/tg/Station 13

Brethren, people generally talk about botany and the like such as toxins but there is very little talk of xenobiology.
First off, Xenobiology is self sufficient. They can make their own plasma, needing at most radium for a single slime reaction.
Second off, Xenobiology has both sentience potions and golems.
Third, Xenobiology is capable of turning people into changelings.
Fourth, Xenobiology is primarily focused on rng (fuck that).
Fifth, Xenobiology has time-stop, along with the capability to transform people into plasmamen via smoke while stunning them at the same time, or foam, all using some black and orange slimes and a carton of milk. in fact, milk can be created with silver slimes(along with roburgers and gatfruit) so they do not need to leave their department for milk.
Sixth, with gold slimes and magicarp Xenobiology is perfectly capable of ridiculous feats similar to those of wizards or traitors, by making statues sentient or transforming something sentient into a syndicate cyborg. They are even capable of using bolts of door creation to create doors made of minerals, allowing science to generate their own minerals. They are even capable of making their own minibombs and emps more or less. Their speed and fire resistance potions are also ridiculous, allowing them to fireproof their own jumpsuit (which is also one of the only ways they help others, as it allows them to assist miners who wish to be resistant to ash storms) or make galoshes not slow users down, making them similar to non slip shoes. They are also capable of using those potions on a scooter to go as fast as possible, which chemistry can only do with downsides and temporarily. They are also capable of replacing the floor tiles with ones that slow those who walk on it, or filling a pest spray bottle with a toxin that will stun those hit and transform into a shadowperson, while they can make themselves an android or a skeleton or a podperson or similar. They can also use blueprints (of which they can make single use ones themself) to rename areas to "xenobiology" and griff by placing slimes in those areas, all the while they are capable of becoming a ling-android with a golem army which also contains syndicate cyborgs, which is designed purely with rng, not skill, even possibly giving themself Sno***ake wings.(F*cking Sno***akes) Although some things, such as species transformation, are interesting, I feel it is a bit over-the-top, well, more than a bit.

Rock if you want people to take you seriously use some fucking punctuation. Jesus christ you didnt used to be like this what happened?

Wyzack wrote:Rock if you want people to take you seriously use some fucking punctuation. Jesus christ you didnt used to be like this what happened?

He realized the less coherent he is the more attention he gets

Fixed typos

its funny how applicable the ripped pants episode of spongebob is to so many internet personas

don't take xenobiology away from me

Holy shit sawrge saw that too
No really i unironically think xenobio is op fam
Ill revise this later

There is a small dedicated group of people for every job that will whine about it until it gets destroyed and everyone just goes back to using tasers on each other.

I voted no, for a couple of reasons.

Firstly slimes (and or effects) which you are directly mentioning can be changed, or removed from xenobio completely. The functioning of xenobio itself runs at a slight inefficiency because it relies on slimes to breed.

Gathering your own plasma is fine *because its also supports slime self sufficiency as plasma & greyslime makes a new slime*, as is using metal slimes to harvest metal & plasteel and typically only a few entries is made to cause intentional harm

- Subject of mass changing people into plasmapeople is to just blacklist air/skin contact injestion of the chemical when added to smoke

- Much of the complaints of slimes is because the content it spawns isn't regulated enough AKA roburgers but you might end up blowing shittons of slime cores to get there taking considerable time.

Secondly Xenobio only has said slimes, not even alternative test subjects and i feel giving xenobio MORE things (*cough, spider/alternative mob xenobiology) other than heavy emphasis on slimes so its more of a juggling act to farm slimes & another creature would make things beter.

Many of the higher tier slime reactions such as gold slimes don't need to exist frankly if the mobs/effects that they spawn are poorly designed (AKA see list below)

- Spiders (worse when given intelligence and orders to breed more spiders, already got ideas on how to change that in #1 & #2)
- Headslugs (just sterilise them or have non-datum headslugs turn into another creature)
- Statues
- Non base magi-carp
- Zombies (we have other sources of romerol other than zombie meat/infection)

if you nerf xenobiology i will only play head of security for a year straight and execute everyone i can

Bluespace wrote:if you nerf xenobiology i will only play head of security for a year straight and execute everyone i can

we already have like 5 other people that do this

Rock please do stop you don't even play the jobs

Also the shuttle is called before you get to do 3/4 of the stuff you mention

On that note, i always seem to get revs, wizard, ops and blob when i play xenobio

Kor wrote:There is a small dedicated group of people for every job that will whine about it until it gets destroyed and everyone just goes back to using tasers on each other.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Alright I remastered this it is perfect and bud when I'm not an assistant I'm probably a scientist in xenobio because xeno is bullllshiiiiit but fun I just need to remind everyone that just because it isn't hip to hate something doesn't mean it has no problems you will not sway my opinions on xenobiology this day

At least fwoosh uses bullet points.

my issue with xenobio is that it usually leads to annoying headache ahelps, but calling it OP? I dunno

Qbopper wrote:my issue with xenobio is that it usually leads to annoying headache ahelps, but calling it OP? I dunno

Its how players want to USE the tools that xenobio gives them rather than xenobio being OP in terms of production. The title should be...

