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Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it gets in
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:21 pm
by ma44
original pr here
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/27099
As of right now, exporting 100 sheets of any mineral (as it uses amount) will instantly make it valued at 1 point and will take about 33.3(!) minutes to actually get back up to 100%, which is a bit stupid considering thats like 1/4 - 1/2 the round
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:58 pm
by Armhulen
How will Harry Robinson ever recover?
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:05 pm
by iamgoofball
it's almost like infinite saturation of the market would drop the price or something
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:09 pm
by Cobby
Have you considered selling something else?
[or stocks]
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:21 pm
by ohnopigeons
iamgoofball wrote:it's almost like infinite saturation of the market would drop the price or something
>100 sheets will saturate the market
What kind of fucking market is this?
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:19 pm
by Grazyn
Not really the market but the demand of Centcom. "Alright you sent 100 plasma, that's enough for now, send something else"
Reminder that SS13 isn't a mining station, it's a research station. You're not sending minerals in bulk, you're sending samples of the ores found on Lavaland, and prototypes of the new stuff you're researching. Miners should be more accurately called "prospectors", they're prospecting the planet below for further exploitation by NT: if the minerals are deemed viable, NT is probably just going to drop a massive mining network and strip mine the whole planet.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:27 pm
by ohnopigeons
The main export IS plasma. The research station simply doubles as a hub for mining activities. The mining base and the miners are part of the mining network and strip mining, they simply can't increase in scale because Lavaland is too hazardous.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:39 pm
by Grazyn
NT has access to military-grade equipment and weaponry that far surpass those available on SS13, I doubt they would consider lavaland monsters and even megafauna "hazardous" given that a basic trained civilian miner can easily deal with them. The crew is there to find out if it's actually worth it.
Plasma has always been available in large quantities on the station, either in gas, liquid or solid form, the main purpose isn't to export it but to research on it.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:41 pm
by ohnopigeons
That's not what both lore and the code say.
Anyways I've checked Goof's math and exporting 10, not 100, of any item will drop an item's price to 1.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:42 pm
by D&B
Grazyn wrote:NT has access to military-grade equipment and weaponry that far surpass those available on SS13, I doubt they would consider lavaland monsters and even megafauna "hazardous" given that a basic trained civilian miner can easily deal with them. The crew is there to find out if it's actually worth it.
Plasma has always been available in large quantities on the station, either in gas, liquid or solid form, the main purpose isn't to export it but to research on it.
Excuse me but I'll have you read my 22 pages of backstory before you call my characters basic trained civilian miners.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:42 pm
by iamgoofball
I'll fix the math.
lore is no excuse for bad gameplay
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:55 pm
by Grazyn
ohnopigeons wrote:That's not what both lore and the code say.
It's real in my mind
Seriously though, that's what the wiki says
Welcome! Space Station 13 is a top bottom of the line plasma research facility located somewhere in deep space.
Reasons for Existence[edit]
Plasma research, especially exothermic potential: dedicated science teams on hand for this purpose at all times. It is implied that Space Station 12 had even more. Since Space Station 13's construction, tighter regulations on research limits have been drafted in this field, bringing up a lot of questions from high-ranked employees.
Secondary directives: while a particular use has yet to be determined for the new station at this time, you can expect to see the station become used as a mining outpost, refueling station, supply depot, prison work release program, or some other application before activation is complete.
Mining comes last, under secondary directives, and it's an
outpost, not even a proper mining network. Cargo credits are a sort of incentive used by NT to reward for good work, which should be research, not mining 200 units of plasma and be set for the rest of your life.
And lastly, IIRC explorer suits were called prospector suits at some point, so even the code is on my side.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:01 pm
by ohnopigeons
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:06 pm
by Grazyn
Mining asteroid was added long after 2010. This alone should show you that exporting plasma isn't the reason why you're here. It's plasma research
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:08 pm
by ohnopigeons
Grazyn wrote:Mining asteroid was added long after 2010. This alone should show you that exporting plasma isn't the reason why you're here. It's plasma research
It's
both. The two aren't
mutually exclusive.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:15 pm
by Grazyn
If it's both you should get equal rewards from both and not infinite, easy credits from plasma sheets and scraps from everything else
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:19 pm
by ShadowDimentio
ohnopigeons wrote:iamgoofball wrote:it's almost like infinite saturation of the market would drop the price or something
>100 sheets will saturate the market
What kind of fucking market is this?
I'd fail you if I was your macroeconomics professor, Goof. If I open a lemonade stand and sell lemonade for a quarter the lemonade market isn't going to implode due to me underselling.
