ on me, I understand 39mm AK round is stronger) 30 round banana clip, chance of piercing armor, wearable on back, can only be shot when wielded, comes with classic Soviet bayonet and hitting someone with it(not shooting point blank, I mean harm intent) is 16 brute (10 TC)

Just some ideas, because Mafia should be all about looking cool and intimidating. And street cred.

>clip

Steelpoint wrote:People can willingly join a gang

>letting people get griffing license at will

Maybe instead of it being flashes to recruit, make it something that's, easy to voluntarily handle, but possible to force if you just need more manpower, I suggest having the two gangs have some form of food or drink item that 'converts' people to your gang as a part of 'initiation.' Sort of like how Holy Water can deconvert cultists. This can also possibly have a general 'de gangifier' food (Sprinkles, considering they heal security?) That'd counter the effect.

Mind you I don't know how one would acquire this food item besides an uplink of some form, or how expensive it'd be to buy, but it was an idea.

I think there should be no conversions period. If we look at how organized crime works in the past, we know that criminal organizations spread nothing like how a revolution would. Instead they use intimidation/bribery etc to gain influence over key political/social targets and they use this as a means to an end.

So imagine security being under the thumb of one gang and cargo under the other, or imagine the mafia bribing the chemists to smuggle drugs out of chemistry under the CMO's nose. Now I don't know how this influence thing would work gameplay wise, but it's just a thought to consider.

However, if we're just going for thug lyfe gangsta shit then it might as well be revolution vs revolution.

If we're trying to make it about how the 'mafia' influences people then why not let them influence security? Having security officers be able to join particular teams or be paid off by one or the other might make a really big difference to the fun for the players in there. If we have police, they might as well be able to be corrupt as well.

Well that's kind of what I was implying, you can't have a mafia game mode without having crooked cops too.

Reimoo wrote:Well that's kind of what I was implying, you can't have a mafia game mode without having crooked cops too.

I think you could snowflake this one by just making the implant not check for or block mafia affiliation. Kinda like how lings and essentially every other antag don't care about being implanted.

Sorry for the necro, but are we doing this?

I personally like the idea of two antag factions duking it out while the neutral/non antag faction tries to survive the mess, aka goon gang mode, or something kinda similar, such as this.

Well there's a PR for it, so it's possible that we're doing this.

Nobody in coderbus wants to take responsibility for merging it. It's been sitting there for weeks now.

Filibustering, coderbus style.