"Certain slime effects are unbalanced" with a analysis of what the slimes do and what negative things occur in contrast to intended and antag purpose, because really he's bitching about people farming slimes and that just so happens to be the sole activity of xenobio.

fwoosh I don't even understand what you are saying

confused rock wrote:fwoosh I don't even understand what you are saying

of all people

confused rock wrote:fwoosh I don't even understand what you are saying

Remove slimes and there isn't a problem, slime reactions are the only thing you are talking about and its the only thing xenobio interacts with and probably xenobio should go get itself some more depth because its kind of shitty and linear leading up to the terrible things you describe from good intentions.

What do you do in xenobio = Farm slimes all the time (that's it, of course when you put the slimes behind the wall you're only stalling access to those slime cores)

If xenobio was more organic and had more depth, people who are using it would be more focused on what they were doing (usually people have a objective to do something and do it, if you want golems you focus on admantium slimes etc, with other things to do beside slimes you wont see slimes that often)

fwoosh is right, he's saying that xenobio needs to be more indepth and interesting so that xenobiologists are focused on farming slimes and not using slime effects to grief the station.

Ah, from what I could tell he was saying I was complaining about how easy it is to get a fuckload of slimes and I did not even touch on specific reactions.
I feel that everything slimes can do with no help, primarily becoming a ling and fucking infinite golem and syndieborg slaves (or potato slaves if you want cuz you have transformation) are just fuckin bullshit imo

oranges wrote:fwoosh is right, he's saying that xenobio needs to be more indepth and interesting so that xenobiologists are focused on farming slimes and not using slime effects to grief the station.

Are you fucking kidding.


Do you know how long it takes to get changeling? One round it took me 50 minutes to get changeling and guess what shuttle was 3 minutes from arriving. It is in depth enough and it takes awhile to breed shit unless you get lucky

Long enough for you to actually try, i mean if you don't try and just happen to get gold slimes early good for you but its nothing you should have nessecarily gotten unless you really want it.

You're also dicing with RNG as throughout multiple spamming (knocking off estimated 20 mins of gold slime rerolling since it takes 4-5 mins to complete 1 breeding cycle and feed more monkeys, xenobio scientists lately have gotten so lazy they dont segregate slimes from the pens anymore) of slime effects.

But there's literally nothing else for you to be doing in that job role, especially if you're on a inevitable path to getting your griefing tools. Sometimes sooner than later.

Bombadil wrote:

oranges wrote:fwoosh is right, he's saying that xenobio needs to be more indepth and interesting so that xenobiologists are focused on farming slimes and not using slime effects to grief the station.

Are you fucking kidding.


Do you know how long it takes to get changeling? One round it took me 50 minutes to get changeling and guess what shuttle was 3 minutes from arriving. It is in depth enough and it takes awhile to breed shit unless you get lucky

Putting the slimes together and leaving them alone for two minutes until they poop out new slimes is not deep.

You’ve confused time consuming with deep, which is a common mistake.

Make colors into a minigame somehow.
Tada.

oranges wrote:

Bombadil wrote:

oranges wrote:fwoosh is right, he's saying that xenobio needs to be more indepth and interesting so that xenobiologists are focused on farming slimes and not using slime effects to grief the station.

Are you fucking kidding.


Do you know how long it takes to get changeling? One round it took me 50 minutes to get changeling and guess what shuttle was 3 minutes from arriving. It is in depth enough and it takes awhile to breed shit unless you get lucky

Putting the slimes together and leaving them alone for two minutes until they poop out new slimes is not deep.

You’ve confused time consuming with deep, which is a common mistake.

I use slime mutagens to try and get the slimes i'm looking for and use mutation reducers to keep them as the type I want. How can we make it more in-depth do you think? Should we have to inject them or something? We had that at one point. I mean really its one of the most rng and time based jobs and you can get fucked hard.

Bluespace wrote:Make colors into a minigame somehow.
Tada.

But it fucking is it is a minigame you have to breed them through lineage lines to get the colors you want. Unless we start having them breed by merging color slimes.

Thats like saying chemistry is a minigame
Rng is SHIT

>Combining colors to get new slime colors instead of RNG

YES.

Have xenobio start with a red, blue and yellow slime, and change slime evolution so that just feeding the slimes has an extremely low (10%?) chance of giving a new color unless the slimes are constantly dosed with slime mutation toxin from the red extracts, whereupon it goes up to the usual 33% or so. The new method will involve combining slime colors to produce new colors, as described by the chart below.

In order for a slime to combine with another slime, both must be large and they both must be near each other. The slimes will automatically seek each other out and combine, promptly overcoming their maximum size and bursting into four newly colored slimes.

nerf their DNA manipulator

Bluespace wrote:Make colors into a minigame somehow.
Tada.

Bob Ross slime boss

Only issue with that is changing fundamentally how slimes work to accommodate sexual reproduction, as the current reasoning is that they are basically giant single cell organisms that feed then split off, and if you know anything about science that's the intended result of cellular creatures and evolution is practically a mistake for cells.