The amount you'd have to export in order to see even a small drop in prices would be hundreds of thousands of sheets of metal.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:25 pm
by ohnopigeons
ShadowDimentio wrote:I'd fail you if I was your macroeconomics professor, Goof.
I'd fail you too since this is clearly a microeconomics problem, not a macroeconomics one.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:21 pm
by Grazyn
I think a lot of confusion derives from cargo credits being the same as space credits, aka money. It doesn't make sense for NT to buy our resources with actual money, SS13 isn't a subsidiary of NT, it's a station owned by NT. One could say that NT is selling the plasma and they send part of the profit back to the station, but this also is in conflict with the lore: who are they selling it to? It's stated in the lore that most of the galaxy hates NT. And why are they selling it? Plasma is a rare strategic resource, it's used for energy production, weapons manufactory and all sort of powercreep stuff, NT isn't going to give it away no matter the price.
Is it really money what we're getting from Centcom? It's used to "buy" supplies and recreation equipment, but it's useless outside of that. Yesterday I tried to buy a pair of yellow gloves from an engineer with a wad of 500 credits in cash, and they refused saying "That's not real money, its' worthless". I literally threw it at them, and you know what they did? They threw it in the trash. That's right, 500 credits right in the trash, that's how much the crew values money.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:30 pm
by D&B
Like anarcho capitalism but valids instead of money.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:36 pm
by ohnopigeons
Grazyn wrote:snip
There's no such thing as real money. Currency is a medium of exchange for goods and services. Cargo points function in this regard. Space cash could technically function this way but they don't because they're too much of a hassle and there exists a complete lack of circulation/adoption.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:58 pm
by bandit
Grazyn wrote:Is it really money what we're getting from Centcom? It's used to "buy" supplies and recreation equipment, but it's useless outside of that. Yesterday I tried to buy a pair of yellow gloves from an engineer with a wad of 500 credits in cash, and they refused saying "That's not real money, its' worthless". I literally threw it at them, and you know what they did? They threw it in the trash. That's right, 500 credits right in the trash, that's how much the crew values money.
to be fair it actually was worthless until exports were added
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:51 pm
by cedarbridge
E C O N O M Y S Y S T E M
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 5:20 am
by Yakumo_Chen
Aren't cargo points just corporate scrip? They aren't worth anything outside of Nanotrasen, you can only use them to import cargo. Sending Nanotrasen materials wouldn't have any impact on a scrip economy, and most things sent there aren't even sold, they're just used.
Plus, Nanotrasen ALWAYS needs plasma, they would have no reason to (even artificially) lower its value.
Doubly so if you've emagged it and are sending it to the syndicate instead. They want that plasma more then anything.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 5:26 am
by kevinz000
>goofball using the wrong fixes for the problem
lol
what else is new
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:42 pm
by ohnopigeons
What are the right fixes then?
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:36 am
by iamgoofball
itt: lorefags and R&D shills bitch about me nerfing OP shit
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:19 am
by iamgoofball
>cargo making infinite points
>Nerf infinite point generation
>"WOOOOW WTF"
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 4:30 am
by ShadowDimentio
Your nerf makes no sense though and doesn't address the problem. Congratulations you've made it marginally more annoying to trickle-sell materials, now they'll just sell in bulk instead.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 6:18 am
by Armhulen
>tries to fix infinite points
>people can just add coins to the vault with the material instead
>fixed nothing
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 7:22 am
by iamgoofball
ShadowDimentio wrote:Your nerf makes no sense though and doesn't address the problem. Congratulations you've made it marginally more annoying to trickle-sell materials, now they'll just sell in bulk instead.
>selling in bulk applies the same effects
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 7:23 am
by iamgoofball
Armhulen wrote:>tries to fix infinite points
>people can just add coins to the vault with the material instead
>fixed nothing
thanks for pointing out an exploit, will fix
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 7:31 am
by Armhulen
iamgoofball wrote:Armhulen wrote:>tries to fix infinite points
>people can just add coins to the vault with the material instead
>fixed nothing
thanks for pointing out an exploit, will fix
probably for the best
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:05 pm
by ohnopigeons
ITT no one reads the code and just argue over what they think the PR changed and not what it actually changes
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:49 am
by calzilla1
This pr is fucking retarded. Also, who thinks cargo is OP, sans emag buying
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:58 pm
by tacolizard
iamgoofball wrote:it's almost like infinite saturation of the market would drop the price or something
It's almost like NT is a private company not a market and they order these minerals specifically for research purposes.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 5:36 pm
by ohnopigeons
BIG LIST OF THINGS THAT DON'T GET SATURATED
- Plasma
- Crates
- Paperwork
- Syndicate Documents
THINGS THAT GET SATURATED FASTER THAN NORMAL
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 5:58 pm
by iamgoofball
>Plasma
This needs to be saturated too. Stop letting lore get in the way of balance.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:09 pm
by ohnopigeons
I'd rather the cost of plasma be reduced than let it saturate.
