/tg/Station 13

Why the fuck does it show up when there are only 40 personnel on station. Its bigger than fucking delta

Maybe it's perimeter but a lot of it is space and space bridges

I told them to raise the player configs on it multiple times but they don't seem to care.

I guess I'll swing the axe on this as well

The headmins raised it to 50 this is a good start

80's probably too much for one jump

60 is the sweet spot for Cere imo

Raise it to 60, I'd say even 50 is a bit too low.

I really don't even see why it's in in the code at all. It has literally gigantic problems and just overally terrible design. The only reason to have it is "le unique station that isn't Box" fixing a problem that never existed.

you mustn't have thought very hard

Im not sure many people do on both opposite sides of the fence as much as they should, as to creating such a station fraught with problems, and summarily going completely ape when they are presented with a map as a pseudo justifcation because its bad leading to this sharp rise in greytide which of course makes the map even more unfun for everyone involved.

Both of these things are intertwined, but the map is the egg to the chicken.

Make a omlette oranges and can it please, this charade has been going on for a while all over the forums, IRC, github & OOC for what feels like ages.

It's almost like a make that strays from the norm is going to have differing opinions on both sides, good or bad.

Canning a map because of personal issues you find with the map and a shitty part of the playerbase using it as an excuse to grief the station and fuck up other people's round is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Maybe perhaps. Its basically dirty protest on playing through a WIP map that still needs more monumental work done and possibly some contracted outside mapper input to just hurry it along to a state which when polished up and refined could actually be a pretty station.

Fix Cere's blatant playability issues regarding missing items or remove it from the rotation.

Also cere actually lowers the playercount. People are leaving rounds that are on cere because it's not fun.

If people would tell me about said missing items, then sure, I'd happily throw up a PR to fix said missing items.

MMMiracles wrote:It's almost like a make that strays from the norm is going to have differing opinions on both sides, good or bad.

Canning a map because of personal issues you find with the map and a shitty part of the playerbase using it as an excuse to grief the station and fuck up other people's round is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

The problem isn't that it strays from the norm, it's just ugly. The floor tiles are all the same, the hallways are too long and spaced, workplaces are annoying because you have to walk across the room for everything, the layout of the departments is annoying, and probably plenty of other more detailed issues that I haven't come across yet because taking an in-depth look in it is not worth my time.

MMMiracles wrote:If people would tell me about said missing items, then sure, I'd happily throw up a PR to fix said missing items.

It shouldn't the players' job to find the problems with your map. Put it in the time and effort yourself to find and fix them.

Watched a blob pretty much stealth win on Ceres today by hiding in a tunnel somewhere and getting up to 200/275 mass before being spotted

I think I'll ask about raising the minimum further

Would you say that most of the criticisms of Cere are mechanical, or cosmetic? Because the latter can easily be fixed.

tetracobalt wrote: The problem isn't that it strays from the norm, it's just ugly. The floor tiles are all the same,

First I've ever heard issues with flooring issues, sounds more personal than anything.

tetracobalt wrote: the hallways are too long and spaced,

That tends to happen when you make a big station. Good thing you got those quantum pads to hop across the station quickly.

tetracobalt wrote:workplaces are annoying because you have to walk across the room for everything,

Welcome to literally every station unless they map everything to be within a 3x3 reach.

tetracobalt wrote:the layout of the departments is annoying,

Thank you for this vague complaint that gives me nothing to go off of except for the fact you apparently dislike how they're currently set up.

tetracobalt wrote:and probably plenty of other more detailed issues that I haven't come across yet because taking an in-depth look in it is not worth my time.

vague assumptions with little base and doesn't add anything to feedback, woop

tetracobalt wrote:It shouldn't the players' job to find the problems with your map. Put it in the time and effort yourself to find and fix them.

Well if you can tell me items are missing then obviously you know which items are missing because you noticed that something was missing in the first place, right? Not telling me the items and complaining solves nothing and telling me to just 'go figure it out for yourself' just makes it worse. God forbid I miss something while mapping the entire station.

Are we going to have to make a actual blueprint mapping guidelines for piping & object configurations because people either have inflated expectations of objects or are missing some because a small handful of mappers made consistency errors causing such inflictions.

This really feels like the direction this is heading.

DrPillzRedux wrote:Fix Cere's blatant playability issues regarding missing items or remove it from the rotation.

Also cere actually lowers the playercount. People are leaving rounds that are on cere because it's not fun.

but are they leaving because of the map or are they leaving because of the contingent of dipshits who throw a tantrum every time they're served a drink in anything other than their favourite tomee tippee cup

chicken vs egg problem, as scree said

on the one hand people might be rage quitting because it's cere - on the other, people might be quitting because when it rolls around to cere people have a hissy fit

it's like when map rotation was first added, if the map changed off of box people assumed they had license to griff

Qbopper it's already been several months since the map was introduced. You yourself said that Cerestation needed a month to accurately gauge and judge, and we're way past that. I think it's pretty safe to say that the community reaction to the map has reached an equilibrium point and things will continue this way ad infinitum.

ohnopigeons wrote:Qbopper it's already been several months since the map was introduced. You yourself said that Cerestation needed a month to accurately gauge and judge, and we're way past that. I think it's pretty safe to say that the community reaction to the map has reached an equilibrium point and things will continue this way ad infinitum.