- I mean without getting too deep, without sexual reproduction & passing/mixing two genes together the typical inheritance of evolution cannot occur, our slimes don't evolve as much as we play natural selection with what 'mistakes' occur.

- If we can't decide on how to mix slime colours because slimes are incompatible as a species there are always other options of things to inhibit xenobio with, however it will have to sexually reproduce (which isn't hard since the current code is just shyness and whether people are a certain distance away or out of a direct line of sight, close the shutters to give creatures privacy if they need it)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokaryote#DNA_transfer
Might be worth reading.

FantasticFwoosh wrote: Bob Ross slime boss

fund it if only to make this a thing

ShadowDimentio wrote:>Combining colors to get new slime colors instead of RNG

YES.

Have xenobio start with a red, blue and yellow slime, and change slime evolution so that just feeding the slimes has an extremely low (10%?) chance of giving a new color unless the slimes are constantly dosed with slime mutation toxin from the red extracts, whereupon it goes up to the usual 33% or so. The new method will involve combining slime colors to produce new colors, as described by the chart below.

In order for a slime to combine with another slime, both must be large and they both must be near each other. The slimes will automatically seek each other out and combine, promptly overcoming their maximum size and bursting into four newly colored slimes.

Spoiler:

Red + Yellow = Orange
Yellow + Blue = Green
Blue + Red = Purple
Red + Blue + Yellow = White
Orange + Green + Purple = Black
White + Black = Grey
Grey + White = Metal
Metal + White = Silver
Silver + Yellow = Pyrite
Metal + Pyrite = Gold
Gold + Cerulean = Adamantine
Purple + Black = Dark Purple
Grey + Black = Sepia
Blue + Black = Dark Blue
Dark Blue + Gray = Cerulean
Red + White = Pink
Pink + Gray = Light Pink
Black + Metal = Oil

But this is still rng then you bastard

I don't understand this push to no RNG when that literally means just doing the meta strat each round.

Its more of a rebalancing of the requirements of breeding slimes

Grey slime wouldn't be a LUCA (Last known Universally Common Ancestor), and the base slime effects between the three binary colors will warrant that you can zip from the beginning to the end of the slime tree quicker by inheritance and not spend so much time on it, when you have other xenobio things to be doing (as soon as those are supplied) and push the compatible slimes who are going to breed into the same pens via micromanagement.

- Obviously rip out a lot of slime effects and apply rebalances if you're going to give blue/green and red slimes off the bat

- How about when two mature slimes meet, in order to breed they merge into 1 color slime then split so red and blue slimes merge & become purple then split into babbie purple slimes with a 10% RNG chance of one of those babbies being a different color.

- We can't escape RNG but we can make the system less based fully on RNG and more focused on the methodical tree, right now there are trees of slime progressions but the RNG means that sometimes slimes jump from the beginning (metal slimes etc) all the way to the end (breeding a black/gold/oil slime)

Or we could do nothing

Aight every round i get traitor im gonna lock myself in xeno toll I can get golems

Just stopping in to remind everyone that sepia slime timestop is stronger than wizard timestop.

Do it, it's way more fun than the usual murderbone


cedarbridge, it's severely delayed which kinda takes the strong out of it

confused rock wrote:Aight every round i get traitor im gonna lock myself in xeno toll I can get golems

Oh no. A traitor has used their time to bring ghosts back into the round, as antagonists.

I legit don't see a downside to that. Maybe I just support things that keep ghost chat empty.

I love fucking around in xenobio all round while traitors have slaughtered the whole crew and releasing the spidertide for holy vengeance. Nothing beats the spidertide. Nothing.

ShadowDimentio wrote:I love fucking around in xenobio all round while traitors have slaughtered the whole crew and releasing the spidertide for holy vengeance. Nothing beats the spidertide. Nothing.

Yes as long as they don't reproduce

cedarbridge wrote:Just stopping in to remind everyone that sepia slime timestop is stronger than wizard timestop.

are you just gonna whinge or are you gonna do something about that?

We have open code for reason, shoot out a sepia slime nerf and odds are nobody will care enough and you can have a constructive arguement about it. If you dislike slime effects just suggest change.

Armhulen wrote:Or we could do nothing

Ignorance/Apathy in the hopes somebody else does it out of self interest ("just while they were looking in that area) isn't a very constructive way to address persistent problems or flaws.

oranges wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Just stopping in to remind everyone that sepia slime timestop is stronger than wizard timestop.

are you just gonna whinge or are you gonna do something about that?

Whinging doesn't require me to dig through the code and interpret how it works to change it.

cedarbridge wrote:

oranges wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Just stopping in to remind everyone that sepia slime timestop is stronger than wizard timestop.

are you just gonna whinge or are you gonna do something about that?

Whinging doesn't require me to dig through the code and interpret how it works to change it.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/25699
You lazy piece of shit.

Haevacht wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:

oranges wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Just stopping in to remind everyone that sepia slime timestop is stronger than wizard timestop.

are you just gonna whinge or are you gonna do something about that?

Whinging doesn't require me to dig through the code and interpret how it works to change it.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/25699
You lazy piece of shit.

This is the true form of my anti-bikeshed powers.