Also
Code: Select all
// Materials. Nothing but plasma is really worth selling. Better leave it all to RnD and sell some plasma instead.
// Bananium. Exporting it makes the clown cry. Priceless.
/datum/export/material/bananium
cost = 5000
material_id = MAT_BANANIUM
message = "cm3 of bananium"
// Diamonds. Rare and expensive.
/datum/export/material/diamond
cost = 2500
material_id = MAT_DIAMOND
message = "cm3 of diamonds"
// Plasma. The oil of 26 century. The reason why you are here.
/datum/export/material/plasma
cost = 500
k_elasticity = 0
material_id = MAT_PLASMA
message = "cm3 of plasma"
// Uranium. Still useful for both power generation and nuclear annihilation.
/datum/export/material/uranium
cost = 400
material_id = MAT_URANIUM
message = "cm3 of uranium"
Diamond is 5x better than plasma and uranium is comparable to plasma. For the first 50 sheets or so saturation is negligible (25% cost reduction vs before PR).
But I'll guess I'll make a PR to reduce plasma cost.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:20 pm
by Steelpoint
Plasma should be a consistent item you can export and get money from, but I do agree it should be nerfed somewhat in how much money a 50 stack can give.
Though to be fair I did use plasma as my funding to buy the Raven Escape Ship.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:54 pm
by ohnopigeons
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:22 pm
by iamgoofball
iamgoofball wrote:Stop letting lore get in the way of balance.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:06 pm
by ohnopigeons
Lowered cost is more balanced than enabling saturation.
Steelpoint wrote:Plasma should be a consistent item you can export and get money from, but I do agree it should be nerfed somewhat in how much money a 50 stack can give.
My PR gives less points
(than yours) for stealing Engineering's plasma stack and calling it a day while still keeping cargo's focus around plasma.
Your PR does not.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:14 pm
by Qbopper
iamgoofball wrote:iamgoofball wrote:Stop letting lore get in the way of balance.
stop posting this again and again and try to compromise with people about it
there are different ways to do things than the one you (or someone else) has in mind and spouting the same thing over and over will get you nowhere fast
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:51 pm
by iamgoofball
Lore literally has no place in game balance. Just because my OC is a super sayian doesn't mean I give him the power to explode the station with a verb.
I refuse to compromise for people who refuse to look at this as a video game, because it is a video game.
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:57 pm
by DemonFiren
>character design = lore
look at this retard
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:56 am
by iamgoofball
DemonFiren wrote:>character design = lore
look at this retard
>make point that just because lore says im a super sayian doesnt mean i should get a verb to destroy the station to reflect the point of "just because lore says it doesnt mean it should be"
>*pushes up glasses, snorting* "AHEM, CHARACTER DESIGN" *pauses to use asthma inhaler* "ISN'T EQUAL TO LORE, THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS!!!"
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:01 am
by DemonFiren
>it's a goof tries to start shit because people won't agree with his objectively wrong views episode
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:48 pm
by Qbopper
iamgoofball wrote:I refuse to compromise (with people who have a view I disagree with)
this is the entire point of a compromise
if you don't at least make a token attempt to compromise then you really should just be ignored, because screeching about how everyone else is wrong until you get exactly what you want results in everyone dismissing you as a retard, and you can never recover from that
iamgoofball wrote:people who refuse to look at this as a video game, because it is a video game.
dnd is just a tabletop game, why the fuck are you worrying about world building, killing shit and getting loot is the whole point
just because you may not appreciate the elements of the game that aren't directly related to gameplay doesn't mean no one else does or that those people are wrong, and if you actually think you can just ignore the people who do care about that sort of thing, you're a damn fool
DemonFiren wrote:>it's a goof tries to start shit because people won't agree with his objectively wrong views episode
you're being just as bad as goof
Re: Feedback for goofball's "balances cargo" for when it get
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 2:01 pm
by calzilla1
Can someone please just port goon cargo. It's more interactive, fun, and less "push crates git munz to buy stupid shit because no one ever asks cargo to do anything"