I'm really not interested in starting an argument over this, all I was trying to say is that people might be quitting when it turns to cere because of the map, or they might be quitting because of the people getting mad about it being cere

I don't see what that has to do with the post you made - this is not me saying "cere needs time to be assessed properly", this is me saying "I wonder which is the reason people leave when it rolls to cere"

It took metastation approximately a year and a half to be accepted by the playerbase, longer if you count the time it was being forced on servers while meta was about

I find it pretty funny how meta is popular on server 1 now, when for so long it got a lot of shit.
That said, meta is very similar to box in terms of overall map design, where as cere station is a SIGNIFICANT difference in design and playstyle.

So it will probably take about two-three years then

Oranges wrote:It took metastation approximately a year and a half to be accepted by the playerbase, longer if you count the time it was being forced on servers while meta was about

yeah, quite a few people said when map rotation was added that it was 1000% best for the health of the game but most of the people online would sperg out if it dared switch off of box

look at us now

Actually the point I was making that people complaining about meta vs box had very little ground to stand on, as they're fundamentally the same type of design - different layout etc, but still more or less the same.

Maps like cere and assstation are radically different designs, so their design flaws (real or perceived) can't be fixed without completely redoing the map.

Tl;dr The complaints against a map like meta is not comparable to (the main) complaints against cere.

lumipharon wrote:Actually the point I was making that people complaining about meta vs box had very little ground to stand on, as they're fundamentally the same type of design - different layout etc, but still more or less the same.

Maps like cere and assstation are radically different designs, so their design flaws (real or perceived) can't be fixed without completely redoing the map.

Tl;dr The complaints against a map like meta is not comparable to (the main) complaints against cere.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just thought it was interesting to see people bitch about map rotation and then love it later on

there were some more radical map designs that were hated though, it wasn't just meta and box

Oranges wrote:It took metastation approximately a year and a half to be accepted by the playerbase, longer if you count the time it was being forced on servers while meta was about

Oranges wrote:So it will probably take about two-three years then

The citrus is spreading fake news again.
Metastation was introduced and run on Badger server and playerbase dislike of Metastation was nonexistent, especially considering Sybil died (0 pop) and literally everyone was playing on Badger+Metastation for a week before drama happened and Badger was kill.
The people who didn't like it said that it was a lot bigger than Box and needed more players than Box did, and they were right. Then Metastation became the default map of an extremely low pop second server (~10), and it stayed that way for the aforementioned year(s).

Don't listen to his lies.

I thought we were talking about meta being accepted by the general playerbase when map rotation was added, not the map being first added to bagil

Badger, not bagil. My point was that it was accepted by the playerbase long before map rotation. Map rotation was necessary to effectively reintroduce it.

ohnopigeons wrote:Badger, not bagil. My point was that it was accepted by the playerbase long before map rotation. Map rotation was necessary to effectively reintroduce it.

you know what I mean, the ~other server~

and holy shit if you were around for when map rotation got merged you can't seriously think people were accepting of meta then, it was really really rough whenever it switched off of box for a little bit

It was rough, but it was rougher on some stations than others. Meta was on the lesser side of rough, whereas Disc and Asteroid (IIRC?) got it the worst.

I really don't think it was as bad as you make it out to be.

Well that's just like, your opinion maaan

ohnopigeons wrote:It was rough, but it was rougher on some stations than others. Meta was on the lesser side of rough, whereas Disc and Asteroid (IIRC?) got it the worst.

I really don't think it was as bad as you make it out to be.

The first week specifically was filled with a lot of "THIS ISN'T BOX TIME TO GRIFF" but I'm probably misremembering beyond that

I remember Meta's first few months being a little rough, but nothing compared to the shit-storm of map rotation and how some people treating it like the death of the game (i still don't even understand how the fuck some people managed to get to that conclusion).

Lumi and pigeons are right in that you really shouldn't be comparing this map's backlash to a map like Meta. Meta was a refreshing spin on the core concept that Boxstation had, Cere on the other-hand is a whole other beast entirely.

MMMiracles wrote:I remember Meta's first few months being a little rough, but nothing compared to the shit-storm of map rotation and how some people treating it like the death of the game (i still don't even understand how the fuck some people managed to get to that conclusion).

Lumi and pigeons are right in that you really shouldn't be comparing this map's backlash to a map like Meta. Meta was a refreshing spin on the core concept that Boxstation had, Cere on the other-hand is a whole other beast entirely.

I'm not trying to compare it in the sense of "stop whining because meta' I just think there's some interesting parallels